FWIW, I think over a half a dozen of the Harvard men's team have represented the USA or another country at the youth level.

Nearly a dozen of them list some sort of high academic honor, such as a National Merit Scholar or an AP Scholar award.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best players are picking the best academic schools which is why Stanford, Duke etc do so well. The best players are not picking Alabama.

Then why aren't the Ivy's all top ten soccer programs? They are also D1.

The Ivy sport may be D1, but the Ivys do not give out athletic scholarships. Only need-based aid like all other students.

The academic index is also an obstacle for a lot of players. If you are a top, top recruit, Ivy admission standards aren't too tough. If you have a decent GPA, you can get in with a 1200 or so SAT. But that only applies to the top one or two players on a team. The others will need significantly higher scores to ensure that the team average meets the established threshold. Stanford has a minimum of 1300 for all players. For Duke and a lot of other top soccer schools, an average student will have no problem getting in.

My experience with several kids is not consistent with what you are saying. Even a top, top player (assume Caucasian for this discussion) with a "decent" GPA and more than one C is not getting into an Ivy or Duke for that matter on soccer. This is especially problematic for kids at tough private schools, where grades are not inflated like at many public schools. Know a player who was tops in the DMV with a 3.3 at a strong private school and an ACT at the top of the bottom quartile of admitted students. Ivy coach got this player in, but it was a struggle and he had to find a couple "brilliant bench players" to hit the AI number. Also know of a situation at Duke where a kid in another sport got surprised by Duke admissions who went against what the coach had represented to the kid. Player had to scramble.

I think we may be talking about different levels of players (the original post talked about the "best" players). You can be an outstanding player for this region, but only end up as number 15 or 20 on Duke's recruit list. Schools like Duke and Stanford compete for the best players in the country (or the best who opt not to go pro), many of them former youth national players. Many of their top recruits don't even have decent GPAs or test scores. Stanford is much stricter and their admissions committee is not as deferential to coach's requests. Ivies frequently have to resort to the brilliant bench player deals you mention to get really talented soccer players, which is why they are a sweet spot for good, but not outstanding, players who are outstanding students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best players are picking the best academic schools which is why Stanford, Duke etc do so well. The best players are not picking Alabama.

Then why aren't the Ivy's all top ten soccer programs? They are also D1.

We have wondered the same thing. We are finding Ivy recruiting to be a bit of a black box even compared to peer academic schools..…..

The Ivies (not Ivy's) can't necessarily get the best soccer players because their athletes also have to meet very high academic standards. The best soccer recruits might not be good enough academically for an Ivy. Plus, the Ivies compromise on standards for athletes less than their "peer" academic schools (e.g., Stanford, Duke) where sports are simply more important.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best players are picking the best academic schools which is why Stanford, Duke etc do so well. The best players are not picking Alabama.

Then why aren't the Ivy's all top ten soccer programs? They are also D1.

The Ivy sport may be D1, but the Ivys do not give out athletic scholarships. Only need-based aid like all other students.

The academic index is also an obstacle for a lot of players. If you are a top, top recruit, Ivy admission standards aren't too tough. If you have a decent GPA, you can get in with a 1200 or so SAT. But that only applies to the top one or two players on a team. The others will need significantly higher scores to ensure that the team average meets the established threshold. Stanford has a minimum of 1300 for all players. For Duke and a lot of other top soccer schools, an average student will have no problem getting in.

My experience with several kids is not consistent with what you are saying. Even a top, top player (assume Caucasian for this discussion) with a "decent" GPA and more than one C is not getting into an Ivy or Duke for that matter on soccer. This is especially problematic for kids at tough private schools, where grades are not inflated like at many public schools. Know a player who was tops in the DMV with a 3.3 at a strong private school and an ACT at the top of the bottom quartile of admitted students. Ivy coach got this player in, but it was a struggle and he had to find a couple "brilliant bench players" to hit the AI number. Also know of a situation at Duke where a kid in another sport got surprised by Duke admissions who went against what the coach had represented to the kid. Player had to scramble.

Sorry -- forgot to add the "regrets" stuff.

As a parent -- I probably do not get the whole story. I know sophomore year was tough from a soccer standpoint. She only played in 11 games and was concerned about where she stood moving forward. As far as friendships -- I think she did as well there as my other kids who did not play a sport in college. I suppose she lucked out that the girls her year and the years around her were pretty nice. She played a lot her freshman year, but never really spoke to Seniors of Juniors off the field. Not that they were mean to her and other freshman -- but they were doing other things. Several of her friends playing at other schools did not have the same relationships with teammates though. That is tough when you are with those folks all of the time.

Now -- having that on her resume is a help certainly. Everyone wants to talk about it. And, there is no doubt that it helped her personally mature. So yes -- good experience for her overall.

Anonymous wrote:To the poster with the detailed post related to her daughter -- thank you -- very helpful. One thing we are discovering is how easy it could be for an athlete to get boxed out of certain majors/paths at certain schools. Did your daughter play Div 1 all four years? Any regrets?

