Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is in the approach.

My MIL can come over anytime and visit. Hell, I’ll glady leave the house! But she will call and say, “When can I HAVE Mary and Bill?” They aren’t possessions.

To each his own. I’d love my MIL to call and ask for my kids. She lives 10 mins away but is far to busy with aquacise, birdwatching, garden club, and supper club to have any time for my kids except for the rare day it suits her for 2 hours.

Good for your MIL being an active person. At least she has stuff to talk and likely will be healthy for a long time.

My MIL does *nothing*, so all she talks about is the weather and she fawns over the grandkids in a cloying way that they ate up as little kids but is less successful as they get older.

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is in the approach.

My MIL can come over anytime and visit. Hell, I’ll glady leave the house! But she will call and say, “When can I HAVE Mary and Bill?” They aren’t possessions.

To each his own. I’d love my MIL to call and ask for my kids. She lives 10 mins away but is far to busy with aquacise, birdwatching, garden club, and supper club to have any time for my kids except for the rare day it suits her for 2 hours.

As with most family issues, the devil is in the details- sometimes grandparents are the problem, sometimes the adult kids/parents are the problem. If you aren't privy to all of the details it is hard to know. I tend to give parents the benefit of the doubt in these situations. In the end, a good relationship in the nuclear family (mom, dad, young kids) is far more important than the relationship with grandparents. I think the world has changed to some degree- people are waiting much longer to have children (and are more self assured when they do, and less reliant on grandparents), and many live further from extended family (whereas in the past, that was less common). This does bring up issues. In the past, grandparents often lived nearby and had a strong role in the raising of the grandkids (and were more likely to be deferrred to). Also, in the past, it was more common that "holidays and events were always at grandma's house"- with the physical distance these days, grandparents are expected to do some of the traveling as long as they are physically able. Differing expectations on the roles of grandparents tend to create a lot of conflict.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sweet. Can we also counter this with all the people who withhold their kids as punishment, or with those who move across th country, then complain that they don’t get any help, although their parents “can afford” to travel and “have time” because they’re retired?

Why do you feel entitled to someone else’s time and money?

I feel “entitled” because my parents are retired and have more money than me. They never want to visit their grandkid, they want me to bring the grandkids to them, and then take their cruises to Hawaii. Fine. But don’t complain how you never see your grandkid!

So they worked and sacrificed for you for 20 years or so, and now you begrudge them a trip to Hawaii or whatever?

Relationships should be about abalance and not about power and control.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is in the approach.

My MIL can come over anytime and visit. Hell, I’ll glady leave the house! But she will call and say, “When can I HAVE Mary and Bill?” They aren’t possessions.

So grandma can only see the kids are your house? And you withhold contact because you don't like the way she asks? Wow.

If you find no one in the family wants to spend time with your kids even though they are generally loving people who live within regular visiting distance look to how you act around them. If every time your sister wants to take the kids out for fun and you're all..."but no sugar, no sun, no TV time, check with me before you take them to any new place, don't give them any non-organic food, they need to be in bed by 8..." Obviously I'm being too much with it but some of you squeeze ALL the joy out of spending time with your kids. It's like you're so determined to prove to the world that YOU'RE THE MOMMY BY GOD AND YOU'LL CALL THE SHOTS EVERY SECOND OF EVERY DAY AND INTERACTION that you're guaranteeing your kids will never be close to anyone but you. Maybe that's your goal?

So glad my brothers aren't like this. I have so much fun with my nieces and nephews and they know they have two other adults (my DH) in their lives who love and adore them.

What you call being a “control freak” is often responsible parenting. Don’t you think the parents would find it fun — in the moment — to gorge on sweets and stay up late with kids?! But the parents have the responsibility to deal with the overtired kids the next day and to raise healthy kids in a culture that overall is pretty bad at diet, exercise, and sleep.

If you can’t be a loving and fun presence without resorting to cheap tactics, then, yeah, you get less time with my kids.

Anonymous wrote:Sweet. Can we also counter this with all the people who withhold their kids as punishment, or with those who move across th country, then complain that they don’t get any help, although their parents “can afford” to travel and “have time” because they’re retired?

Why do you feel entitled to someone else’s time and money?

I feel “entitled” because my parents are retired and have more money than me. They never want to visit their grandkid, they want me to bring the grandkids to them, and then take their cruises to Hawaii. Fine. But don’t complain how you never see your grandkid!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is in the approach.

My MIL can come over anytime and visit. Hell, I’ll glady leave the house! But she will call and say, “When can I HAVE Mary and Bill?” They aren’t possessions.

