Anonymous wrote:^yes.

It’s game revenue. Who fills the seats?

Male soccer players don’t expect to earn what the NFL or MLB or NBA rake in.

Really?

1. Lionel Messi
Lionel Andres Messi is an Argentinian soccer player. The FC Barcelona forward is the highest-paid soccer player, earning $111 million and taking home $84 million in salary and winnings, along with $27 million in endorsements. He is also the second-highest paid athlete in the world.

https://www.investopedia.com/managing-wealth/5-highestpaid-soccer-players/

111 million a year.


Rank Name Sport Total Salary/Winnings Endorsements
1 Floyd Mayweather Jr. Boxing $285 million $275 million $10 million
2 Lionel Messi Association football $111 million $84 million $27 million
3 Cristiano Ronaldo Association football $108 million $61 million $47 million
4 Conor McGregor Mixed martial arts $99 million $85 million $14 million
5 Neymar Association football $90 million $73 million $17 million
6 LeBron James Basketball $85.5 million $33.5 million $52 million
7 Roger Federer Tennis $77.2 million $12.2 million $65 million
8 Stephen Curry Basketball $76.9 million $34.9 million $42 million
9 Matt Ryan American football $67.3 million $62.3 million $5 million
10 Matthew Stafford American football $59.5 million $57.5 million $2 million

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for them. Nothing is more demoralizing than explaining to my daughters and neices that their work is worth a fraction of a man's.

Send them to college in STEM and forget soccer.

I am a former woman soccer player that has a grad degree in a STEM field and I was never paid less than my male colleagues. I’m 49 and I’m a Senior position.

Competitive soccer helped me not be a shrinking violet/whiner in the workplace.

I had no plans for my girls to be professional athletes. That doesn't mean they can't look around them and see inequality. Women being paid less than men for the same work is a societal problem that should be addressed with more than just an attitude of "go into this job to avoid it". Way to pigeonhole girls and women! We deserve better.

But it’s not the same work. World-class womens’ teams are routinely smoked by U15 elite boys’ sides, at least based on what I have read. Is that not correct?

Routinely, or are you talking about one game one time between the WNT and a U15 boys' team?

To add to the above: in context of the question, I obviously meant women's European games.

Anonymous wrote:They did the same thing in 2017

https://thinkprogress.org/womens-soccer-secures-new-deal-ffe06dc4b9e1/

Not a guts move, they know this is a PR stunt and I am all for them being paid by their success but that money comes form revenue generated by ticket sales and TV revenue.

The fact is, women's soccer swells every 4 years here, men's as well, they should have a set schedule for the national teams no matter the sport, sex, and pay bonuses for results.

How many of you watched them play the other night? Care to share the score or who they were playing? The normal soccer thread people will know but those who are chiming in because it is a hot topic?

Actually, about as many people watch the women's WC as watch the World Series. By contrast, only about half that watched the men's world cup. I watch every women's NT game that comes on. I've watched some college soccer, but all I can say is meh. That's true of both men and women. It's also true of the MLS. I can't get into it, and none of my kids like it, though we all watch teams in various professional leagues. I'd watch the youth teams more too if the games were on. Like I watched the U17 BNT play in India, and I watched the U17 GNT play in Jordan. I tried to find LaManga games and couldn't. I couldn't even find a good game analysis; just the PR stuff on US Soccer. What I really want to watch are games in Europe, but that's next to impossible. What games I do watch with my kids we watch via youtube on the big screen. That's some of the best soccer we get to see.

I think the USWNT has a case for at least equal if not greater pay than men’s team. More people watch USWNT on TV then men’s team.

Unfortunately this viewership does not carry over to women’s pro soccer in America currently.

I expect the USSF will try to settle this litigation, because if this case goes to trial they will be smacked so hard.

Go read the complaint: https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/653-us-womens-soccer-complaint/f9367608e2eaf10873f4/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

44. Notwithstanding the unbridled on-field success and financial contributions of the WNT players, the USSF has and continues to have a policy and practice of discriminating against Plaintiffs based upon their gender by treating them substantially less favorably than members of the MNT with regard to pay and other terms and conditions of employment despite the USSF requiring Plaintiffs to perform the same job duties that require equal skill, effort and responsibilities performed under similar working conditions as MNT players.

