Anonymous wrote:I can't get over how often I hear UMC parents of average students describe their kids this way. Yes, I know it's possible to be both gifted and learning disabled, but I have a hard time believing it's really as prevalent as it seems to be in this area. I suspect that many of these parents just can't accept that their kids don't have above average intelligence and they are looking for ways to explain their kids mediocrity in a way that is more palatable to them.

x100000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because no one wants average kids. Everyone around here seems to think there kid is super smart or has SN.

The SN forum is full of people who want neurotypical kids.

+1. This thread is so nasty. My kid has an IQ of over 140, and has wicked ADHD. Would I like to have been able to send him to a regular preschool, and regular camps? Yes! Would I like for him to be able to have playdates without getting that look from the other mom? Yes! Would I like to save the $10-20,000 I spend every year on special therapy and treatments, and all the heartache of wondering if I've got the right treatment plan or am medicating him too much or too little or with the wrong stuff? Yes! Yes! Yes! I'd trade 30 IQ points easily for that, but no one gave me that choice.

Also, it's pretty well acknowledged that the rates of ADHD, ASD and probably other LDs are increasing due to all the chemicals in the environment, many of which are known to be neurotoxic. (And most of which we grew up consuming, so it's stored in our fat tissues and released to the fetus while we gestate or maybe even in our breastmilk.) (There's also interesting research being done linking it to gut flora, so all the antiobiotics we consume in our food is maybe a factor as well.) So if this all bothers you, call your Congressional rep and encourage them to pass stricter laws governing pesticides and other chemicals.

No, this is not "pretty well known", that this is causing higher rates of disorders. And keep in mind, Autism was essentially an unheard of disorder until Rainman came out. Then the diagnosis took off like crazy. The reason the rates of these disorders have increased is because parents are more likely to suspect a disorder if there kid seems somewhat outside the norm. There's no evidence that anything has actually changed with people.

Anonymous wrote:The way I see it, their kid tested high IQ in one area and lower in another, making it average IQ. But, now there is an excuse that this is a proof of a learning disability. Rather than what we all know it to be, all people are stronger in some areas and weaker in some areas. But, rich can buy these diagnoses. my DD tested the same, high verbal, lower reasoning. Psychologist never once mentioned 2e to me, never. She has 504 and is considered SN, and nothing else. So what if her English scores on SAT are fraction under 800? Her math score is low, hence her score is average. If child has low processing speed that child will end up with a low IQ testing score. The rest of made up by parents as 2e. I don't believe in 2E, and I never have. I am a parent of two SN kids. Sure they are smart about somethings, but they are SN kids. 2e is a BS concept.

Teacher here. I don't think it's totally BS. I have seen some kids that I would truly label as 2E. But I do believe the majority of kids with this label are just somewhat more pronounced in their strengths and weaknesses than most. Most 2E kids I've seen, I would not really characterize as gifted. Actually most of the gifted kids I see, I wouldn't characterize as truly gifted either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because no one wants average kids. Everyone around here seems to think there kid is super smart or has SN.

The SN forum is full of people who want neurotypical kids.

+1. This thread is so nasty. My kid has an IQ of over 140, and has wicked ADHD. Would I like to have been able to send him to a regular preschool, and regular camps? Yes! Would I like for him to be able to have playdates without getting that look from the other mom? Yes! Would I like to save the $10-20,000 I spend every year on special therapy and treatments, and all the heartache of wondering if I've got the right treatment plan or am medicating him too much or too little or with the wrong stuff? Yes! Yes! Yes! I'd trade 30 IQ points easily for that, but no one gave me that choice.

Also, it's pretty well acknowledged that the rates of ADHD, ASD and probably other LDs are increasing due to all the chemicals in the environment, many of which are known to be neurotoxic. (And most of which we grew up consuming, so it's stored in our fat tissues and released to the fetus while we gestate or maybe even in our breastmilk.) (There's also interesting research being done linking it to gut flora, so all the antiobiotics we consume in our food is maybe a factor as well.) So if this all bothers you, call your Congressional rep and encourage them to pass stricter laws governing pesticides and other chemicals.

Anonymou[b wrote:s]In part because we now pathologize cognitive differences that can be part of superior intellectual performance: ADHD, autism, even dyslexia.[/b] These are often genetic, so someone who succeeded with these characteristics to become UMC will pass them down. Also these cognitive differences do some with downsides and weaknesses, so parents who struggled as kids (even if they ultimately succeeded in college and career) now want to help their own kids do better.

Definitely also an aspect of anxious helicoptering too, though.

I think this is it. We are pathologizing cognitive differences that are really part of what determines overall intelligence.

Anonymous wrote:Where are you hearing this? People whose kids are doing just fine and not having any issue (i.e., not learning disabilities and no need for greater supplementation because they're advanced) aren't going to post here about their kids, the kids you hear about will be the ones where there's something not working.

As for it being predominantly UMC families, it's because those are the families that have the resources to dig into any sign that something might be going on. For families who are just making ends meet, they don't have a few thousand dollars sitting around to throw at testing to find out that Larla is daydreaming in class is because she's advanced and has ADHD rather than just being "a little spacey."