So grandma can only see the kids are your house? And you withhold contact because you don't like the way she asks? Wow.

If you find no one in the family wants to spend time with your kids even though they are generally loving people who live within regular visiting distance look to how you act around them. If every time your sister wants to take the kids out for fun and you're all..."but no sugar, no sun, no TV time, check with me before you take them to any new place, don't give them any non-organic food, they need to be in bed by 8..." Obviously I'm being too much with it but some of you squeeze ALL the joy out of spending time with your kids. It's like you're so determined to prove to the world that YOU'RE THE MOMMY BY GOD AND YOU'LL CALL THE SHOTS EVERY SECOND OF EVERY DAY AND INTERACTION that you're guaranteeing your kids will never be close to anyone but you. Maybe that's your goal?

So glad my brothers aren't like this. I have so much fun with my nieces and nephews and they know they have two other adults (my DH) in their lives who love and adore them.

OMG, I have a SIL like this. Control freaks are the WORST.

And yes, grandparents can also be awful--intentionally undercutting the parents, or making unreasonable demands, etc. I think that normal people with even reasonably healthy relationships with their parents can work this out, and it's almost always to the kids' benefit. If you think of it in terms of "entitlement" and "they aren't the parent" and the like, you're more likely to have conflicts, because you see relationships as being transactional, and even zero-sum. I treasure my memories of spending time with my grandparents, and I'm glad that my parents and my grandparents were reasonable people.

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom of young kids (4 and 1) and I think grandparents have every right to expect a relationship and time with their grandchildren. As a parent, you can ofcourse deny them that - but absent a legitimate reason (abusive, mean or dangerous behavior), grandparents are also a child's family and can expect to have a relationship with their grandchildren.

This. These aren't total strangers we're talking about, they are family. Generally speaking, grandparents love their grandchildren, and I don't see what's "entitled" about wanting and expecting a relationship with them. Certainly, some grandparents should not, because of safety or abuse concerns, for example, and obviously, grandparents should be respectful and reasonable, but the idea that a grandparent has no right to expect a relationship with their grandchild is just nuts. Those can be really amazing relationships. Kids aren't your property, and frankly, I agree that kids can't have too many people who love them.

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is in the approach.

My MIL can come over anytime and visit. Hell, I’ll glady leave the house! But she will call and say, “When can I HAVE Mary and Bill?” They aren’t possessions.

So grandma can only see the kids are your house? And you withhold contact because you don't like the way she asks? Wow.

If you find no one in the family wants to spend time with your kids even though they are generally loving people who live within regular visiting distance look to how you act around them. If every time your sister wants to take the kids out for fun and you're all..."but no sugar, no sun, no TV time, check with me before you take them to any new place, don't give them any non-organic food, they need to be in bed by 8..." Obviously I'm being too much with it but some of you squeeze ALL the joy out of spending time with your kids. It's like you're so determined to prove to the world that YOU'RE THE MOMMY BY GOD AND YOU'LL CALL THE SHOTS EVERY SECOND OF EVERY DAY AND INTERACTION that you're guaranteeing your kids will never be close to anyone but you. Maybe that's your goal?

So glad my brothers aren't like this. I have so much fun with my nieces and nephews and they know they have two other adults (my DH) in their lives who love and adore them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And yet, so often people like you use your control over them to deny them to others you don’t like, instead of recognizing that kids are lucky to have more people who love them.

I don't know any parents who will leave their kids with people who they don't like or don't trust. Its strange to expect that someone would hand over their kid to someone they didn't like.

Plus if the parents don't like you, why do you think that the kid is going to like you? People like these always assume that the kids want to be with them but its just the mean parents denying access. More often than not, the kids don't want the relationship either or don't like you.

I also think that people who see this as control are simply angry that they aren't getting what they want. Its not your kid, back off.

My sister got into an argument with my parents and drove straight past their house to see friends and wouldn't let them see the grandkids. My sister lives in another state so a visit is an occasional thing. My parents learned that they had to toe the line, never upset her or she withholds the grandkids from them. They have now resorted to paying bills she brings up not to anger her so they can still see the grandkids. They pay for some vacations and nice face cream for my sister. If they don't then somehow my sister becomes very busy to see or talk to them, it's a choice they made to keep in contact with the grandkids.

It's the parents who want control and have issues with it and use the kids as pawn. It's quite disgusting and I think less of my sister now, I barely respect her.

So it seems there are some bad parents/grandparents, and there are some bad adult children. I hope you don’t think that because your sister isn’t respectable, all grandparents are taken advantage of and always in the right.

