Anonymous wrote:Here’s the question: why are there so few schools that are on the level of Styvesant et al when there are clearly thousands of smart kids who may not make this cut, but are still very talented. Seems nuts to me.

In NYC? There are 8 specialized high schools in the NYC public school system.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“This is actually tricky -
Admission to Stuyvesant is determined by a single test avail to all middle school students in NYC.There are no soft criteria-no interviews,no legacy favoritism, no strings to be pulled. It’s all abt test score which determines if you can handle academics.”

- Stephanie Ruhle, MSNBC

Maggie Haberman, NYT, quoted Ruhle to say:
“White students generally have more means with which to prep for this test, some doing it for years. Yes it’s a test, no it is not an equal playing field.”

I’m not sure why Maggie used white when Asians are the ones dominating this system.

The simple truth is that Asian relative overperformance demonstrates that “discrimination” is not a significant driver of outcomes on this sort of test. It has always been a very inconvenient truth for those who insist all groups are equally talented, generally ignored because of that inconvenience, and because Asians didn’t seem to want to make a big issue out of it. Now there is a critical mass of Asians who are going to resist getting shafted in the name of diversity. Will be interesting to see how that all works out.

You think it's a level playing field? So it's just pure talent that is being compared by these tests?

um yeah. There are poor and middle class asian kids who are getting in. That throws out race and SES as an excuse

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be curious to see the number of each racial group that applied... or are students selected from the entire NYC public school pool without needing to opt in?

NY Times coverage of this has been tops:

https://www.nytimes.com/topic/organization/stuyvesant-high-school

if by tops you mean extremely biased

They basically are making the claim that the test is racist

um no its based on aptitude

Funny, when I took that SAT there were multiple sports analogies and people were saying it was biased for boys.

Men said, women have equal access to sports. Eventually the sports analogies were removed.

You really can't see how the test might be biased?

If anything, the test would be biased against poor immigrant Asian kids. I knew several Stuy kids whose parents spoke ZERO English at home and who grew up in immigrant enclaves.

Here’s the question: why are there so few schools that are on the level of Styvesant et al when there are clearly thousands of smart kids who may not make this cut, but are still very talented. Seems nuts to me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“This is actually tricky -
Admission to Stuyvesant is determined by a single test avail to all middle school students in NYC.There are no soft criteria-no interviews,no legacy favoritism, no strings to be pulled. It’s all abt test score which determines if you can handle academics.”

- Stephanie Ruhle, MSNBC

Maggie Haberman, NYT, quoted Ruhle to say:
“White students generally have more means with which to prep for this test, some doing it for years. Yes it’s a test, no it is not an equal playing field.”

I’m not sure why Maggie used white when Asians are the ones dominating this system.

The simple truth is that Asian relative overperformance demonstrates that “discrimination” is not a significant driver of outcomes on this sort of test. It has always been a very inconvenient truth for those who insist all groups are equally talented, generally ignored because of that inconvenience, and because Asians didn’t seem to want to make a big issue out of it. Now there is a critical mass of Asians who are going to resist getting shafted in the name of diversity. Will be interesting to see how that all works out.

Um, different ethnic groups face different types of discrimination. Surely you get this?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test Prep

Test prep was offered free.

Is that the one and only barrier? Cost of test prep?

It has a pretty high FARMS rate... a rate that most people on this forum would consider too high to be a "good" school. 45%.

Somehow, these low income families seem to figure out how to pay for the test prep.

https://data.nysed.gov/enrollment.php?year=2017&instid=800000046741

Their is test prep and the school system that they come from.

? And? They work hard to get in. Why shouldn't they be rewarded for it. Isn't that why we are all mad about the recent college scandal.. because kids with money are getting in instead of from their hard work?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“This is actually tricky -
Admission to Stuyvesant is determined by a single test avail to all middle school students in NYC.There are no soft criteria-no interviews,no legacy favoritism, no strings to be pulled. It’s all abt test score which determines if you can handle academics.”

- Stephanie Ruhle, MSNBC

Maggie Haberman, NYT, quoted Ruhle to say:
“White students generally have more means with which to prep for this test, some doing it for years. Yes it’s a test, no it is not an equal playing field.”

I’m not sure why Maggie used white when Asians are the ones dominating this system.

