Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here. This doesn't really explain *why* you are concerned about your "social class." You are educated and wealthy- what is missing from your life? Are you ever in some social situation where you don't fit in despite having money and an education?

NP here. But this question suggests to me that you must not be close to many people who grew up very differently than you did. My parents are immigrants who did well in the US as educated professionals. I grew up UMC/rich, and DH and I are now UMC/rich. Though his family has been in the US for generations (Mayflower on one side), there are similarities in our upbringings. He is also UMC, but his parents' income was lower and they have lower NW today.

DH and I are in fields (STEM PhD) that tend to be attainable to a broader set of SES backgrounds than the professions most UMC professionals work in (e.g. law, medicine). I've sat in professional trainings where people were taught which forks to use, how to introduce themselves at networking events, how to assess whether your "business casual" outfit is actually "business" or just "casual". The first time I encountered this kind of training, I thought it was so strange. All of this was stuff I was just expected to know by a pretty young age. But for many others, this was the first time someone had sat down to explain this stuff to them (though most of them had already picked up its importance). Pretending like these class differences don't exist and that they don't impact someone's career and social standing ultimately hurts people who did not grow up learning them.

OP here. My parents were immigrants and I think you are confusing the ability to pick up social cues with some sort of class difference. Introducing yourself at a network event is hard for many people because it can be awkward, not because they missed out on some sort of prior experience. Most people can figure out what "business casual" means or, worst case scenario, google it. The trainings you are talking about sound like they are for people who are awkward, not of a lower socioeconomic class.

I totally disagree. I grew up with plenty of awkward people in my mostly non-immigrant community. We were still all taught these things in the course of growing up. Many people are not taught these things because of class differences, and it can be overwhelming to figure it out. Certainly, there are some people who are extremely adept at figuring these things out without instruction. But you don't have to be particularly awkward to benefit from some coaching in these areas. I know plenty of people who are in no way awkward, but also just never learned subtle things like the way hierarchy impacts how you make introductions at a networking event. I grew up absorbing those things to the point where I don't even think about them. But as I've interacted more and more with people who did not grow up like me and had them tell me what was hard, I've come to appreciate that these are class advantages I didn't even know I had.

Alright- let me clarify. People who are working class or lower on the socio-economic ladder may have difficulty with forks or introducing themselves at work events. That's not what we're discussing here, and the pp who started this tangent admitted as much, that because she is now rich no one really cares about any subtleties in her behavior. And that's not really the focus on DCUM- this is not a crowd that worries about poor people. Middle class people can function at work events. People on the other thread are spending 30 pages arguing about whether the upper class goes to Portugal or buys Stickley furniture- why do they do that? That's what's interesting to me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's class insecurity in a capitalistic society with few social programs. People are terrified that they will lose their job (and therefore their social standing) or be outpaced/replaced by someone younger/smarter/browner/etc. So they fixate on arbitrary differences between themselves and others, because they feel powerless to create any real change.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here. This doesn't really explain *why* you are concerned about your "social class." You are educated and wealthy- what is missing from your life? Are you ever in some social situation where you don't fit in despite having money and an education?

NP here. But this question suggests to me that you must not be close to many people who grew up very differently than you did. My parents are immigrants who did well in the US as educated professionals. I grew up UMC/rich, and DH and I are now UMC/rich. Though his family has been in the US for generations (Mayflower on one side), there are similarities in our upbringings. He is also UMC, but his parents' income was lower and they have lower NW today.

DH and I are in fields (STEM PhD) that tend to be attainable to a broader set of SES backgrounds than the professions most UMC professionals work in (e.g. law, medicine). I've sat in professional trainings where people were taught which forks to use, how to introduce themselves at networking events, how to assess whether your "business casual" outfit is actually "business" or just "casual". The first time I encountered this kind of training, I thought it was so strange. All of this was stuff I was just expected to know by a pretty young age. But for many others, this was the first time someone had sat down to explain this stuff to them (though most of them had already picked up its importance). Pretending like these class differences don't exist and that they don't impact someone's career and social standing ultimately hurts people who did not grow up learning them.

OP here. My parents were immigrants and I think you are confusing the ability to pick up social cues with some sort of class difference. Introducing yourself at a network event is hard for many people because it can be awkward, not because they missed out on some sort of prior experience. Most people can figure out what "business casual" means or, worst case scenario, google it. The trainings you are talking about sound like they are for people who are awkward, not of a lower socioeconomic class.

I totally disagree. I grew up with plenty of awkward people in my mostly non-immigrant community. We were still all taught these things in the course of growing up. Many people are not taught these things because of class differences, and it can be overwhelming to figure it out. Certainly, there are some people who are extremely adept at figuring these things out without instruction. But you don't have to be particularly awkward to benefit from some coaching in these areas. I know plenty of people who are in no way awkward, but also just never learned subtle things like the way hierarchy impacts how you make introductions at a networking event. I grew up absorbing those things to the point where I don't even think about them. But as I've interacted more and more with people who did not grow up like me and had them tell me what was hard, I've come to appreciate that these are class advantages I didn't even know I had.