45. As their common employer, the USSF, for example, has and continues to require that Plaintiffs and male players on the MNT be available for training and any games requested by the USSF; maintain a high level of competitive soccer skills and physical conditioning such that they can compete as elite soccer players; not use illegal or banned drugs or any other harmful substances; serve as a spokesperson for soccer and devote reasonable best efforts to promoting and developing the sport of soccer in the U.S.; grant all reasonable requests by the USSF to promote games and to participate in a reasonable number of media interviews and other media sessions; participate in autograph sessions; devote whatever time is reasonable and necessary to perform their duties as players and spokespeople; comport themselves, at all times, in a manner befitting their positions as members of the WNT and MNT and spokespersons and representatives of the USSF and the sport of soccer; and comply with the USSF’s reasonable rules and regulations.

46. As their common employer, the USSF also has and continues to require that Plaintiffs and male players on the MNT maintain competitive soccer skills, physical conditioning and overall health by undergoing rigorous training routines (endurance running, weight training, etc.) and by adhering to certain nutrition, physical therapy and other regimens. They must attend training camps and practices, participate in skills drills and play scrimmages and other practice events.

47. As their common employer, the USSF also has and continues to require Plaintiffs and male players on the MNT to travel nationally and internationally as necessary for competitive games, which are the same in length, physical and mental demand, and playing environment and conditions throughout the United States and globally. Plaintiffs and MNT players do not work in a single location, but are required to perform and work in games throughout the United States and globally, according to the playing schedule set by the USSF.

48. Plaintiffs and similarly situated male employees of the USSF must adhere to the same rules of the game of soccer as established by the Federation Internationale de Football Association (“FIFA”). They play on the same size field; use the same size ball; have the same duration of matches and play by the same rules regarding start and restart of play, offside, fouls and misconduct, free kicks, penalty kicks, throw-ins, goals kicks, corner kicks, etc.

49. In light of the WNT’s on-field success, Plaintiffs often spend more time practicing for and playing in matches, more time in training camps, more time traveling and more time participating in media sessions, among other duties and responsibilities, than similarly situated MNT players.

50. For example, from 2015 through 2018, the WNT played nineteen more games than the MNT played over that same period of time. As the MNT averaged approximately seventeen games per year in that time frame, the WNT played the equivalent of more than one additional MNT calendar year season from 2015 through 2018.

51. The USSF, nevertheless, has paid and continues to pay Plaintiffs less than similarly situated MNT players.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for them. Nothing is more demoralizing than explaining to my daughters and neices that their work is worth a fraction of a man's.

Send them to college in STEM and forget soccer.

I am a former woman soccer player that has a grad degree in a STEM field and I was never paid less than my male colleagues. I’m 49 and I’m a Senior position.

Competitive soccer helped me not be a shrinking violet/whiner in the workplace.

I had no plans for my girls to be professional athletes. That doesn't mean they can't look around them and see inequality. Women being paid less than men for the same work is a societal problem that should be addressed with more than just an attitude of "go into this job to avoid it". Way to pigeonhole girls and women! We deserve better.

But it’s not the same work. World-class womens’ teams are routinely smoked by U15 elite boys’ sides, at least based on what I have read. Is that not correct?

The problem with most of these objections to the lawsuit is the fact that the players on each national team are paid equally. If you want to go to a market system for these sports, I supppsed you think we should go all the way? Pulisic gets paid as much as the rest of the team combined. Or perhaps your instincts tell you something is wrong with that system for a national team? In which case you might want to apply the same reason across genders?

The problem with this specific post is that yes, it is the same work regardless of outcome. And again, if you want to apply that logic more broadly, you would pay the players based on results. In which case our men would likely earn less. Or you could simply become a banana republic and pay your players only if they win.

That doesn’t follow at all. Why do you claim it is the “same work” if one team demonstrably (and indisputably, as far as I know) performs at a much higher level? One can have a reasonable discussion about how to compensate the teams and players, but it entirely irrational to approach it in a naive equal pay for equal work way, when the quality of the work is manifestly not equal.

Thought experiment: suppose we just put all the men’s and women’s team revenues in a pot, and the men and women play a two leg match for the whole pot, winner take all. Discrimination or no?