No I don't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And yet, so often people like you use your control over them to deny them to others you don’t like, instead of recognizing that kids are lucky to have more people who love them.

I don't know any parents who will leave their kids with people who they don't like or don't trust. Its strange to expect that someone would hand over their kid to someone they didn't like.

Plus if the parents don't like you, why do you think that the kid is going to like you? People like these always assume that the kids want to be with them but its just the mean parents denying access. More often than not, the kids don't want the relationship either or don't like you.

I also think that people who see this as control are simply angry that they aren't getting what they want. Its not your kid, back off.

My sister got into an argument with my parents and drove straight past their house to see friends and wouldn't let them see the grandkids. My sister lives in another state so a visit is an occasional thing. My parents learned that they had to toe the line, never upset her or she withholds the grandkids from them. They have now resorted to paying bills she brings up not to anger her so they can still see the grandkids. They pay for some vacations and nice face cream for my sister. If they don't then somehow my sister becomes very busy to see or talk to them, it's a choice they made to keep in contact with the grandkids.

It's the parents who want control and have issues with it and use the kids as pawn. It's quite disgusting and I think less of my sister now, I barely respect her.

So it seems there are some bad parents/grandparents, and there are some bad adult children. I hope you don’t think that because your sister isn’t respectable, all grandparents are taken advantage of and always in the right.

Anonymous wrote:

And yet, so often people like you use your control over them to deny them to others you don’t like, instead of recognizing that kids are lucky to have more people who love them.

I don't know any parents who will leave their kids with people who they don't like or don't trust. Its strange to expect that someone would hand over their kid to someone they didn't like.

Plus if the parents don't like you, why do you think that the kid is going to like you? People like these always assume that the kids want to be with them but its just the mean parents denying access. More often than not, the kids don't want the relationship either or don't like you.

I also think that people who see this as control are simply angry that they aren't getting what they want. Its not your kid, back off.

My sister got into an argument with my parents and drove straight past their house to see friends and wouldn't let them see the grandkids. My sister lives in another state so a visit is an occasional thing. My parents learned that they had to toe the line, never upset her or she withholds the grandkids from them. They have now resorted to paying bills she brings up not to anger her so they can still see the grandkids. They pay for some vacations and nice face cream for my sister. If they don't then somehow my sister becomes very busy to see or talk to them, it's a choice they made to keep in contact with the grandkids.

It's the parents who want control and have issues with it and use the kids as pawn. It's quite disgusting and I think less of my sister now, I barely respect her.

At the end of the day, grandparents and grandchildren are still family, they share the same DNA. They may not be the parents but the child wouldn't be alive if there weren't grandparents.

I think some women these days get overly protective of their children and think they own them outright whereas in the past people use to spend more time with their families and saw the village as a good thing.

On the other side of the fence, I think grandmothers these days can border on a little crazy and young people today don't put up with crap like the older generations did out of duty.

If you have a good family it all works out, if not it becomes messy.

I think the issue is in the approach.

My MIL can come over anytime and visit. Hell, I’ll glady leave the house! But she will call and say, “When can I HAVE Mary and Bill?” They aren’t possessions.

Anonymous wrote:I’m an aunt and I have my own kids. This is a strange post. Just because you want to see your nieces and nephews and grandchildren doesn’t make you entitled. It’s pretty generous. And if you’re the kid whose grandparents, aunts and uncles spend time with you and take you places, you’re pretty lucky.

Also, if those relationships are cultivated and something happens to you, your kids then have other trusted adults in their lives to help them and support them.

No child can ever have too many people that love them.

I don’t think it’s normal family visits that OP is talking about. Probably more like my mom who would demand we drive 500 miles and bring the kids to visit the day after Christmas as a compromise when we said we weren’t traveling on Christmas. (Yes, we could’ve said no and started WWIII, but we were young and trying to keep the peace and grandma is just trying to show her love). Or how she would freak out if any of the other grandparents wanted to visit on the kids’ birthdays because it should all be about her. Or how she would want to face time when it was convenient for her and would expect us to wake the kids so they could see her (we didn’t but it didn’t stop her from expecting it). Or how if they traveled to us, they would wake the kids even if they arrived at midnight and the kids were 4-6 years old (again, preventing that was like trying to prevent a tornado). Healthy boundaries were met with much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Asking for a visit? Awesome. Taking the kids to the zoo? You’re the best. Carrying on like I owe you time with my children on your schedule regardless of what’s best and healthiest for my family? Not cool.

My mom said more than once to me, “you came out of my body so you belong to me. They came from your body, so essentially they’re mine too. Accept that.”