For many UMC parents, having a kid who is actually a B student (in regular classes not advanced) seems off to them. They think their kid is smarter than that, and this turns into a diagnosis of kid being twice exceptional, not kid is just intellectually average.

Anonymous wrote:Because parents want to have smart kids. Parents focus on what junior is good at. “He’s good at math! He’s gifted!”

Then when he performs in the average to above average range they get junior tested.

Testing comes back to show that he is strong in math. He has FRI (fluid reasoning) in the gifted range.

But...his real IQ (FSIQ) is lower. Not that gifted. Above average.

Parents pursue ADHD innatentive diagnosis. (Or whatever LD fits the profile. But ADHD is the easiest.)

Presto! He’s 2e.

Personally, I believe a 2e child should have a gifted FSIQ. Gifted kids do come with LDs. But they have to be gifted! And one sunscore doesn’t make junior gifted. Everyone has strengths. Either junior is average with a strength in fluid reasoning. Or he has an LD with a strength in verbal reasoning. He’s not gifted. Or 2e. But that’s my opinion. And the parents of juniors out there will argue tooth and nail against it.

I have always suspected that if you dug deep enough, just about anyone could have some characteristics that could fit into a "disorder". Do you think that's what's going on here? I don't think that the psychologists who are doing the testing are shady, but couldn't just about everyone's quirks or deficiencies be labeled a disorder if you went to great lengths to identify them?

The way I see it, their kid tested high IQ in one area and lower in another, making it average IQ. But, now there is an excuse that this is a proof of a learning disability. Rather than what we all know it to be, all people are stronger in some areas and weaker in some areas. But, rich can buy these diagnoses. my DD tested the same, high verbal, lower reasoning. Psychologist never once mentioned 2e to me, never. She has 504 and is considered SN, and nothing else. So what if her English scores on SAT are fraction under 800? Her math score is low, hence her score is average. If child has low processing speed that child will end up with a low IQ testing score. The rest of made up by parents as 2e. I don't believe in 2E, and I never have. I am a parent of two SN kids. Sure they are smart about somethings, but they are SN kids. 2e is a BS concept.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s the real reason. So they can get accommodations in the classroom and EXTENDED TIME on tests. Who wouldn’t want their child to get unlimited time for the SAT if they could come up for a phony reason that they need it!

It’s not unlimited time. It’s time and a half. That said, tests determine if the student is SPED. If there is a considerable discrepancy between language and math processing speed then the child is SPED.

No, that's not true. You can't diagnose any DSM condition on the basis of processing speed alone; nor can a discrepancy in processing speed be what qualifies you for an IEP under IDEA.

It's called rich privilege.

Anonymous wrote:Here’s the real reason. So they can get accommodations in the classroom and EXTENDED TIME on tests. Who wouldn’t want their child to get unlimited time for the SAT if they could come up for a phony reason that they need it!

It’s not unlimited time. It’s time and a half. That said, tests determine if the student is SPED. If there is a considerable discrepancy between language and math processing speed then the child is SPED.

Because they are nuts?

Anonymous wrote:I can't get over how often I hear UMC parents of average students describe their kids this way. Yes, I know it's possible to be both gifted and learning disabled, but I have a hard time believing it's really as prevalent as it seems to be in this area. I suspect that many of these parents just can't accept that their kids don't have above average intelligence and they are looking for ways to explain their kids mediocrity in a way that is more palatable to them.

It's not explaining their mediocrity. It's counterbalancing their deficits (which are quite painful, especially if on the social/emotional side) with their strengths. Yes, this main entail over-exaggerating their strengths. But I don't think many people exaggerate their child's deficits.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FISQ 133
dyslexic
presto 2E

This area has a very high percentage of overacheivers. JDs, MDs, PhDs, multiple masters, all marrying. Therefore, this area will have a higher rate of gifted kids.

The 2e thing is new to me. My DC was having trouble in school, got tested, and this is the Dx. Now the ADHD thing I'm not so sure about. I think if the LD is treated, the ADHD will go away but only time will tell.

Why so many LDs? 10% of all kids have dyslexia. Not sure the rate on ADHD or HFASD. IQ and those things can be mutually exclusive. Also, 2e kids are wired different. I'm hoping is happy no matter life choices but mean mommies like you should be ashamed of yourselves and the mean things your kids say to mine.

This.

And also because 2e kids can also present as average -- their giftedness masking/compensating for the LD -- and only a certain type of parent will dig into that and get help. And that's the kind of parent who frequents DCUM.

I seriously doubt a kid who is actually 2e will "present as average". Maybe they end up with overall average grades or test scores. But if they're truly 2e, then their giftedness and disabilities should be apparent to any minimally informed observer.

My kid likely falls somewhere in the 2e range, according to today's expanded definitions. Any teacher or professional who watches him and interacts with him for a fairly short period of time is going to be able to perceive his strengths and weaknesses. Average, he ain't (for better or for worse).

For every parent of a 2e kid posting about it, there’s a parent of a totally average kid who feels threatened by the idea that some other kid might be smarter theirs and posts comments like OP’s to try to tear the kid down. Classy.