Anonymous wrote:The athletic route w $$ is a well know route in my kids private school - they have since graduated. This is the formula :
1. Get accommodations for kids
2. Kid play a sport - not football, basketball, cross country, track or crew but more sports they can play at their country club or private clubs - tennis/squash/lacrosse/sailing/ski
3. Donate $$$ to HS in junior year
4. Private HS college counselor calls college on behalf of family and also indicate family willing to donate $$$ to college development officer
5. Kid gets in - usually HYP/Stanford/Duke/top 10 privae

Are these students considered athletic recruits to their elite college?

The athletic route w $$ is a well know route in my kids private school - they have since graduated. This is the formula :
1. Get accommodations for kids
2. Kid play a sport - not football, basketball, cross country, track or crew but more sports they can play at their country club or private clubs - tennis/squash/lacrosse/sailing/ski
3. Donate $$$ to HS in junior year
4. Private HS college counselor calls college on behalf of family and also indicate family willing to donate $$$ to college development officer
5. Kid gets in - usually HYP/Stanford/Duke/top 10 privae

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is definitely an issue with kids who have had no ld suddenly needing more test time. This is the kind of cheating that I hear about. Also teachers who want to help FA students by changing answers on standardized tests. This happens all the time as well.

Uh, what?

+1 What a cuckoo post. Legitimate accommodations for kids with learning needs are required by law. And if you had evidence of teachers changing answers on standardized tests, you would have reported it. But you don't.

Truth hurts. Many schools direct kids to a certain Dr and suddenly they an ld. I had no idea about extra time until my kid brought it up. DC noticed that suddenly a quarter of the class was getting extra time. Some kids would go into separate rooms as well. Happened on an outplacement year. Also found out that kids were getting extra tutoring that had FA for free. There is a lot of murky stuff going on at these schools. I think in the last few years some schools and parents have gotten bolder. Before you say things like someone is crazy bringing this up why din’t You ask your kid if they have noticed more kids getting time when for years they did not or other accommodations happening on an outplacement year.

You're a loon and a poor example for your child. Providing extra tutoring to kids on FA is not cheating, it just levels the playing field somewhat with kids with rich parents who can buy every advantage for their kid. That is entirely different from what you say which is that teachers are changing answers on standardized tests. Again, if you had proof, you would have said something. But you'd rather just babble lies on the internet.

There are a lot of data out there about cheating in asking for extended time accommodations. The sudden jump when College Board stopped flagging scores, the % of white kids with accommodations are 20% higher than % of white kids in the student population, the higher % of accommodations from wealthier suburbs, etc. We see it in our own private. Accommodations for diabetics, audio processing disorder, etc.

It is time for the SAT and ACT to change - untimed tests for all

I have two kids with learning disabilities who are also very smart. By high school, most kids are aware of which kids leave the room for tests and why. I have had problems with the parents of my friends kids since they all started taking the SAT/ACT. Several of the parents I know suddenly want to grill me about my kids disabilities when they had no interest for the last 10 years. I've had to fight to get the school system to follow my kids ieps/504s and have been active in my sns groups. They were never interested. Now they seem to have the opinion that if your child is smart, they don't need accommodations. This scandal has made it so much worse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so tired of this fake LD to get accomodations thread. A professional has to document the diagnosis. If some of them can be bought, that is a different problem.

Just because peer do not SEE a disability, does not mean it does not exist. Learning disabilities by definition go with hi IQ often. The child is not performing up to their IQ OR has to work an inexplicable amount of time to get mediocre grades. Those are red flags. THEN someone educated on diagnosing LD gives a battery of tests. Yes, these diagnoses are more common in certain areas, because the tests are expensive and not everyone has access. You don't just get extra time because you ask for it.

I know- this entire scandal has been so hurtful to kids/families where there are special needs. My DS has the test accommodation that he takes a test in a non-distracting environment. We don't ask for extra time, even though his doctor recommended it-- but I don't begrudge parents who do. I know exactly why my kid would benefit in a fair way from extra time and I know why other kids with his profile would as well. I think parents worry that if my son with an LD is given a test accommodation that his score will compete their child's score. When it comes down to it, they believe he is less deserving to go to a good college because he couldn't have made that score without an accommodation.

+1 The issue is not that some kids have documented learning disabilities and need accommodations to function. It's that a set of wealthy privileged parents were paying other people to provide answers or even take tests on kids behalf.

Singer also encouraged parents to acquire false LD accommodation by faking performance during diagnostics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is definitely an issue with kids who have had no ld suddenly needing more test time. This is the kind of cheating that I hear about. Also teachers who want to help FA students by changing answers on standardized tests. This happens all the time as well.

