Anonymous wrote:Sadly over 40% of freshmen STEM/Engineering majors change majors to something easier so there are bigger problems than someone trying to get in under one thing and do a switcheroo.

Something about K-12 just is NOT creating students that can problem solve, fail & try again, get curved grades (50% right is an A, but you don't all get As!), etc.

ANyhow. Somewhere in China, a billion people are laughing at us.

That 40% depends on many things.

The program and advisors at the college
The quality of high school they accepted students
Allowing or not allowing kids in AP's


Here is the thing with engineering. These are the three types that drop out

1. Didn't know what an engineer actually does or doesn't have the patience to get thru the boring courses to get to the good stuff
2. Is a perfectionist who only received A's and can't tolerate that you fail 95% of the time in engineering to get that rare 5% that works (when coding, creating, learning, etc...)
3. Went to a school with a poor program, lack of advisors and study groups, accepted too many kids knowing they would drop and get enough transfers to make up the cost.


Every school we went to said time and time again, the females outperform the men in engineering IF they stick with it. That the females don't think they are doing well when they are in fact, doing better than most of the men. But the woman feel it isn't a good fit too quickly and leave.

I haven't met any woman going into engineering to get a bye into a school. Same with men in nursing. The kids that get into any great engineering program have the grades. Unfortunately many with those same grades also get denied. The scores of the some of the UMCP engineering rejections are unbelievable.

Anonymous wrote:You don't apply to a major at MIT and what you list as your "course of interest" has no bearing on admission.

They say it doesn't, but it does. Just like need-blind.

They aren't going to let in 50% of the same interest kids. They will overwhelm certain departments and underwhelm others.

Anonymous wrote:It works. Half of the girls in my engineering class dropped after the first semester. Doesn’t really help them as a group since they took the spots of boys that would have stayed in those degrees. Creates resentment among the remaining engineering class members.

Name the school

I'm the one who suggested applying STEM and then transferring out in the other thread. I may have misunderstood the OP's intentions but it sounded like her DD was competitive in STEM but wanted to pursue another major. Because of gender balancing, she may have a better shot being admitted to an engineering school vs. a liberal arts school that wants to recruit more men.

If she doesn't have the foundation for STEM, then (as PPs have commented) she wouldn't be a good candidate. I should note then that the conclusion in the other thread isn't that girls are disadvantaged, it's that her daughter just isn't that competitive.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2018-11-02/how-gender-influences-college-admissions

You don't apply to a major at MIT and what you list as your "course of interest" has no bearing on admission.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most schools pay little or no attention to possible major during admissions. Those that have a separate track/college for engineering will have higher admissions standards for applicants. The premise/tip that inspired this thread is just stupid.

Yeah, a STEM girl might get into MIT or Mudd with slightly lower test scores than a STEM boy because Mars needs Women, but there’s not a whole lot of transfer out of STEM potential in either place and an applicant who wanted to go to MIT for Econ or Poli Sci would have been equally if not more admissible on those terms than if she tried to pass herself off as a STEM major.

No look at the numbers for those school. Here is MIT

https://mitadmissions.org/apply/process/stats/

You need a near prefect scores on ACT or SAT to get in. They have enough applicants with high scores that they do not need to pick a slightly lower scores for gender.

The link posted doesn’t include any breakdown by gender.

Sadly over 40% of freshmen STEM/Engineering majors change majors to something easier so there are bigger problems than someone trying to get in under one thing and do a switcheroo.

Something about K-12 just is NOT creating students that can problem solve, fail & try again, get curved grades (50% right is an A, but you don't all get As!), etc.

ANyhow. Somewhere in China, a billion people are laughing at us.

Anonymous wrote:Most schools pay little or no attention to possible major during admissions. Those that have a separate track/college for engineering will have higher admissions standards for applicants. The premise/tip that inspired this thread is just stupid.

Yeah, a STEM girl might get into MIT or Mudd with slightly lower test scores than a STEM boy because Mars needs Women, but there’s not a whole lot of transfer out of STEM potential in either place and an applicant who wanted to go to MIT for Econ or Poli Sci would have been equally if not more admissible on those terms than if she tried to pass herself off as a STEM major.

No look at the numbers for those school. Here is MIT

https://mitadmissions.org/apply/process/stats/

You need a near prefect scores on ACT or SAT to get in. They have enough applicants with high scores that they do not need to pick a slightly lower scores for gender.

Anonymous wrote:It works. Half of the girls in my engineering class dropped after the first semester. Doesn’t really help them as a group since they took the spots of boys that would have stayed in those degrees. Creates resentment among the remaining engineering class members.

What crystal ball tells you all the boys would have stayed? Boys also drop out of engineering. It’s a tough program. DH is an engineer and a vet. He went in with an all male except one cohort. Half his class dropped by third year. That means nearly all the exits were male.

DD wanted to be an engineer before she knew the word for it. She doesn’t owe anyone but herself a commitment to stay in engineering. I would never think to tell her that’s a seat you are taking from a boy.

yeah, that is game in the system. Legal but not ethical

How is the girl getting in "fair and square" if she is lying no her application and intends to switch majors all along?

Most schools pay little or no attention to possible major during admissions. Those that have a separate track/college for engineering will have higher admissions standards for applicants. The premise/tip that inspired this thread is just stupid.

Yeah, a STEM girl might get into MIT or Mudd with slightly lower test scores than a STEM boy because Mars needs Women, but there’s not a whole lot of transfer out of STEM potential in either place and an applicant who wanted to go to MIT for Econ or Poli Sci would have been equally if not more admissible on those terms than if she tried to pass herself off as a STEM major.

Anonymous wrote:It works. Half of the girls in my engineering class dropped after the first semester. Doesn’t really help them as a group since they took the spots of boys that would have stayed in those degrees. Creates resentment among the remaining engineering class members.

Was it just women that dropped out? I am an engineer and by second semester of 2nd year a lot of would be engineers dropped out. Not just women. BTW I am a female who wasn't and engineering major...at first. I just started taking some of the classes. So I dropped in.

Anonymous wrote:Plus, your high school record should logically match your stated interest (such as take AP calculus if you want to be an engineer).

Haven’t the recent scandals taught parents to stop gaming the system? Who wants their kid in a school that is over their head. Just stop!

AP BC Calculus. Better if taken junior year and then Matrix and Multivar senior year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Plus, your high school record should logically match your stated interest (such as take AP calculus if you want to be an engineer).

Haven’t the recent scandals taught parents to stop gaming the system? Who wants their kid in a school that is over their head. Just stop!

Plenty of girls who are not interested in STEM take AP calculus and physics. Would this be enough to get into a STEM major at a school like Vandy or UVA?

Physics C? Physics 1 doesn't really count.