The simple truth is that Asian relative overperformance demonstrates that “discrimination” is not a significant driver of outcomes on this sort of test. It has always been a very inconvenient truth for those who insist all groups are equally talented, generally ignored because of that inconvenience, and because Asians didn’t seem to want to make a big issue out of it. Now there is a critical mass of Asians who are going to resist getting shafted in the name of diversity. Will be interesting to see how that all works out.

You think it's a level playing field? So it's just pure talent that is being compared by these tests?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be curious to see the number of each racial group that applied... or are students selected from the entire NYC public school pool without needing to opt in?

NY Times coverage of this has been tops:

https://www.nytimes.com/topic/organization/stuyvesant-high-school

if by tops you mean extremely biased

They basically are making the claim that the test is racist

um no its based on aptitude

Funny, when I took that SAT there were multiple sports analogies and people were saying it was biased for boys.

Men said, women have equal access to sports. Eventually the sports analogies were removed.

You really can't see how the test might be biased?

When did you take the SAT?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“This is actually tricky -
Admission to Stuyvesant is determined by a single test avail to all middle school students in NYC.There are no soft criteria-no interviews,no legacy favoritism, no strings to be pulled. It’s all abt test score which determines if you can handle academics.”

- Stephanie Ruhle, MSNBC

Maggie Haberman, NYT, quoted Ruhle to say:
“White students generally have more means with which to prep for this test, some doing it for years. Yes it’s a test, no it is not an equal playing field.”

I’m not sure why Maggie used white when Asians are the ones dominating this system.

The simple truth is that Asian relative overperformance demonstrates that “discrimination” is not a significant driver of outcomes on this sort of test. It has always been a very inconvenient truth for those who insist all groups are equally talented, generally ignored because of that inconvenience, and because Asians didn’t seem to want to make a big issue out of it. Now there is a critical mass of Asians who are going to resist getting shafted in the name of diversity. Will be interesting to see how that all works out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be curious to see the number of each racial group that applied... or are students selected from the entire NYC public school pool without needing to opt in?

NY Times coverage of this has been tops:

https://www.nytimes.com/topic/organization/stuyvesant-high-school

if by tops you mean extremely biased

They basically are making the claim that the test is racist

um no its based on aptitude

Funny, when I took that SAT there were multiple sports analogies and people were saying it was biased for boys.

Men said, women have equal access to sports. Eventually the sports analogies were removed.

You really can't see how the test might be biased?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be curious to see the number of each racial group that applied... or are students selected from the entire NYC public school pool without needing to opt in?

NY Times coverage of this has been tops:

https://www.nytimes.com/topic/organization/stuyvesant-high-school

if by tops you mean extremely biased

They basically are making the claim that the test is racist

um no its based on aptitude

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test Prep

Test prep was offered free.

Is that the one and only barrier? Cost of test prep?

It has a pretty high FARMS rate... a rate that most people on this forum would consider too high to be a "good" school. 45%.

Somehow, these low income families seem to figure out how to pay for the test prep.

https://data.nysed.gov/enrollment.php?year=2017&instid=800000046741

Their is test prep and the school system that they come from.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“This is actually tricky -
Admission to Stuyvesant is determined by a single test avail to all middle school students in NYC.There are no soft criteria-no interviews,no legacy favoritism, no strings to be pulled. It’s all abt test score which determines if you can handle academics.”

- Stephanie Ruhle, MSNBC

Maggie Haberman, NYT, quoted Ruhle to say:
“White students generally have more means with which to prep for this test, some doing it for years. Yes it’s a test, no it is not an equal playing field.”

I’m not sure why Maggie used white when Asians are the ones dominating this system.

Maybe because the # of white students have a higher % of offers for all of the magnet schools? 26.5% offers but 18.1% of test takers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test Prep

Test prep was offered free.

No equivalent to one on one tutoring.

Anonymous wrote:“This is actually tricky -
Admission to Stuyvesant is determined by a single test avail to all middle school students in NYC.There are no soft criteria-no interviews,no legacy favoritism, no strings to be pulled. It’s all abt test score which determines if you can handle academics.”

- Stephanie Ruhle, MSNBC

Maggie Haberman, NYT, quoted Ruhle to say:
“White students generally have more means with which to prep for this test, some doing it for years. Yes it’s a test, no it is not an equal playing field.”

I’m not sure why Maggie used white when Asians are the ones dominating this system.