I was a bully in elementary school. I targetted clean, tidy and well-adjusted kids who had carefully packed lunches.... because my home life was a careless chaos and I guess I was jealous. I don’t think I understood that they had feelings, I was certainly not in touch with my own feelings and I don’t think anyone ever asked how I felt when I was growing up. I then moved to another country for middle school and had no friends for the first year, it was awful. It was the first time I became conscious of pain and anguish and ever since then I do everything in my power not to inflict it on others.

I was usually nice enough, but I definitely had mean moments. I wasn’t a bully. I didn’t target anyone repeatedly, but I took practical jokes too far.

I was abused and raised in that kind of environment. I wasn’t taught empathy. I was made fun of if I cried. My parents and aunts and uncles were all douchebag bullies who thought nothing of picking on kids to toughen them up. My grandparents really did a number on that generation, who in turn raised us to be jerks. I thought everyone acted that way, because all the authority figures in my family did.

When I was old enough to think beyond my own feelings I realized I didn’t want to be that way so I changed. As I grew up and became more independent I was able to change into who I wanted to be more, but it wasn’t until I went away to college that I realized the toxic environment I grew up in. I moved far away after college and raised my children to respect others’ feelings and break the cycle.

I’ve done therapy but I really feel like my formative years have done permanent damage to me. Kindness isn’t my first instinct. I have to stop and think, and actively choose to be kind and gracious sometimes. I envy people who had a normal upbringing with kind parents who value and respect other people’s feelings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a quite normal developmental phase. Read untangled.

It's not normal. It may be common, but there it is always a signal something is wrong whether it is an empathy deficit, a problem at home, depression, narcissism or just experimenting with cruelty it is not normal. Normal implies healthy and it is not healthy for anyone involved. Check out the research as opposed to a clinician/author's views based on her or his opinion.

No. Normal implies “typical.” It’s a developmental phase in a typical kid. I see lots of good kids who occasionally do mean things. It happens to the best of them. Maybe even your kid.

Bullying behavior is not a typical developmental phase. Being mean now and then sure OK kids experiment a bit. It is not normal to bully. The majority of kids have developed enough empathy or morality not to be a downright bully and those who haven't' need help.

+1. Bullying isn't a one-time jerk move or kids who "occasionally do mean things." It involves repeatedly targeting someone to socially isolate and terrorize them. Any time I've seen this level, there's something going on at home.

Desperation to be liked and accepted. Can’t get friends through being nice so try to attract (negative) attention.

Some kids just lack empathy. I don’t think they really get how much they hurt others. It just doesn’t occur to them.

I’m not talking about the ones who see the other kids crying and still laugh about it. I’m talking about the ones who laugh it off and walk away before they see the hurt.

It’s crappy and I’m sure those kids regret it later on and get karma for it (not that it helps the situation now)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a quite normal developmental phase. Read untangled.

It's not normal. It may be common, but there it is always a signal something is wrong whether it is an empathy deficit, a problem at home, depression, narcissism or just experimenting with cruelty it is not normal. Normal implies healthy and it is not healthy for anyone involved. Check out the research as opposed to a clinician/author's views based on her or his opinion.

No. Normal implies “typical.” It’s a developmental phase in a typical kid. I see lots of good kids who occasionally do mean things. It happens to the best of them. Maybe even your kid.

Bullying behavior is not a typical developmental phase. Being mean now and then sure OK kids experiment a bit. It is not normal to bully. The majority of kids have developed enough empathy or morality not to be a downright bully and those who haven't' need help.

+2. I was an extremely insecure child in middle school and desperately wanted to just fit in somewhere so that people would leave me alone, because they picked on the kids who were vulnerable and an outsider. Looking back, I feel terrible that I did not stick up for the kids who were left out and bullied, but at the time, I was just relieved that I wasn't the one being picked on.

Anonymous wrote:I was neither mean nor nice- just a follower type. There were some kids who were picked on mercilessly- one in particular behaved very oddly and was probably undiagnosed ASD.

My middle school was nasty. All of the kids seemed pretty nasty, and it is hard to be "better" in that kind of environment, at that age. It did not help that I transferred in at 7th grade. Teachers did not call out bad behavior and ignored it, no one talked about being a nice person. It just wasn't a thing.

+1. I didn’t move in the middle of middle school, but did come in to 6th grade from a different elementary school than most of the other kids so I didn’t know too many of them. My middle school was mean - there’s no other way to put it. It was kill or be killed. No messaging from teachers/administrators about bullying or being a nice person or even just ignoring kids who bothered you in some way. No rules about things like passing out party invites in school. Conformity to a few different types of social groups was king and anyone outside these groups was, well, an outsider. Thank goodness this was before social media.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a quite normal developmental phase. Read untangled.

