Anonymous wrote:I read an article about “snowplow parenting” , connecting it to the Ivy League admissions cheating scandal. I don’t have the resources to bribe anyone to get anything. However, I recognized myself in these parents. Over involved, controlling, somewhat obsessed. I’m constantly asking about friends, making “suggestions”, ie you should say this, text that. I already have a list of the best colleges and graduate schools for my middle schooler. I know I need to turn it way down, but it’s almost compulsive. I’m admitting this in this cruel space, expecting verbal abuse but hoping for suggestions. Is there a 12 step program from kid addiction?!

I hear you and recognize a little of myself in your post (though, with my great restraint, I waited until dd was a freshman to start searching best college programs-ha)! I guess we just need to focus on the day to day more and recognize they don't need us as much, so we should invest some of that energy elsewhere. Hang in there, and ignore the nasties. You love your kid, and that's cool.

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to hear some examples of where parents let their child fail (or potentially fail). We had one example where a parent didn't help a child with a school project. Are there other examples? Other than with schoolwork, I'm having a hard time finding examples in my parenting and I don't really consider myself a "snowplow" parent.

Example - Non-athletic DC went out for rowing in HS because his best friend was doing it. The team was no-cut, but DC didn't try and work hard and was basically the last rower in the worst boat. Best friend was a star rower, won medals, etc. etc. DC had never failed at something before, had never needed to work hard to achieve a goal. He was going to quit rowing forever after that. But something clicked the summer after freshman year - I'm not sure what, but DC decided he was going to make the best boat on the rowing team. He researched workout plans and got stronger and faster. He worked his tail off. To make a long story short, he did make the top boat senior year and won medals and championships, and that experience has given him a tremendous amount of confidence in himself.

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to hear some examples of where parents let their child fail (or potentially fail). We had one example where a parent didn't help a child with a school project. Are there other examples? Other than with schoolwork, I'm having a hard time finding examples in my parenting and I don't really consider myself a "snowplow" parent.

I think of it as benign neglect, as a friend put it. I'm not all over my kids. Weekend mornings, the older two (7 and 5) go play in the basement or backyard after breakfast, and most of what I do is tell them to work stuff out, should they come upstairs complaining. Same if we go to the playground: I may play with them a bit, but mostly redirect them to do their own thing (the three year old gets more attention since he's three, but I still leave him to his devices as much as is feasible). If they're bored, I tell them to find something to do. I once helped my oldest create a list of stuff she could do when bored, but then it was on her to refer back to that. With a few exceptions, I let them wear whatever they want. If they complain later they were cold or hot or got a blister, we talk about what they could have done differently. I don't think of it as failure so much as encouraging (strongly, at times) self-direction and self-discipline. I imagine these examples will change as they get older, but for now, that's what it looks like in our house.

FWIW, the one thing I'm more explicit in teaching them about is emotional development and regulation, because I think that's absolutely foundational for later life. We don't emphasize "academic" achievement in preschool and early elementary, but I care very, very much that they have tools for regulating themselves, they understand what emotions are, etc. I think that's the kind of stuff that can really, really help kids be independent and flexible later on, and which gets very short shrift in many of these snowplow (and helicopter) situations.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about getting your own life?
Seriously.

If you have your own identity and your own self-worth, then you don’t need your kid’s life to fill yours. If your entire identity is about being Larla’s mom, then you obsess about Larla. But if you’re a great co-worker or a great painter or great lover of reading or a great volunteer at a shelter, then there’s no need to derive your identity from your kid.

I have middle schooler and high schooler. I’m engaged in what’s going on in their lives, but up to a point if only because I just don’t have the energy or brain power to be obsessive. I have other things in my life—friends, work, interests—that also take up that energy and brain power. And it also helps that I have a spouse that is both a great friend and is engaged with our kids. We share that and would definitely check the other if one was becoming consumed with our kids’ lives.

So start with doing something that is totally unrelated to your kid. Sign up for a class or commit to reading or get a job outside the home (if you don’t have one).

Mine are 3 and 4, and I can admit that I don't really have any friends or hobbies. My whole identity is in them.

Some of that is the ages though. They are reliant on your for everything. That is a big time suck. You can't go for a run for 30 minutes on a nice day or really do anything without arranging it in advance. Things will change in that respect. At least you will have the opportunity for change

Anonymous wrote:I am a snowplow parent and don’t apologize for it or feel bad. Social media allowing me to connect back with people I knew growing up has taught me that who you are as a teen is who you are as an adult and the ones who change are exceptions not the rule.

The kids who were smart, involved, organized, out going and put together as teens are the adults who are still that way and have great careers and have done very well. You can tell by their career choice, place they live, activities they do now, etc. this is the kind of thing you glean not from their over happy posts but the background in the posts and their LinkedIn profiles and in some cases published work, and so on

The kids like me who were in the middle - did ok, got by went to college, got a normal job and so on - stayed the same in adulthood. We may have talked a good game back in the day about having ambition but we weren’t going to do anything to hard to achieve them.

