Anonymous wrote:There’s a big difference between physical dependence and addiction. Most of the examples in this thread are of dependence. Yes, if you just suddenly discontinue taking them, you’ll get sick. That doesn’t mean you are “addicted.” Addiction is a harmful behavior pattern, seeking more than prescribed, taking the med for emotional reasons, etc. Opiates taken as prescribed and at low doses are helpful for some people.

People have to taper off psychiatric meds, too, because of physical dependence. We don’t say people are addicted to SSRIs.

+1

Watch some documentaries and news stories on YouTube. There are MANY where an addict is saying that it all started for them with just one dose or injection and then they were hooked.

There’s a big difference between physical dependence and addiction. Most of the examples in this thread are of dependence. Yes, if you just suddenly discontinue taking them, you’ll get sick. That doesn’t mean you are “addicted.” Addiction is a harmful behavior pattern, seeking more than prescribed, taking the med for emotional reasons, etc. Opiates taken as prescribed and at low doses are helpful for some people.

People have to taper off psychiatric meds, too, because of physical dependence. We don’t say people are addicted to SSRIs.

I believe the majority of the literature (the real stuff, not the doctored studies used by the pharma companies) says opioids, when used properly, can become addictive after 5 days.

Fwiw, dad with the knee replacement had no idea that he was dependent until he had to quit cold turkey. He thought he was doing as directed.

My dad is old-school midwestern man in his mid 70s. He didn't see doctors much throughout his life. He has medicare now and had a knee replacement. They gave him oxycontin and probably told him to take it every 4 hours and to "stay ahead of the pain."

So he follows dr's orders and takes the pills. After 20 days, he runs out. He goes to the walmart pharmacy to get a refill. They say they can't refill it. He thought they just didn't have the meds. He went to another walmart pharmacy and that one explained that he (dad) was not allowed a refill unless he saw his dr, and I think it had to be 30 days since his first prescription. So he didn't get any more from walmart pharmacy #2.

He went home. And that's when detox hit. He had chills, couldn't eat, couldn't sleep. Felt terrible for a week.....

So, now I understand how an average person can get addicted after a few weeks. Fortunately he had the will to suffer through. But, that's how easy it is to have physical addiction...3 weeks or less.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think general agreement is that opioids should be (mostly) reserved for terminally ill patients. Acute pain can be treated with methods as mentioned above. Chronic pain, while able to be managed by opioids, has the problem of long-term use, hence potential addiction, potential overdose, and potential tolerance, which of course leads back to overdose and addiction

So how should chronic pain be treated?

Opioids make chronic pain worse, believe it or not.

Chronic pain is really difficult to treat, and the best treatment depends on the type of pain. If it’s neurological, then medications that work on the central nervous system are prescribed, such as antidepressants and anti-epileptics. Physical therapy helps with many types of pain. Meditation and biofeedback help reduce perception of pain and physical tension, which increase pain, as well as the stress caused by pain. In some cases anti-inflamatories or cannabis can be appropriate. But a lot of the time there is no pill that makes chronic pain go away; the best that one can hope for is a reduction in pain and/or an increase in function.

Ok. I’m off to pop an Advil, and meditate my RA pain away.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For some people, one dose.

For others, it's more.

Question is, do you think it's worth the risk to find out?

Do you think it's worth the risk to try alcohol? Some people become addicted, you know.

Do you think it's worth the risk to drive a car? Fly in a plane? Some people have died that way.

Do you think it's worth the risk to try losing a few pounds? Some people become addicted to exercise, calorie restriction, laxatives...

Do you think it's worth the risk to find out if you are allergic to the dyes they use when you get certain types of MRIs? You won't know until you're injected.

The state of our education system right here. None of this is remotely analagous to opioids. It is proven that these can become addictive and/or deadly immediately for many people and in most cases, there are better and safer alternatives.

Opioids are not cohol, plane rides or dyes. Seriously.

Under the supervision of a doctor and taken as directed--as in used, not literally abused--they are effective and fine for most people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think general agreement is that opioids should be (mostly) reserved for terminally ill patients. Acute pain can be treated with methods as mentioned above. Chronic pain, while able to be managed by opioids, has the problem of long-term use, hence potential addiction, potential overdose, and potential tolerance, which of course leads back to overdose and addiction

So how should chronic pain be treated?

Opioids make chronic pain worse, believe it or not.

Chronic pain is really difficult to treat, and the best treatment depends on the type of pain. If it’s neurological, then medications that work on the central nervous system are prescribed, such as antidepressants and anti-epileptics. Physical therapy helps with many types of pain. Meditation and biofeedback help reduce perception of pain and physical tension, which increase pain, as well as the stress caused by pain. In some cases anti-inflamatories or cannabis can be appropriate. But a lot of the time there is no pill that makes chronic pain go away; the best that one can hope for is a reduction in pain and/or an increase in function.

There are plenty of weekend heroin users. As long as they stick to once a week, they can avoid dependence. But typically they only do this for so long before they think they are resistant to addiction, start doing it more frequently, and end up dependent.

Of course, since the introduction of fentanyl all users are at risk of dying every time they use.

I read somewhere that it's about 3 days before some serious change happens.

I had mild opiate withdrawal symptoms after a month of daily oxycodone. Fortunately I was well informed about opiate withdrawal, so I didn’t panic. Knowing the physiology of what was happening to me helped me fight the urge to seek more drugs or self-medicate in another harmful way. I’m not trying to say I am stronger or better than those who go down a path of addiction, just that I think education can help.

Anonymous wrote:I think general agreement is that opioids should be (mostly) reserved for terminally ill patients. Acute pain can be treated with methods as mentioned above. Chronic pain, while able to be managed by opioids, has the problem of long-term use, hence potential addiction, potential overdose, and potential tolerance, which of course leads back to overdose and addiction

So how should chronic pain be treated?

It took me about a week to get hooked after breaking my leg.

I think general agreement is that opioids should be (mostly) reserved for terminally ill patients. Acute pain can be treated with methods as mentioned above. Chronic pain, while able to be managed by opioids, has the problem of long-term use, hence potential addiction, potential overdose, and potential tolerance, which of course leads back to overdose and addiction