Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes they should be addressed as Professor, unless the prof says otherwise. Basic respect.

100% this. You always address them as professor or dr unless/until told otherwise. Your daughter was rude.

This, no schools should have kids address the adults by first name. You should have taught your daughter that. She was absolutely rude. A professor is not a friend or peer.

The reason you go with Professor rather than Dr is because many instructors only hold Masters or are just working on their doctorate - so should not be called Dr.
Dr. is definitely more prestigious than Professor. Just ask a lawyer, they go crazy that they can't be called Dr unless they have a PhD in law.

The default should be Professor, never Mrs. or Mr. Generally, what you will se is undergrads use Professor/Dr and switching to first names in grad school

I taught in various institutions of various levels for 2 decades. I went by my first name because it fits my teaching style, what I taught, and because when I first started teaching I was 25 and was often teaching students older than myself. I never really pushed back against students if they preferred Dr or Professor, only if they called me Mrs. x or Miss x. However, at times I would have students that grew up in lower income areas where the default for women (regardless of their age) was Miss, I decided it was not my place to correct them. If I had the same students as upperclassmen, they had made the switch. The same with people on the GI bill, nearly impossible for them to call me anything but ma'am the first two years.

As an undergrad student, you need to call people Dr or Prof at least until invited directly to do otherwise by that specific person.

As a postgrad student, it's still convention to use titles until/unless invited to do otherwise.

When you have a PhD, it's convention to use first names and it would be very strange to do (or be expected to do) otherwise.

I agree with the PP who said that most of the people your DD is interacting with are probably TAs, most of whom probably don't have their PhD yet.

Anonymous wrote:If your DD is at a large research university, she may be unaware that her instructors are not all professors--some might be TAs, some lecturers, and only some are professors. IME, the first-name thing is rather more common among TAs--who are themselves likely calling their professors in grad school by their first name.

I would not assume that the two people who gave your daughter feedback are outliers, nor would I call them rude or obnoxious. All of us deserve to be addressed in professional settings as we desire to be addressed. An advisor asking to be called by her title and surname doesn't seem in the least obnoxious, especially since many advisors see it as their job to model appropriate behavior in professional settings for the students they advise.

Moral of the story: it's always better to assume formality and to be invited to use first names. Your daughter should take the feedback, and be grateful for it.

That occurred to me. When I was a TA a lot of students called me professor, I would correct them. We also had a couple of lecturers in the department who had been there for years (math dept)--there were only certain courses they could teach. I think we called them Mr. and Mrs.

St. John's College prizes formality--but not academic titles. Everyone is Mr. Mrs. Ms. or Miss, student and faculty.

If your DD is at a large research university, she may be unaware that her instructors are not all professors--some might be TAs, some lecturers, and only some are professors. IME, the first-name thing is rather more common among TAs--who are themselves likely calling their professors in grad school by their first name.

I would not assume that the two people who gave your daughter feedback are outliers, nor would I call them rude or obnoxious. All of us deserve to be addressed in professional settings as we desire to be addressed. An advisor asking to be called by her title and surname doesn't seem in the least obnoxious, especially since many advisors see it as their job to model appropriate behavior in professional settings for the students they advise.

Moral of the story: it's always better to assume formality and to be invited to use first names. Your daughter should take the feedback, and be grateful for it.

As a grad student in the 2000s, I would never have addressed a professor casually unless I knew him or her on a first name basis - which means my PI/advisor, and the handful of PIs in the same corridor and field of research with whom we had departmental meetings (and even then, not all).

At that time, I never heard an undergrad address a professor by first name. That would have shocked me enough that I would have remembered it.

However in your daughter's defense, America is such a casual country that she might be forgiven for her ignorance. I have lived in Europe and Asia, and over there it's clear-cut. In Asian countries, it can get downright stifling - there are particular words and turns of phrase to express oneself toward a superior, an equal, or an inferior, and it can get extremely complicated!!!

Did your daughter go from a Quaker institution to a larger academic center? I did and I know the transition from first names is difficult but it’s on her to learn.

Anonymous wrote:Daughter claims basically all of her professors and faculty prefer first name basis. And that same majority are casual about emails, i.e. just say what you have to say, no need for the formal business format each email "Dear Dr. so and so, ... blah blah ... Best, kiddo."

But she casually called one professor by their first name and was sort of pulled to the side and chastised face to face. She did the same in an email response to an advisor and the advisor literally told her to meet her in the office later in the week. At the office she told her she needs to conduct herself with more professionalism. Calm down, Ms. Advisor.

Are the two outliers just obnoxious jerks or do they have a point?

Another possibility is that one or more of her professors asked her advisor to talk to your daughter about this.

But hey, if you want your daughter to keep making a terrible first impression with everyone on campus, keep telling her “they’re ALL obnoxious!” Every last one of them! Eventually, people will stop trying to talk to her about improving, you’ll think it’s affirmation that she was right the whole time, but in reality it just means everyone’s written her off.

OP, the obvious takeaway is that your daughter has the wrong impression. Most professors do not prefer to have undergrads a dress them by their first name. Just because many professors have chosen not to correct her rudeness does not make it any less rude.

Note that not one, but two people have pulled your daughter aside to address her rude behavior. These people are trying to help her. Instead of taking the feedback and improving her manners you want to advise your daughter to insist that everyone likes her rudeness?!?

What do you call a new doctor? Probably "DR."
PhD's go to graduate school longer than doctors to to medical school (though I understand they have clinical training beyond that).

My point is, the culturally appropriate behavior is to start off formal (ie. with optimal respect) and become familiar with permission. Isn't that what you did with even your child's high school teachers? Why would college professors deserve less respect?

Funny that you start off with, "Daughter claims basically all of her professors and faculty prefer first name basis."
Obviously, assuming this was your child's first mistake. It is much more common in graduate school (especially for doctoral students who are typically there for 5-7 years, so they become colleagues by the end of their training). But even then, there are exceptions.

This could be a valuable lesson for your daughter. Don't undermine it with comments like, "They must be obnoxious jerks."

It really depends on the prof. When I was in academia, I always told students to call me by my first name. (And if they didn't, I got annoyed if they called me "Mrs." because they never called my male colleagues "Mr." but that's another rant for another day.) So of course your daughter got used to informality with some of her profs and she expected the others would act the same way. And she was wrong. No big deal.

But she's now learned that she should start out more formally and wait to find out if the prof or staff member wants to be more informal. (This is particularly important for some women and people of color.) So she learned a valuable lesson in life. Won't be the last time she learns something like this in an uncomfortable way. Part of growing up.

Default should always be professor/Doctor until the person in question makes clear he/she call be called by their first name.

Professor is a more distinguished title than doctor. Anyone with a PhD is doctor but professor is specific to the job.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daughter claims basically all of her professors and faculty prefer first name basis. And that same majority are casual about emails, i.e. just say what you have to say, no need for the formal business format each email "Dear Dr. so and so, ... blah blah ... Best, kiddo."

But she casually called one professor by their first name and was sort of pulled to the side and chastised face to face. She did the same in an email response to an advisor and the advisor literally told her to meet her in the office later in the week. At the office she told her she needs to conduct herself with more professionalism. Calm down, Ms. Advisor.

Are the two outliers just obnoxious jerks or do they have a point?

Wonder where your child learned about professionalism and manners

Because unfulfilled power-tripping hacks never find themselves trapped in some adjunct faculty or advisor role at a university.

So PP, you don’t ever insist that someone call you by your title? (Which is what, BTW?)

I went to a college where many, but not all, professors asked to be called by their first names. Still, I always started with “Professors lastname” until they made clear they wanted to be called by their first name.