I can also see now but couldn’t see when I was a teen that social skills build on themselves and kids who miss out on developing them at each stage life do end up a bit farther behind the curve each year and catching up becomes very difficult.

I know there are going to be plenty of posts telling me how wrong I am but remember exceptions are what people advertise and talk about. No one brags about the literal millions who do not become exceptions.

I am one of those people who was high achieving in high school, and have gone on to have a happy and successful adulthood. My parents did what they could to support my goals, but the goals were always mine, not theirs. I did the work, I made the plans. I got where I am today because of internal motivation. My siblings had the same parents. One turned out like your example of kids in the middle. The other has made a mess of her life. You admit yourself that you were not willing to work hard to achieve your ambitious goals. You know who else doesn't work hard? Kids who don't ever learn to do the hard work, because their parents push all obstacles out of their way.
Being truly successful requires internal motivation. You can't force that on your kids.

All the analogies have to be with some kind of vehicle? Helicopter...snowplow....?

Ok, I'll play. I am an "automatic-mine-sweeper-with-state-of-art-high-tech-sensors" parent. In other words, I look at my kid with a very clear eye - weaknesses, strengths, passions, future growth - and then look at what he need to do in the next 6 months, year, 4 year etc., to reach goals. Then I ask him what he wants to do, his goals, his dreams etc, and chart out what steps are needed to reach those goals.

To put in the work for short term and long term is my kid's responsibility, not mine. What needs to be done, who are the best resources, what are the best pathways - these do get researched by me and presented to my DC. The grunt work based on the framework is my kid's responsibility. I am not monitoring grades, assignments, exams, tests. I expect a steller report card and highest academic performance through school. I expect a great resume for college with EC, community work etc. I expect that my kid will do that on his own and will ask for help if he needs it. I expect time management and project management skills in juggling every thing. I am available for all logistical support - food, clothes, material, tutors, transportation, fees, research, travelling, medical, college funding - and I am available 24/7. But at the end of it all, if he needs to put in work 5 hours after school every day - I am cool with it.

And if he cannot hack writing his own essays after all the enrichment he has been given over years - he does not deserve to be in college!

I'd like to hear some examples of where parents let their child fail (or potentially fail). We had one example where a parent didn't help a child with a school project. Are there other examples? Other than with schoolwork, I'm having a hard time finding examples in my parenting and I don't really consider myself a "snowplow" parent.

Op here- Thank you all for your responses, so thoughtful and empathetic . I’m honestly moved and feel empowered to get myself together. I had been contemplating discussing this topic with my oldest. I love the suggestion about reading the article together. I feel like I need to start with an apology though and acknowledge that I have been way too much. I’ll still be Mom of course, enforcing the rules around self-care, academics, kindness, etc. I just have to back off from the daily interrogations and trying to be the puppet master of every step they take! I’m so grateful for all the input. From my heart, thank you!!

I get what you're saying, OP, but expanding opportunities for your kid is different than getting all obstacles out of their way. You can strategically support and help identify cool things for your child--or colleges that would be a particularly good fit for them--without going to great lengths to give them every advantage. That stunts them so badly.

I'm with 8:48 on what I want for my kids, and me handing it all to them won't get them to be the kind of adults that thrive in a complex world.

And, of course people with SN deserve accommodations. It wouldn't occur to me to consider that snowplowing; it's being the best parent to the child you have. Part of that becomes helping them to learn to advocate for themselves. Eventually, they're going to be the ones telling their college professors and employers about the help they need, and working to get them to that place matters, too.

Anonymous wrote:The thing is these type of parents really and truly think they are doing their job. You simply can't convince them otherwise. A friend says her high school daughter is really anxious about school and that's just her personality. I refrain from reminding her how she reviewed and corrected her child's schoolwork every night in elementary and middle school and supervised every project and science fair. She thought her husband was actually neglectful because he didn't do it.

Nothing wrong with checking HW to make sure your kid understands the material, but I draw the line at getting involved in projects, unless it's something the child really does need help with. Luckily, my kids have done their own projects with very minimal help/guidance from me.

One time I tried to make suggestions on a project to my DS, and he started to get agitated so I backed off. Sometimes he does take suggestions, though. I think that's important for them to learn, too, the ability to take criticism and suggestions.

Anonymous wrote:I actually read that article with my 12 year old and had a discussion about what a parent’s job is. We talked about why parents might feel like they need to prevent their kids from making certain kinds of mistakes. She came up with some scenarios of problems she might face and we talked about what an under-involved, over-involved, and middle ground response might be, and the ways those things might overlap. I hope I’m giving her the vocabulary to push back if she sees me snowplowing, but also to understand why I might let her struggle when her friends’ parents are making things easy for them. The over the top examples in the article really helped too - Do you want your parents arranging play dates for you when you’re in college? Do you want to come home from college because you can’t eat sauce?