It's not normal. It may be common, but there it is always a signal something is wrong whether it is an empathy deficit, a problem at home, depression, narcissism or just experimenting with cruelty it is not normal. Normal implies healthy and it is not healthy for anyone involved. Check out the research as opposed to a clinician/author's views based on her or his opinion.

No. Normal implies “typical.” It’s a developmental phase in a typical kid. I see lots of good kids who occasionally do mean things. It happens to the best of them. Maybe even your kid.

I do think we need to see bullying behavior as a huge red flag and get these kids help. I have known a handful of queen Bs who later grew up to likely meet criteria for a personality disorder and or alcoholism and they also struggled with depression due to marriages imploding, etc. When queen Bs lose their looks, the bees around them less willing to follow along and with age the worst part of their personalities seem to become more salient.

Of the male bullies I also know quite a few became alcoholics and struggled in the job world and marriages.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She probably has bad/mean parents or siblings who tease her and doesn't know any different.

Maybe. Or maybe not.

Not all bullies come from bad mean families. Some come from lovely families with outstanding parents.

Hmm, I've never ever seen this happen. There's always an issue at home.

It really is true.

I work with tween and teen girls.

I cannot tell you how many times really nice mom A comes upset about her newly teen girl getting bullied by girl B.

What she doesn't know is really nice mom B is also coming to me upset because her newly teen girl B has been getting bullied by girl A.

Both are nice moms/families who have gotten a little crazy dealing with preteen/teen angst.

Both girls are formerly nice girls, who have become mean, eye rolly, snarky, exclusive, queen bees due to puberty, boys, and/or middle school social dynamics.

Kids have personalities and behaviors separate from their parents, and often in spite of their home lives amd how they were raised.

If you don't know this then you do not spend much time around middle or high schoolers.

Anonymous wrote:She probably has bad/mean parents or siblings who tease her and doesn't know any different.

Lots of kids have mean parents and siblings who tease them, but still end up being nice kids in middle school. I knew what it felt like to be hurt, and never wanted to be responsible for inflicting that on someone else. Do some kids just lack empathy? What causes some to lash out at others?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She probably has bad/mean parents or siblings who tease her and doesn't know any different.

Maybe. Or maybe not.

Not all bullies come from bad mean families. Some come from lovely families with outstanding parents.

Agree. I've seen it with one of my sons friends. He's the only kid in the family who is rotten.

OP, I'm so sorry to hear about your kid. Put everything in writing to the Principal and name names. Put it in the school and demand better classroom management. Let me know if you want more tips because I had to go all mama bear to fix the situation for my child.

The bullies are usually reacting to something at home.

A few examples I've seen:

One of the lead bully's mom is a quintessential mean girl and a relentless climber, but of course she doesn't think she is. Both mom and daughter are major ass kissers and suck up big time to teachers, admin, anyone they think is important or who could help them. The mom makes catty, vicious remarks to those she doesn't see as important. I've also seen her walk over to a group of two people and make eye contact only with the "important" person until the other is just cut out and walks away. It's subtle but once you see it you know to look for it. At first I thought the mom was so friendly and wonderful, but then I started seeing how she treated others. I began to steer clear of her and then later on her daughter severely bullied my daughter until I raised cain with the school to put a stop to it.

A friend of my daughter's got caught up in this when the bully & co gave her an ultimatum to either be friends with them OR my daughter but not both. The friend stopped associating with my daughter. We were very close with this friend's family for years. Vacationed together, hung out a lot, etc. I tried talking to the mom and the mom said she would look into it. Never got back to me then I saw her at an event and she told me my daughter was weird and basically used the she had it coming defense. The kids are friends again but we barely hang out with the parents. I now see how she'll excuse abhorrent behavior that harms my family if she thinks her family has something to gain. It was eye opening for me.

Some other kids at school who one of the admins spilled to me (yes, I know she shouldn't have) that their parents aren't raising them right and they're learning these behaviors at home. This is one of the issues that affects upper elementary and middle and high schools. It's a major factor for why peer group is important.

One of my cousins could be really nasty to other kids and try to organize us to pick on a certain kid. I remember telling her to knock it off because it was mean one time and she backed down and just ignored the other kid instead. Her parents and grandparents had serious control issues/dysfunction and her parents had a miserable marriage. It's sad but she's turned into a catty, petty adult. I have to stop her when she gets in that mode. We used to be close but now we're not because I pulled away. She and her husband are just not nice people.

Countless others with unhappy home lives. I haven't seen a single case where there wasn't a known issue at home. Not saying it doesn't happen, but I haven't seen it.

Anonymous wrote:It's a quite normal developmental phase. Read untangled.

It's not normal. It may be common, but there it is always a signal something is wrong whether it is an empathy deficit, a problem at home, depression, narcissism or just experimenting with cruelty it is not normal. Normal implies healthy and it is not healthy for anyone involved. Check out the research as opposed to a clinician/author's views based on her or his opinion.