Anonymous
Post 06/18/2019 18:17     Subject: Re:504s give you an unfair advantage
Anonymous wrote:I found the racial disparity shocking because you either believe the 504's are legitimate and minority students are identified in a manner that is way out of bounds to not raise equity concerns or there are some people using 504's to game the system.

I think the answer is probably both for fwiw.


This.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2019 18:04     Subject: Re:504s give you an unfair advantage
Anonymous wrote:Using extra time, students with 504s — and therefore less severe disabilities — performed better than the median test-taker, while students with more severe disabilities performed worse.

Shocking... Not!


More erroneous information! It isn't always true that individuals with 504 plans have less severe disabilities. Accross the country school systems are refusing to find students eligible for IEPs and are giving students with severe disabilities 504 plans. There is more legal protection for a student with an IEP. School systems don't like that.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2019 17:49     Subject: 504s give you an unfair advantage
Anonymous wrote:Not every student with a 504 is automatically afforded accommodations on the SAT or ACT. And if they do receive accommodations on one or both of these tests, it is often quite different than what they have in their 504 plan.

Perhaps the OP and the NYTimes don't understand this, but students with disabilities do.





The NY Times Upshot is a pretty reliable source & it seems like some affluent kids know what's up too.

https://newtriernews.org/news/2018/05/11/testing-accommodations-four-times-national-average/
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2019 15:05     Subject: 504s give you an unfair advantage
Not every student with a 504 is automatically afforded accommodations on the SAT or ACT. And if they do receive accommodations on one or both of these tests, it is often quite different than what they have in their 504 plan.

Perhaps the OP and the NYTimes don't understand this, but students with disabilities do.



Anonymous
Post 06/18/2019 13:58     Subject: 504s give you an unfair advantage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/17/upshot/nyc-schools-shsat-504.html

Second chart in this article- it gives an advantage across all races. Want to show this every parent who santimoniously claims they wish their kid didn’t need a 504 for ACT/SAT.
My DC received 50% extra time along with a reader and a scribe. It just takes longer to take a test with a reader and a scribe. He was ina room alone with his reader/scribe. No sanctimony about it. I think most people would prefer their children not to have disabilities, perhaps you are the exception.


If someone is using a reader and a scribe the test is no longer testing reading comprehension and written expression but listening comprehension and oral expression. It fundamentally alters the test. If every student were tested almost all of them could be diagnosed with some disability that a crafty psychologist could write up as needing extra time. If the psychologist didn't, they wouldn't get new referrals. All they have to do is continue giving tests until something inevitably will be lower because everyone has strength and weaknesses.

Clearly, Asian families who have kids who struggle make them work harder 365 days a year while white students get their kids diagnosed with something to get extra time.


My Aisian child has 504 with extra time because he needs it. Not a matter of how hard he could or does work
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2019 13:51     Subject: 504s give you an unfair advantage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/17/upshot/nyc-schools-shsat-504.html

Second chart in this article- it gives an advantage across all races. Want to show this every parent who santimoniously claims they wish their kid didn’t need a 504 for ACT/SAT.


Are you that afraid that your darling Larla can't compete against a kid with a documented learning disability?


+1 Also, please remember the disproportionate use of 504s by whites the next time someone complains about Asians gaming the system because they send their kids to Saturday test prep.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2019 13:50     Subject: Re:504s give you an unfair advantage
Using extra time, students with 504s — and therefore less severe disabilities — performed better than the median test-taker, while students with more severe disabilities performed worse.

Shocking... Not!
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2019 13:50     Subject: Re:504s give you an unfair advantage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I found the racial disparity shocking because you either believe the 504's are legitimate and minority students are identified in a manner that is way out of bounds to not raise equity concerns or there are some people using 504's to game the system.

I think the answer is probably both for fwiw.


There was a time that the majority of students who were found eligible for special ed were minorities. This caused a backlash and was viewed as discriminatory. Being identified as haveing a learning or intellectual disability back then was a sure way to exlude a student and do offer them less. Schools were encouraged not to find minority children eligible. There was a lot of talk about the stigma of special ed and the associated problems with the labels. These views are still fairly pervasive in the aa community.


I think you have a point, but it seems as though things have swung in the opposite direction so minority students are being under-identified (and not getting services) while more white students are being identified and getting more services. It's like the inverse of the previous problem and says something about educational equity.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2019 13:46     Subject: 504s give you an unfair advantage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/17/upshot/nyc-schools-shsat-504.html

Second chart in this article- it gives an advantage across all races. Want to show this every parent who santimoniously claims they wish their kid didn’t need a 504 for ACT/SAT.
My DC received 50% extra time along with a reader and a scribe. It just takes longer to take a test with a reader and a scribe. He was ina room alone with his reader/scribe. No sanctimony about it. I think most people would prefer their children not to have disabilities, perhaps you are the exception.