Awesome. Really great opportunity you made for rich discussion with your child. I think I'll do this.

The thing is these type of parents really and truly think they are doing their job. You simply can't convince them otherwise. A friend says her high school daughter is really anxious about school and that's just her personality. I refrain from reminding her how she reviewed and corrected her child's schoolwork every night in elementary and middle school and supervised every project and science fair. She thought her husband was actually neglectful because he didn't do it.

Anonymous wrote:How about getting your own life?
Seriously.

If you have your own identity and your own self-worth, then you don’t need your kid’s life to fill yours. If your entire identity is about being Larla’s mom, then you obsess about Larla. But if you’re a great co-worker or a great painter or great lover of reading or a great volunteer at a shelter, then there’s no need to derive your identity from your kid.

I have middle schooler and high schooler. I’m engaged in what’s going on in their lives, but up to a point if only because I just don’t have the energy or brain power to be obsessive. I have other things in my life—friends, work, interests—that also take up that energy and brain power. And it also helps that I have a spouse that is both a great friend and is engaged with our kids. We share that and would definitely check the other if one was becoming consumed with our kids’ lives.

So start with doing something that is totally unrelated to your kid. Sign up for a class or commit to reading or get a job outside the home (if you don’t have one).

Mine are 3 and 4, and I can admit that I don't really have any friends or hobbies. My whole identity is in them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a snowplow parent and don’t apologize for it or feel bad. Social media allowing me to connect back with people I knew growing up has taught me that who you are as a teen is who you are as an adult and the ones who change are exceptions not the rule.

The kids who were smart, involved, organized, out going and put together as teens are the adults who are still that way and have great careers and have done very well. You can tell by their career choice, place they live, activities they do now, etc. this is the kind of thing you glean not from their over happy posts but the background in the posts and their LinkedIn profiles and in some cases published work, and so on

The kids like me who were in the middle - did ok, got by went to college, got a normal job and so on - stayed the same in adulthood. We may have talked a good game back in the day about having ambition but we weren’t going to do anything to hard to achieve them.

I can also see now but couldn’t see when I was a teen that social skills build on themselves and kids who miss out on developing them at each stage life do end up a bit farther behind the curve each year and catching up becomes very difficult.

I know there are going to be plenty of posts telling me how wrong I am but remember exceptions are what people advertise and talk about. No one brags about the literal millions who do not become exceptions.

Op here. I think you touched on a deeper layer of my fear. I think of the opportunities I missed out on as a teenager due to laziness and ignorance. I was asked by a teacher to move to an advanced science class in 9th grade. I said no because I didn’t want to work that hard. So many other social opportunities I rejected because I felt more comfortable with my friends from the neighborhood. Don’t even get me started about bad dating choices. I learned from my mistakes. I was raised middle class and am still middle class. I just want better for my children. This drives the compulsion to know everything, to comment on everything, to intervene and give advice about everything! I’m not proud of my parenting right now.

I appreciate all the responses and will check out the book suggested.

There is a vast difference between being a "snowplow" or "lawnmower parent" and a parent who guides them in their lives. One removes all obstacles, or makes the natural obstacles easier, while the other teaches their kids to overcome the obstacles, and when they fail, to get back up and keep going.

I educate my kids about their choices.. if you take x class, you could do y next. I encouraged them to go to a magnet school, but ultimately left the decision to him. I don't force him to do those things. We have a discussion about it, and ok... I do nudge them a bit. As for social issues, we've had our fair share, especially with DD last year. I tried not to interfere, but I did talk to her about the issues and we role played. It was a tough year.. not gonna lie.

I do force them to eat their vegetables, brush their teeth, take a shower, and make their bed, though, and do their chores.

As an Asian American immigrant from a poor family, I do have to check my "tiger parenting" ways. When I find myself getting a bit too close to the tiger parenting ways, I can see it in the faces of my kids and in their body language. I then have to take a step back. Watch your kids carefully, and take cues from their body language.

I actually read that article with my 12 year old and had a discussion about what a parent’s job is. We talked about why parents might feel like they need to prevent their kids from making certain kinds of mistakes. She came up with some scenarios of problems she might face and we talked about what an under-involved, over-involved, and middle ground response might be, and the ways those things might overlap. I hope I’m giving her the vocabulary to push back if she sees me snowplowing, but also to understand why I might let her struggle when her friends’ parents are making things easy for them. The over the top examples in the article really helped too - Do you want your parents arranging play dates for you when you’re in college? Do you want to come home from college because you can’t eat sauce?