Anonymous wrote:It's class insecurity in a capitalistic society with few social programs. People are terrified that they will lose their job (and therefore their social standing) or be outpaced/replaced by someone younger/smarter/browner/etc. So they fixate on arbitrary differences between themselves and others, because they feel powerless to create any real change.

Anonymous wrote:Mental illness is rampant here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here. This doesn't really explain *why* you are concerned about your "social class." You are educated and wealthy- what is missing from your life? Are you ever in some social situation where you don't fit in despite having money and an education?

NP here. But this question suggests to me that you must not be close to many people who grew up very differently than you did. My parents are immigrants who did well in the US as educated professionals. I grew up UMC/rich, and DH and I are now UMC/rich. Though his family has been in the US for generations (Mayflower on one side), there are similarities in our upbringings. He is also UMC, but his parents' income was lower and they have lower NW today.

DH and I are in fields (STEM PhD) that tend to be attainable to a broader set of SES backgrounds than the professions most UMC professionals work in (e.g. law, medicine). I've sat in professional trainings where people were taught which forks to use, how to introduce themselves at networking events, how to assess whether your "business casual" outfit is actually "business" or just "casual". The first time I encountered this kind of training, I thought it was so strange. All of this was stuff I was just expected to know by a pretty young age. But for many others, this was the first time someone had sat down to explain this stuff to them (though most of them had already picked up its importance). Pretending like these class differences don't exist and that they don't impact someone's career and social standing ultimately hurts people who did not grow up learning them.

OP here. My parents were immigrants and I think you are confusing the ability to pick up social cues with some sort of class difference. Introducing yourself at a network event is hard for many people because it can be awkward, not because they missed out on some sort of prior experience. Most people can figure out what "business casual" means or, worst case scenario, google it. The trainings you are talking about sound like they are for people who are awkward, not of a lower socioeconomic class.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here. This doesn't really explain *why* you are concerned about your "social class." You are educated and wealthy- what is missing from your life? Are you ever in some social situation where you don't fit in despite having money and an education?

NP here. But this question suggests to me that you must not be close to many people who grew up very differently than you did. My parents are immigrants who did well in the US as educated professionals. I grew up UMC/rich, and DH and I are now UMC/rich. Though his family has been in the US for generations (Mayflower on one side), there are similarities in our upbringings. He is also UMC, but his parents' income was lower and they have lower NW today.

DH and I are in fields (STEM PhD) that tend to be attainable to a broader set of SES backgrounds than the professions most UMC professionals work in (e.g. law, medicine). I've sat in professional trainings where people were taught which forks to use, how to introduce themselves at networking events, how to assess whether your "business casual" outfit is actually "business" or just "casual". The first time I encountered this kind of training, I thought it was so strange. All of this was stuff I was just expected to know by a pretty young age. But for many others, this was the first time someone had sat down to explain this stuff to them (though most of them had already picked up its importance). Pretending like these class differences don't exist and that they don't impact someone's career and social standing ultimately hurts people who did not grow up learning them.

Anonymous wrote:
OP here. This doesn't really explain *why* you are concerned about your "social class." You are educated and wealthy- what is missing from your life? Are you ever in some social situation where you don't fit in despite having money and an education?

Anonymous wrote:I find the existence of the thousands of threads on this so interesting. Partly because my parents come from a country where lower class people have a much harder time changing their “class”- they can’t afford to take care of their teeth, they speak differently, dress differently, etc. It’s a much more marked difference than in America where the differences between a middle class person and an upper class person are more subtle. Personally it’s not something I think about with regards to my own standing- as long as my children grow up to be educated and civic-minded with decent jobs and teeth I think they will be fine. That’s mostly what I worry about.

What drives the interest in this? Do you think people feel insecure about their place in society? Like, if they are perceived as lower class then they and their children will be locked out of opportunities? Is this another symptom of the wealth gap in our country, that a bunch of middle class women obsess about this endlessly?

Anonymous wrote:Well fwiw, I wouldn't say I am "obsessed" but I find the topic interesting. Primarily because I am a person who changed classes (maybe). Grew up poor, parents worked as a waitress and mechanic, barely got by, I'm a first generation college graduate, then I got a master's degree. Husband grew up the same way then through luck was involved in an IPO and made millions. Of course that was life changing. It kind of felt a little bit like winning the lottery. But I don't feel that the "social" part of our class changed that much.

The word is "social class" right? So I think it's interesting to question how much of it is social and how much is economic.