Whatever drives this, I hope it does not affect your wife or daughters or coworkers. This is not a thought experiment. It is simply a statement that the best team should take all the money. Perhaps you should let professional leagues know about the genius you are displaying on the board today. Well done.

Despite several requests, you haven’t provided any explanation of why you believe the work to be equal. That is the whole premise of the claim that any pay differential is discriminatory. Why do you think that?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for them. Nothing is more demoralizing than explaining to my daughters and neices that their work is worth a fraction of a man's.

Send them to college in STEM and forget soccer.

I am a former woman soccer player that has a grad degree in a STEM field and I was never paid less than my male colleagues. I’m 49 and I’m a Senior position.

Competitive soccer helped me not be a shrinking violet/whiner in the workplace.

I had no plans for my girls to be professional athletes. That doesn't mean they can't look around them and see inequality. Women being paid less than men for the same work is a societal problem that should be addressed with more than just an attitude of "go into this job to avoid it". Way to pigeonhole girls and women! We deserve better.

But it’s not the same work. World-class womens’ teams are routinely smoked by U15 elite boys’ sides, at least based on what I have read. Is that not correct?

The problem with most of these objections to the lawsuit is the fact that the players on each national team are paid equally. If you want to go to a market system for these sports, I supppsed you think we should go all the way? Pulisic gets paid as much as the rest of the team combined. Or perhaps your instincts tell you something is wrong with that system for a national team? In which case you might want to apply the same reason across genders?

The problem with this specific post is that yes, it is the same work regardless of outcome. And again, if you want to apply that logic more broadly, you would pay the players based on results. In which case our men would likely earn less. Or you could simply become a banana republic and pay your players only if they win.

That doesn’t follow at all. Why do you claim it is the “same work” if one team demonstrably (and indisputably, as far as I know) performs at a much higher level? One can have a reasonable discussion about how to compensate the teams and players, but it entirely irrational to approach it in a naive equal pay for equal work way, when the quality of the work is manifestly not equal.

Thought experiment: suppose we just put all the men’s and women’s team revenues in a pot, and the men and women play a two leg match for the whole pot, winner take all. Discrimination or no?

Whatever drives this, I hope it does not affect your wife or daughters or coworkers. This is not a thought experiment. It is simply a statement that the best team should take all the money. Perhaps you should let professional leagues know about the genius you are displaying on the board today. Well done.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for them. Nothing is more demoralizing than explaining to my daughters and neices that their work is worth a fraction of a man's.

Send them to college in STEM and forget soccer.

I am a former woman soccer player that has a grad degree in a STEM field and I was never paid less than my male colleagues. I’m 49 and I’m a Senior position.

Competitive soccer helped me not be a shrinking violet/whiner in the workplace.

I had no plans for my girls to be professional athletes. That doesn't mean they can't look around them and see inequality. Women being paid less than men for the same work is a societal problem that should be addressed with more than just an attitude of "go into this job to avoid it". Way to pigeonhole girls and women! We deserve better.

But it’s not the same work. World-class womens’ teams are routinely smoked by U15 elite boys’ sides, at least based on what I have read. Is that not correct?

The problem with most of these objections to the lawsuit is the fact that the players on each national team are paid equally. If you want to go to a market system for these sports, I supppsed you think we should go all the way? Pulisic gets paid as much as the rest of the team combined. Or perhaps your instincts tell you something is wrong with that system for a national team? In which case you might want to apply the same reason across genders?

The problem with this specific post is that yes, it is the same work regardless of outcome. And again, if you want to apply that logic more broadly, you would pay the players based on results. In which case our men would likely earn less. Or you could simply become a banana republic and pay your players only if they win.

That doesn’t follow at all. Why do you claim it is the “same work” if one team demonstrably (and indisputably, as far as I know) performs at a much higher level? One can have a reasonable discussion about how to compensate the teams and players, but it entirely irrational to approach it in a naive equal pay for equal work way, when the quality of the work is manifestly not equal.

Thought experiment: suppose we just put all the men’s and women’s team revenues in a pot, and the men and women play a two leg match for the whole pot, winner take all. Discrimination or no?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for them. Nothing is more demoralizing than explaining to my daughters and neices that their work is worth a fraction of a man's.

Send them to college in STEM and forget soccer.