If someone is using a reader and a scribe the test is no longer testing reading comprehension and written expression but listening comprehension and oral expression. It fundamentally alters the test. If every student were tested almost all of them could be diagnosed with some disability that a crafty psychologist could write up as needing extra time. If the psychologist didn't, they wouldn't get new referrals. All they have to do is continue giving tests until something inevitably will be lower because everyone has strength and weaknesses.

Clearly, Asian families who have kids who struggle make them work harder 365 days a year while white students get their kids diagnosed with something to get extra time.


You clearly don't understand the testing for disabilities and ... I know a ton of Asian families with kids with LDs and get 504/IEP/etc.

Who cares if the test is "fundamentally altered"... these kids use a text to speech program so it is testing how they learn.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2019 13:41     Subject: 504s give you an unfair advantage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/17/upshot/nyc-schools-shsat-504.html

Second chart in this article- it gives an advantage across all races. Want to show this every parent who santimoniously claims they wish their kid didn’t need a 504 for ACT/SAT.
My DC received 50% extra time along with a reader and a scribe. It just takes longer to take a test with a reader and a scribe. He was ina room alone with his reader/scribe. No sanctimony about it. I think most people would prefer their children not to have disabilities, perhaps you are the exception.


If someone is using a reader and a scribe the test is no longer testing reading comprehension and written expression but listening comprehension and oral expression. It fundamentally alters the test. If every student were tested almost all of them could be diagnosed with some disability that a crafty psychologist could write up as needing extra time. If the psychologist didn't, they wouldn't get new referrals. All they have to do is continue giving tests until something inevitably will be lower because everyone has strength and weaknesses.

Clearly, Asian families who have kids who struggle make them work harder 365 days a year while white students get their kids diagnosed with something to get extra time.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2019 13:41     Subject: 504s give you an unfair advantage
Another thing to think about OP is that kids who get 504 are often highly gifted, with some learning challenges. For example a lot of kids with high verbal or performance IQs have slow processing speed as measured by neuropsych tests. So the ones who qualify for 504 are generally high functioning students who may have certain strengths but may need accommodations to level the playing field vis a vis their challenges, with the main accommodations being extended time. Hence the term twice exceptional (2E). Kids who are exceptional in terms of ability without any special challenges will do very well on the tests regardless.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2019 13:39     Subject: Re:504s give you an unfair advantage
Anonymous wrote:I found the racial disparity shocking because you either believe the 504's are legitimate and minority students are identified in a manner that is way out of bounds to not raise equity concerns or there are some people using 504's to game the system.

I think the answer is probably both for fwiw.


There was a time that the majority of students who were found eligible for special ed were minorities. This caused a backlash and was viewed as discriminatory. Being identified as haveing a learning or intellectual disability back then was a sure way to exlude a student and do offer them less. Schools were encouraged not to find minority children eligible. There was a lot of talk about the stigma of special ed and the associated problems with the labels. These views are still fairly pervasive in the aa community.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2019 13:35     Subject: 504s give you an unfair advantage
You do realize OP that your child without special needs has an advantage in classes and possibly extracurriculars, work, and social skills over at least some kids with SN (depending on their needs). Are you going to complain about your child's unfair advantages in life?
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2019 13:30     Subject: 504s give you an unfair advantage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/17/upshot/nyc-schools-shsat-504.html

Second chart in this article- it gives an advantage across all races. Want to show this every parent who santimoniously claims they wish their kid didn’t need a 504 for ACT/SAT.
My DC received 50% extra time along with a reader and a scribe. It just takes longer to take a test with a reader and a scribe. He was ina room alone with his reader/scribe. No sanctimony about it. I think most people would prefer their children not to have disabilities, perhaps you are the exception.


If someone is using a reader and a scribe the test is no longer testing reading comprehension and written expression but listening comprehension and oral expression. It fundamentally alters the test. If every student were tested almost all of them could be diagnosed with some disability that a crafty psychologist could write up as needing extra time. If the psychologist didn't, they wouldn't get new referrals. All they have to do is continue giving tests until something inevitably will be lower because everyone has strength and weaknesses.

Clearly, Asian families who have kids who struggle make them work harder 365 days a year while white students get their kids diagnosed with something to get extra time.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2019 13:29     Subject: Re:504s give you an unfair advantage
I found the racial disparity shocking because you either believe the 504's are legitimate and minority students are identified in a manner that is way out of bounds to not raise equity concerns or there are some people using 504's to game the system.

I think the answer is probably both for fwiw.