Uh, what?

+1 What a cuckoo post. Legitimate accommodations for kids with learning needs are required by law. And if you had evidence of teachers changing answers on standardized tests, you would have reported it. But you don't.

Truth hurts. Many schools direct kids to a certain Dr and suddenly they an ld. I had no idea about extra time until my kid brought it up. DC noticed that suddenly a quarter of the class was getting extra time. Some kids would go into separate rooms as well. Happened on an outplacement year. Also found out that kids were getting extra tutoring that had FA for free. There is a lot of murky stuff going on at these schools. I think in the last few years some schools and parents have gotten bolder. Before you say things like someone is crazy bringing this up why din’t You ask your kid if they have noticed more kids getting time when for years they did not or other accommodations happening on an outplacement year.

You're a loon and a poor example for your child. Providing extra tutoring to kids on FA is not cheating, it just levels the playing field somewhat with kids with rich parents who can buy every advantage for their kid. That is entirely different from what you say which is that teachers are changing answers on standardized tests. Again, if you had proof, you would have said something. But you'd rather just babble lies on the internet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so tired of this fake LD to get accomodations thread. A professional has to document the diagnosis. If some of them can be bought, that is a different problem.

Just because peer do not SEE a disability, does not mean it does not exist. Learning disabilities by definition go with hi IQ often. The child is not performing up to their IQ OR has to work an inexplicable amount of time to get mediocre grades. Those are red flags. THEN someone educated on diagnosing LD gives a battery of tests. Yes, these diagnoses are more common in certain areas, because the tests are expensive and not everyone has access. You don't just get extra time because you ask for it.

I know- this entire scandal has been so hurtful to kids/families where there are special needs. My DS has the test accommodation that he takes a test in a non-distracting environment. We don't ask for extra time, even though his doctor recommended it-- but I don't begrudge parents who do. I know exactly why my kid would benefit in a fair way from extra time and I know why other kids with his profile would as well. I think parents worry that if my son with an LD is given a test accommodation that his score will compete their child's score. When it comes down to it, they believe he is less deserving to go to a good college because he couldn't have made that score without an accommodation.

+1 The issue is not that some kids have documented learning disabilities and need accommodations to function. It's that a set of wealthy privileged parents were paying other people to provide answers or even take tests on kids behalf.

Anonymous wrote:There may be a broader issue with fake accommodations within some high schools. But that's an enormous can of worms -- kids' psych medical records -- no one wants to go there.

It is not that unusual for the s-- to hit the fan, for a high school kid to suddenly bring home a bunch of Cs and fail diagnostic tests for attention. I'm not referring to the vague checklists, but there is some computerized testing for certain types of attention problems. This happened in our house. I'm still shocked and we're still working on treatment, as it turns out there is a medical problem underlying this. We are not jumping to attention meds unless absolutely necessary, but the underlying medical issue is going to take time, months at least. We have no plan to request accommodations and I think we'd still have a heap of testing to do if we wanted to pursue that (presumably the full neuropsych workup $$$). Meanwhile, 10th grade is wrapping up -- we are out of time.

About the kids with accommodations in the scandal, I have to wonder a bit about some of them - kids with parents of a certain intellectual capacity who do not perform within a similar ballpark could have LD issues, perhaps subclinical. This is one thought i haven't read anyplace. Those of you with 2E kids might understand what I'm trying to say... Not that it would remotely excuse the cheating, but it would explain the kid wanting accommodations, even though the parents may have gone about this in an entirely wrong way.

This was our experience. DS had always been energetic and impulsive but when we raised some concerns in ES the school psychologist said from her observations he was just immature and outgoing and he did seem to outgrow a lot of it by 5th grade (or so we thought since MS teachers didn't raise concerns). Then started failing classes early in Freshman year and we finally did the full evaluation we probably should have done years ago. ADHD-Combined and is now so much happier and doing well in school w/ medication. However, he's a little unusual in having a fast processing speed w/ the ADHD so he doesn't need extra time for testing (his challenge is to slow down so he doesn't make careless errors). "Extra time" was written into his 504 plan anyway, I guess it's just put down as a standard thing with ADHD. But, he's never taken advantage of it and we don't plan to for SAT/ACT testing.

Anonymous wrote:I am so tired of this fake LD to get accomodations thread. A professional has to document the diagnosis. If some of them can be bought, that is a different problem.