I am a former woman soccer player that has a grad degree in a STEM field and I was never paid less than my male colleagues. I’m 49 and I’m a Senior position.

Competitive soccer helped me not be a shrinking violet/whiner in the workplace.

I had no plans for my girls to be professional athletes. That doesn't mean they can't look around them and see inequality. Women being paid less than men for the same work is a societal problem that should be addressed with more than just an attitude of "go into this job to avoid it". Way to pigeonhole girls and women! We deserve better.

But it’s not the same work. World-class womens’ teams are routinely smoked by U15 elite boys’ sides, at least based on what I have read. Is that not correct?

The problem with most of these objections to the lawsuit is the fact that the players on each national team are paid equally. If you want to go to a market system for these sports, I supppsed you think we should go all the way? Pulisic gets paid as much as the rest of the team combined. Or perhaps your instincts tell you something is wrong with that system for a national team? In which case you might want to apply the same reason across genders?

The problem with this specific post is that yes, it is the same work regardless of outcome. And again, if you want to apply that logic more broadly, you would pay the players based on results. In which case our men would likely earn less. Or you could simply become a banana republic and pay your players only if they win.

^yes.

It’s game revenue. Who fills the seats?

Male soccer players don’t expect to earn what the NFL or MLB or NBA rake in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for them. Nothing is more demoralizing than explaining to my daughters and neices that their work is worth a fraction of a man's.

Send them to college in STEM and forget soccer.

I am a former woman soccer player that has a grad degree in a STEM field and I was never paid less than my male colleagues. I’m 49 and I’m a Senior position.

Competitive soccer helped me not be a shrinking violet/whiner in the workplace.

I had no plans for my girls to be professional athletes. That doesn't mean they can't look around them and see inequality. Women being paid less than men for the same work is a societal problem that should be addressed with more than just an attitude of "go into this job to avoid it". Way to pigeonhole girls and women! We deserve better.

But it’s not the same work. World-class womens’ teams are routinely smoked by U15 elite boys’ sides, at least based on what I have read. Is that not correct?

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Good for them. Nothing is more demoralizing than explaining to my daughters and neices that their work is worth a fraction of a man's.
[/quote]

Send them to college in STEM and forget soccer.

I am a former woman soccer player that has a grad degree in a STEM field and I was never paid less than my male colleagues. I’m 49 and I’m a Senior position.

Competitive soccer helped me not be a shrinking violet/whiner in the workplace.[/quote]

I had no plans for my girls to be professional athletes. That doesn't mean they can't look around them and see inequality. Women being paid less than men for the same work is a societal problem that should be addressed with more than just an attitude of "go into this job to avoid it". Way to pigeonhole girls and women! We deserve better.
[/quote]

The problem is that it is not viewed as, “the same work.” The men’s game makes more money internationally. A LOT more. The U.S. men benefit from this popularity, even though they don’t contribute much to it with their performance. So the thought is that in order to be more competitive they have to pay men even more. A seemingly logical conclusion by those that want the men’s team to succeed, but faulty none the less. The USNT is not a for profit business and therefore pay should be equal, at least base pay. Variable comp. can be a differentiator based on performance but also revenue. Facilities should be equal too.

Also, playing for country is an honor, and is not for pay. The women have proven this already by being paid peanuts and still winning frequently.

Honestly, they should just disband the men’s team until we have at least 20 players regularly starting for top division teams in England, Spain, Germany, Italy, or France. Until then, we will not compete and it is a waste of time and money. Even Pulisic and Weah (our two most talented players) don’t start. Give the money to the women instead as at least they represent our country well. The men are an embarrassment. Losing to Costa Rica regularly. Struggling with Panama. Unable to qualify from CONCACAF. What a joke.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for them. Nothing is more demoralizing than explaining to my daughters and neices that their work is worth a fraction of a man's.

Send them to college in STEM and forget soccer.

I am a former woman soccer player that has a grad degree in a STEM field and I was never paid less than my male colleagues. I’m 49 and I’m a Senior position.

Competitive soccer helped me not be a shrinking violet/whiner in the workplace.

I had no plans for my girls to be professional athletes. That doesn't mean they can't look around them and see inequality. Women being paid less than men for the same work is a societal problem that should be addressed with more than just an attitude of "go into this job to avoid it". Way to pigeonhole girls and women! We deserve better.