Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a marriage counselor and I have been asked in sessions to help create a job list, which, to your point OP, I refused to do.

Generally I find that when it has devolved into constant bickering about chores and it’s really about scorekeeping and resentment. There is no job list that will deal with that task. There are many things that we do for our partners that cannot be placed on a list. Do you smile when they walk into the room and ask them how their day is? Do you put aside the phone during dinner and ask your partner questions? Do you tell her she looks beautiful or compliment his new haircut? That’s what a relationship is, it’s about connecting. When couples aren’t connecting on that level that’s when they become resentful and scorekeeping of chores. You have to manage the issues in the relationship which are the root.

You must have couples though where one doesn't see or comprehend the extent that the other one does at home.

I see this issue all the time on here (usually yes the woman is the one doing all the work but not always).

I think if somebody needs validation about the work that they are doing it can be one of two things: the first is that you could be married to an ungrateful person. The second is that if you require a lot of validation it’s because you have unfulfilled needs that cannot be filled by your partner. I generally find it’s the latter, that there isn’t enough thank you and validation to get rid of the resentment you feel that you are doing a lot of the household tasks.And that doesn’t have anything to do with your partner, it has to do with a lifelong feeling of not being appreciated.

Also, I see couples where the wife is complaining that the husband travels too much for work or works too many hours.

We all have to be responsible for our own happiness. If you think your partner is going to “make you happy “you will be in for a lifetime of disappointment. They can add to your happiness, they cannot make you happy.

I did for a while need a whole bunch of validation because my husband *refused* to say thank you for things he thought just needed to get done. Yes, they NEEDED to be done, and I was doing them. But hearing "thank you for making dinner" actually was rather nicer than complaints about what I made. For a while I was spewing list of what I'd done over the day in the house (and I'm not a full time SAH BTW) like I vacuumed! I washed the bathrooms! I made bread! in hopes to elicit some sort of validation that my efforts was worthwhile. But I'd get crickets.

So, maybe I had unfulfilled needs that couldn't be filled by my partner. Maybe I had a metric ton of resentment. Maybe I just needed to hear thank you for all you do once in a while (and yes, I did and still do thank him for the things that just need doing ... like taking out the trash and laundry, etc. It isn't that he doesn't do those things). I'm sure if somebody else took the dog out and clean up her vomit he'd say thank you to them. I just think I deserve the same treatment.

FWIW, I think most mothers are under appreciated until kids get older and realize everything their moms did for them. And my husband did start saying thank you when I did something. I think it didn't come naturally to him, but he made the effort, and I appreciate that.

LOL. One of the first responses to a marriage issue on DCUM is to "seek counseling". A counselor comes on here, gives advice but apparently it's not what the harpies want to hear. "YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY A WOMAN HATING MISOGYNIST TRYING TO TAKE WOMEN BACK TO 1955"

GTFOH

18.) A good wife always knows her place.

Anonymous wrote:I am a marriage counselor and I have been asked in sessions to help create a job list, which, to your point OP, I refused to do.

Generally I find that when it has devolved into constant bickering about chores and it’s really about scorekeeping and resentment. There is no job list that will deal with that task. There are many things that we do for our partners that cannot be placed on a list. Do you smile when they walk into the room and ask them how their day is? Do you put aside the phone during dinner and ask your partner questions? Do you tell her she looks beautiful or compliment his new haircut? That’s what a relationship is, it’s about connecting. When couples aren’t connecting on that level that’s when they become resentful and scorekeeping of chores. You have to manage the issues in the relationship which are the root.

Dear Mr. Counselor.. because you MUST be a guy judging from what to write. I sense that you not only do not know the first thing what is going in marriages but you are also somewhat stuck in the bygone ear. It feels that your superficial view of the marriage is take straight from the Good House Wife's Guide 1955. Point 9 probably is where your thought fits best... I think that any wife will adore the husband household contribution in the form of a warm smile, hair complement and putting away phone even if only for a minute during the dinner, because after exhausting day of childcare, and house chores this is all that he needs to do to keep the wife happy!