She did play 4 years, as did 4 of the 7 girls that she started out with. 1 left due to injury. 2 basically quit as they were getting no playing time through their sophomore year. It is a mountain of work and not that much fun if you do not end up playing. Obviously the coaches are aware of that, and will play kids if they are healthy and up to speed. But, it depends a lot on who is in front of you, and how open and able are you to playing different positions. Be open. A spot can open up because a kid is sick or hurt and you can get your foot in the door.

Towards that end, it would not hurt to practice/play some other positions in club or high school That is something that club coaches in particular could really do better to help kids out - move them around the field even if just in practice. Some familiarity with other positions would not be a bad thing.

Paying attention to who else is potentially "in front of you" on the prospective college roster is something I think that most kids/parents should pay more attention to when they were in the midst of the recruiting process. It is obviously much more difficult with women's soccer than football or basketball -- the reporting of where kids are considering is just not out there. Still you can be keeping track of who is being recruited at schools you are interested in by the rosters if you lack other resources. (Do not expect a coach to tell you) If coach recruits a bunch of defenders the year before your kid comes along, who is also a defender -- is she going to beat them out for playing time or not? Would she be better off looking at a school where the D is mostly Jrs. and Srs when she is a Jr. in high school? And, what is going on with scholarships? Women's sides get 14 to divide up. Is your kid getting a decent slice of the scholarship pie or not?

As an another aside -- a kid who can play and also get a substantial academic scholarship is a huge help to a coach to make up a very nice financial package overall. Of course, you have to qualify for those academic scholarships, but a smart kid (not unusual with women's soccer) also being a good player can get you a full ride. If your kid is in the mix there academically be absolutely sure you are looking at the requirements for getting academic scholarship money. Hint: Alot of those have testing/meeting requirements early in your kid's senior year with applications due before that. Do not miss out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best players are picking the best academic schools which is why Stanford, Duke etc do so well. The best players are not picking Alabama.

Then why aren't the Ivy's all top ten soccer programs? They are also D1.

The Ivy sport may be D1, but the Ivys do not give out athletic scholarships. Only need-based aid like all other students.

The academic index is also an obstacle for a lot of players. If you are a top, top recruit, Ivy admission standards aren't too tough. If you have a decent GPA, you can get in with a 1200 or so SAT. But that only applies to the top one or two players on a team. The others will need significantly higher scores to ensure that the team average meets the established threshold. Stanford has a minimum of 1300 for all players. For Duke and a lot of other top soccer schools, an average student will have no problem getting in.

When my DS was looking at colleges, he attended a number of camps. Every camp had a parent meeting and in some way the discussion of academics and the coaches philosophy came up. Every coach was up front about about you pick your major to allow you to play, and you better take care of your school work in a way it doesn't interfere with me playing you. Except one. At a top 20, non Ivy, D3. This coach stated that he knew kids where coming to get an education and the sport, while important, wasn't the priority. With no scholarships it's easier to say I guess, but it was also eye opening. We reached out to current players who confirmed this was actually how he coached. Luckily it was DS favorite school and this just sealed the deal.

Also another way of looking at this, make sure whatever school you go to play at, you would stay at if you got injured.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best players are picking the best academic schools which is why Stanford, Duke etc do so well. The best players are not picking Alabama.

Then why aren't the Ivy's all top ten soccer programs? They are also D1.

The Ivy sport may be D1, but the Ivys do not give out athletic scholarships. Only need-based aid like all other students.

Anonymous wrote:The best players are picking the best academic schools which is why Stanford, Duke etc do so well. The best players are not picking Alabama.

Not really. Kids go where they are comfortable, where they think they can do well, and where they can find a major that potentially appeals to them. And, being relatively close to home is very often a big deal. Most kids, including athletes, typically go somewhere relatively close to their home. Also, kids often go where they think they can play right away. You can be in the national team pool and have potential to go to a lot of schools, but if you perceive your position to be "taken" by another good player at school X -- you will likely go elsewhere.

Using the rooster test: Duke has 3 upcoming seniors down from 8 when that class of players were freshman. Stanford is better with 5 of 6 freshman still around as seniors on the 2018 (most recent) team. Of the 29 women on the Stanford roster in 2018 16 were CA high school grads.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best players are picking the best academic schools which is why Stanford, Duke etc do so well. The best players are not picking Alabama.

Then why aren't the Ivy's all top ten soccer programs? They are also D1.

We have wondered the same thing. We are finding Ivy recruiting to be a bit of a black box even compared to peer academic schools..…..

To the poster with the detailed post related to her daughter -- thank you -- very helpful. One thing we are discovering is how easy it could be for an athlete to get boxed out of certain majors/paths at certain schools. Did your daughter play Div 1 all four years? Any regrets?

Anonymous wrote:The best players are picking the best academic schools which is why Stanford, Duke etc do so well. The best players are not picking Alabama.

Then why aren't the Ivy's all top ten soccer programs? They are also D1.

The best players are picking the best academic schools which is why Stanford, Duke etc do so well. The best players are not picking Alabama.

^^^^ PP

Thanks, this was a very helpful read. Thanks for sharing.