Just because peer do not SEE a disability, does not mean it does not exist. Learning disabilities by definition go with hi IQ often. The child is not performing up to their IQ OR has to work an inexplicable amount of time to get mediocre grades. Those are red flags. THEN someone educated on diagnosing LD gives a battery of tests. Yes, these diagnoses are more common in certain areas, because the tests are expensive and not everyone has access. You don't just get extra time because you ask for it.

I know- this entire scandal has been so hurtful to kids/families where there are special needs. My DS has the test accommodation that he takes a test in a non-distracting environment. We don't ask for extra time, even though his doctor recommended it-- but I don't begrudge parents who do. I know exactly why my kid would benefit in a fair way from extra time and I know why other kids with his profile would as well. I think parents worry that if my son with an LD is given a test accommodation that his score will compete their child's score. When it comes down to it, they believe he is less deserving to go to a good college because he couldn't have made that score without an accommodation.

There may be a broader issue with fake accommodations within some high schools. But that's an enormous can of worms -- kids' psych medical records -- no one wants to go there.

It is not that unusual for the s-- to hit the fan, for a high school kid to suddenly bring home a bunch of Cs and fail diagnostic tests for attention. I'm not referring to the vague checklists, but there is some computerized testing for certain types of attention problems. This happened in our house. I'm still shocked and we're still working on treatment, as it turns out there is a medical problem underlying this. We are not jumping to attention meds unless absolutely necessary, but the underlying medical issue is going to take time, months at least. We have no plan to request accommodations and I think we'd still have a heap of testing to do if we wanted to pursue that (presumably the full neuropsych workup $$$). Meanwhile, 10th grade is wrapping up -- we are out of time.

About the kids with accommodations in the scandal, I have to wonder a bit about some of them - kids with parents of a certain intellectual capacity who do not perform within a similar ballpark could have LD issues, perhaps subclinical. This is one thought i haven't read anyplace. Those of you with 2E kids might understand what I'm trying to say... Not that it would remotely excuse the cheating, but it would explain the kid wanting accommodations, even though the parents may have gone about this in an entirely wrong way.

I am so tired of this fake LD to get accomodations thread. A professional has to document the diagnosis. If some of them can be bought, that is a different problem.

Just because peer do not SEE a disability, does not mean it does not exist. Learning disabilities by definition go with hi IQ often. The child is not performing up to their IQ OR has to work an inexplicable amount of time to get mediocre grades. Those are red flags. THEN someone educated on diagnosing LD gives a battery of tests. Yes, these diagnoses are more common in certain areas, because the tests are expensive and not everyone has access. You don't just get extra time because you ask for it.

If the rich are willing to pay hundreds of thousands to get into middling universities, imagine what they would pay for embryos that actually have the genetics to handle the Ivy League. We are are about 5-10 years away from the ability to predict +/- 20% using GWAS the most “desirable” traits, including grit, IQ, fast twitch muscle, BMI, and facial attractiveness based on a DNA sample. The rich will be able to either pay for elite donors, or just select “the best” from the 20-30 embryos they produce on their own. And crispr might be able to provide even more precise refinement within 30 years.

The Chinese are probably doing it already. I wouldn’t be surprised if the wealthy are traveling to clinics in Czech or China within the next decade or so to select for “super embryos”. Steve Hsu’s company is always selecting against “intellectual disability”. Well, perhaps his customers will argue any IQ below 140, or BMI above 22, is a disability.

As I’ve followed the explosive growth in the science of GWAS over the last decade, I have wondered whether the above scenario was possible, but this scandal (i.e. what the wealthy are willing to pay for mere bragging rights) has made me convinced it’s the future.

Please don't write an article that mixes up the normal things parents do to raise children when they have money to purchase things with fraud and building donations.

We had sufficient means to purchase tutoring services when we needed to. We signed up for schools early. We don't travel in the circles Jared does.

So yeah, my kid is fairly privileged (not denying that), but we are irrelevant for nearly everything causing outrage right now. When the distinction is mixed up, your audience tunes out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just canceled my Wash Post subscription. Stay away.

+1. Every single article is now political. And I'm not even a Trumper! We call it WaPravda.

But at least the reporter is asking questions and not seeking support for a conclusion she already reached -- like the last time a reporter came on here asking something about Christmas celebrations as I recall.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just canceled my Wash Post subscription. Stay away.

+1. Every single article is now political. And I'm not even a Trumper! We call it WaPravda.

So a hundred page thread of anonymous posts on the scandal, and salivating over the possibility of a Washington angle is fine, but you wouldn't read an article with actual reporting and people willing to use their names raising similar points in print? Why shouldn't there be room for stories like that? I have nothing to contribute, but I'd read it, certainly seems like there's enough interest to justify coverage.