You forgot to give post the source! so here, I'll do it for you
1955 ‘Good House Wife’s Guide’
https://www.littlethings.com/1950s-good-housewife-guide

1.) Have dinner ready. Plan ahead, even the night before, to have a delicious meal ready, on time for his return. This is a way of letting him know that you have been thinking about him and are concerned about his needs.
2.) Most men are hungry when they come home and the prospect of a good meal (especially his favorite dish) is part of the warm welcome needed.
3.) Prepare yourself. Take 15 minutes to rest so you’ll be refreshed when he arrives. Touch up your makeup, put a ribbon in your hair and be fresh-looking. He has just been with a lot of work-weary people.
4.) Be a little gay and a little more interesting for him. His boring day may need a lift and one of your duties is to provide it.
5.) Clear away the clutter. Make one last trip through the main part of the house just before your husband arrives. Gather up schoolbooks, toys, paper, etc. and then run a dust cloth over the tables.
6.) Over the cooler months of the year you should prepare and light a fire for him to unwind by. Your husband will feel he has reached a haven of rest and order, and it will give you a lift too. After all, catering for his comfort will provide you with immense personal satisfaction.
7.) Prepare the children. Take a few minutes to wash the children’s hands and faces (if they are small), comb their hair and, if necessary, change their clothes.
8.) Children are little treasures and he would like to see them playing the part. Minimize all noise. At the time of his arrival, eliminate all noise of the washer, dryer or vacuum. Try to encourage the children to be quiet.
9.) Be happy to see him. Free him with a warm smile and show sincerity in your desire to please him. Listen to him.
10.) You may have a dozen important things to tell him, but the moment of his arrival is not the time. Let him talk first — remember, his topics of conversation are more important than yours.
11.) Make the evening his. Never complain if he comes home late or goes out to dinner, or other places of entertainment without you. Instead, try to understand his world of strain and pressure and his very real need to be at home and relax.
12.) Your goal: Try to make sure your home is a place of peace, order and tranquility where you husband can renew himself in body and spirit.
13.) Don’t greet him with complaints and problems.
14.) Don’t complain if he’s late home for dinner or even if he stays out all night. Count this as minor compared to what he might have gone through that day.
15.) Make him comfortable. Have him lean back in a comfortable chair or have him lie down in the bedroom. Have a cool or warm drink ready for him.
16.) Arrange his pillow and offer to take off his shoes. Speak in a low, soothing and pleasant voice.
17.) Don’t ask him questions about his actions or question his judgment of integrity. Remember, he is the master of the house and as such will always exercise his will with fairness and truthfulness. You have no right to question him.

Anonymous wrote:I am a marriage counselor and I have been asked in sessions to help create a job list, which, to your point OP, I refused to do.

Generally I find that when it has devolved into constant bickering about chores and it’s really about scorekeeping and resentment. There is no job list that will deal with that task. There are many things that we do for our partners that cannot be placed on a list. Do you smile when they walk into the room and ask them how their day is? Do you put aside the phone during dinner and ask your partner questions? Do you tell her she looks beautiful or compliment his new haircut? That’s what a relationship is, it’s about connecting. When couples aren’t connecting on that level that’s when they become resentful and scorekeeping of chores. You have to manage the issues in the relationship which are the root.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a marriage counselor and I have been asked in sessions to help create a job list, which, to your point OP, I refused to do.

Generally I find that when it has devolved into constant bickering about chores and it’s really about scorekeeping and resentment. There is no job list that will deal with that task. There are many things that we do for our partners that cannot be placed on a list. Do you smile when they walk into the room and ask them how their day is? Do you put aside the phone during dinner and ask your partner questions? Do you tell her she looks beautiful or compliment his new haircut? That’s what a relationship is, it’s about connecting. When couples aren’t connecting on that level that’s when they become resentful and scorekeeping of chores. You have to manage the issues in the relationship which are the root.

You must have couples though where one doesn't see or comprehend the extent that the other one does at home.

I see this issue all the time on here (usually yes the woman is the one doing all the work but not always).

I think if somebody needs validation about the work that they are doing it can be one of two things: the first is that you could be married to an ungrateful person. The second is that if you require a lot of validation it’s because you have unfulfilled needs that cannot be filled by your partner. I generally find it’s the latter, that there isn’t enough thank you and validation to get rid of the resentment you feel that you are doing a lot of the household tasks.And that doesn’t have anything to do with your partner, it has to do with a lifelong feeling of not being appreciated.

Also, I see couples where the wife is complaining that the husband travels too much for work or works too many hours.

We all have to be responsible for our own happiness. If you think your partner is going to “make you happy “you will be in for a lifetime of disappointment. They can add to your happiness, they cannot make you happy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a marriage counselor and I have been asked in sessions to help create a job list, which, to your point OP, I refused to do.

Generally I find that when it has devolved into constant bickering about chores and it’s really about scorekeeping and resentment. There is no job list that will deal with that task. There are many things that we do for our partners that cannot be placed on a list. Do you smile when they walk into the room and ask them how their day is? Do you put aside the phone during dinner and ask your partner questions? Do you tell her she looks beautiful or compliment his new haircut? That’s what a relationship is, it’s about connecting. When couples aren’t connecting on that level that’s when they become resentful and scorekeeping of chores. You have to manage the issues in the relationship which are the root.

Precisely beautifully said! It is just that many people do not have that in them. In others it seems to die by having to pull the weight of the other.

I’m the PP. this is true, and that leads to my next hypothesis which is that most marriage counseling is not going to do much because it’s really about individual issues that are being blamed on the marriage. If you feel unfulfilled or anxious it’s easy to look for a reason in your marriage, to “blame it” so to speak.

Anonymous wrote:I am a marriage counselor and I have been asked in sessions to help create a job list, which, to your point OP, I refused to do.

Generally I find that when it has devolved into constant bickering about chores and it’s really about scorekeeping and resentment. There is no job list that will deal with that task. There are many things that we do for our partners that cannot be placed on a list. Do you smile when they walk into the room and ask them how their day is? Do you put aside the phone during dinner and ask your partner questions? Do you tell her she looks beautiful or compliment his new haircut? That’s what a relationship is, it’s about connecting. When couples aren’t connecting on that level that’s when they become resentful and scorekeeping of chores. You have to manage the issues in the relationship which are the root.

You must have couples though where one doesn't see or comprehend the extent that the other one does at home.

I see this issue all the time on here (usually yes the woman is the one doing all the work but not always).

Anonymous wrote:Instead of paying a counselor, get a maid service once a week.

This is not enough to keep a house clean, let alone running especially if you have kids (laundry, loading/unloading dishwasher, cooking, grocery shopping and putting groceries away, daily tidying, etc. etc.).

You could hire this out if you had a housekeeper come in at least 3-4 times a week.

Anonymous wrote:I am a marriage counselor and I have been asked in sessions to help create a job list, which, to your point OP, I refused to do.

Generally I find that when it has devolved into constant bickering about chores and it’s really about scorekeeping and resentment. There is no job list that will deal with that task. There are many things that we do for our partners that cannot be placed on a list. Do you smile when they walk into the room and ask them how their day is? Do you put aside the phone during dinner and ask your partner questions? Do you tell her she looks beautiful or compliment his new haircut? That’s what a relationship is, it’s about connecting. When couples aren’t connecting on that level that’s when they become resentful and scorekeeping of chores. You have to manage the issues in the relationship which are the root.

Precisely beautifully said! It is just that many people do not have that in them. In others it seems to die by having to pull the weight of the other.

I am a marriage counselor and I have been asked in sessions to help create a job list, which, to your point OP, I refused to do.

Generally I find that when it has devolved into constant bickering about chores and it’s really about scorekeeping and resentment. There is no job list that will deal with that task. There are many things that we do for our partners that cannot be placed on a list. Do you smile when they walk into the room and ask them how their day is? Do you put aside the phone during dinner and ask your partner questions? Do you tell her she looks beautiful or compliment his new haircut? That’s what a relationship is, it’s about connecting. When couples aren’t connecting on that level that’s when they become resentful and scorekeeping of chores. You have to manage the issues in the relationship which are the root.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Instead of paying a counselor, get a maid service once a week.

That doesn't take care of the cars, lawn, garbage, snow shoveling, home repair, firewood fetching, or a million other things men tend to do.

True, but if it gets the complaining to stop and maybe you get a little something in bed it's a win.

Meh, forget the maid, it would not do anything to lighten the load of a wife, but if you want to make a real difference, how bout hiring a handsome handyman. His will take care of all work around the house and maybe this will solve the actual problems.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You really think the division of labor issue is just about the couple not knowing how to divide chores?

I mean ... kind of? Or at least to help both partners understand and accept the situation. At the very beginning (when my child was a newborn) I was so overwhelmed that I didn't even really know how to ask for help. All I knew is that I felt very, very alone with a DH trying to pretend like he didn't have a child ...

All mothers feel that way. Try being a single mother. It's actually easy if you "feel" the bond of motherhood. Some women don't.

Men don't get it either. They don't feel the bond that all that suffering creates. Suffering can turn into joy, or self-pity. That's a choice women make.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Instead of paying a counselor, get a maid service once a week.

That doesn't take care of the cars, lawn, garbage, snow shoveling, home repair, firewood fetching, or a million other things men tend to do.

True, but if it gets the complaining to stop and maybe you get a little something in bed it's a win.

Anonymous wrote:You really think the division of labor issue is just about the couple not knowing how to divide chores?

In our case it was. I was doing thing my husband had no idea. We made list of the chores we were doing and when it was laid out it was clear there was an imbalance. DHs mom had done all of these things and he thought they were happening by magic maybe? We’re more balanced now and much happier.