Anonymous
Post 02/11/2019 14:50     Subject: When should we listen to those small, nagging doubts?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you can't really point to some specific problem, then it sounds like FOMO. But you can't make decisions based on the vague fear that the grass might be greener on the other side.

Your kids are likely in reading and math groups, which are based on ability. So there are other kids who are also "above grade level" or whatever. Ask your kids what they are working on--what books did they read, what did they write about, what are they doing in math. Ask them what they did that day that was hard for them. Are there assignments that let kids stretch themselves regardless of ability? This would include things like open-ended writing assignments, or optional math problems that are more difficult, or creative projects that synthesize different areas (drawing a map of an imaginary place, for example).

The only thing that would really concern me would be behavioral issues that meant that the teacher didn't have the ability to really teach because he or she was constantly managing some kid(s) disruptions. Barring that, there will be a range of abilities in any classroom, and a good teacher will find ways to challenge all the kids, at least sometimes.


NP here but I very much relate to the question the OP raised. The problem I have is that, other than attending school myself ages ago, I don't have much background or knowledge about what they should be reading and doing in math. I mean, in 3rd grade they should be able to do long division and big number multiplication, right? By second grade they should be able to right a simple story? Periodic table in ... maybe 5th grade? There, that's all I can remember. How would I know that my kids' grammar/math/science/writing is up to snuff, without uprooting them and putting them in another school.


I find the OP's question frustrating because of the assumption that the OP's kids cannot get a good education at the school in question. I have a child in a school that sounds similar to the OP's description. My child is in 3rd grade. How do you know how your child is doing in school? You go to parent teacher conferences and stay in touch with the teacher about how your child is doing. Your teacher can tell you what is "grade level" for the various things you want to know about. It doesn't sound like you actually know enough about elementary education to assess whether a SCHOOL is any good at all.


If the parcc scores show that 2/3 of third graders aren’t at grade level then assume your kid is not getting a good education. Unless you kid also scored low on PARCCC. Kids above grade level at low performing schools always get lost in the shuffle. No teacher wants or is a law to do that much differentiation.


I actually disagree with that. I think that PARCC isn't a good test. I'm certainly not the only one who thinks this. I have worked in schools and have been involved with my child's school and understand that they use a variety of assessments to determine how children are performing. Education does not hang solely on PARCC results, which in any case would only apply to children who are 3rd grade and above. Is your suggestion that the OP simply wait and see if her child is doing well until she sees PARCC scores for her child's class?

I think that your post is filled with a lot of assumptions that cannot be taken as fact. Kids above grade level "always" get lost in the shuffle? No teacher wants or is allowed to provide differentiated learning? What school are you talking about specifically? My child's teachers from K-3 have been able to provide differentiation in the classroom just fine.


Let's examine this statement. Citywide, 31% of 3rd graders were "at grade level" on PARCC (4+) in ELA last year. 41% in math. Of the 130 schools with a 3rd grade, only ten had 2/3 or more of students at grade level in PARCC in ELA. PARCC can't be used as the sole measure of how a school is doing and/or how one individual student is doing.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2019 14:19     Subject: When should we listen to those small, nagging doubts?
Our title 1 eotp DCPS has lots of individualization/small groups, and very very capable teachers, so so far our kid is being challenged and working at the top of his potential. so we are happy.

But I really think a lot of it depends on the personality of the kid, not just their intelligence level. The "gentrifier" kids I see thriving at our school are all very outgoing and full of positive energy, in addition to being smart --- I think their outgoingness leads the teacher to see them more clearly and to feel excited to challenge them. I see a lot of shy-er UMC kids being overlooked, and their parents aren't as confident about the school meeting their needs -- maybe these kids would do better in a school where most kids were "above average" and that was the norm..m they wouldn't have to make themselves stand out to be working on advanced material.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2019 14:16     Subject: When should we listen to those small, nagging doubts?
We have 3rd and PK and aren’t leaving our EOTP school, period. And the more of us that do the easier it is to have DCPS to plan for what our kids need at the levels they are at.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2019 14:16     Subject: When should we listen to those small, nagging doubts?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you can't really point to some specific problem, then it sounds like FOMO. But you can't make decisions based on the vague fear that the grass might be greener on the other side.

Your kids are likely in reading and math groups, which are based on ability. So there are other kids who are also "above grade level" or whatever. Ask your kids what they are working on--what books did they read, what did they write about, what are they doing in math. Ask them what they did that day that was hard for them. Are there assignments that let kids stretch themselves regardless of ability? This would include things like open-ended writing assignments, or optional math problems that are more difficult, or creative projects that synthesize different areas (drawing a map of an imaginary place, for example).

The only thing that would really concern me would be behavioral issues that meant that the teacher didn't have the ability to really teach because he or she was constantly managing some kid(s) disruptions. Barring that, there will be a range of abilities in any classroom, and a good teacher will find ways to challenge all the kids, at least sometimes.


NP here but I very much relate to the question the OP raised. The problem I have is that, other than attending school myself ages ago, I don't have much background or knowledge about what they should be reading and doing in math. I mean, in 3rd grade they should be able to do long division and big number multiplication, right? By second grade they should be able to right a simple story? Periodic table in ... maybe 5th grade? There, that's all I can remember. How would I know that my kids' grammar/math/science/writing is up to snuff, without uprooting them and putting them in another school.


DCPS publishes their curriculum guidelines, which are the same for all the schools. You can look at that and see whether your kid's class is on track. The math curriculum (does everyone use Eureka now?) lays out what should be covered in each grade.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2019 14:13     Subject: When should we listen to those small, nagging doubts?
Anonymous wrote:Can you just supplement outside of school? Luminati or some such?


Everyone should be supplementing in some way, doesn't have to cost money but lots of extra curriculars overall dCPS schools are not great even the good ones.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2019 14:09     Subject: When should we listen to those small, nagging doubts?
FWIW I have the same question about our HRCS just because of what someone said above, that I don't feel in a good position to assess. But our kid is younger so I hope I will be more confident later on. The part I worry about is the teaching to the middle aspect, which is why I relished being in separate advanced classes for math and language starting maybe 2nd or 3rd grade or so. I also hated science, for instance, mainly because it wasn't tracked and I was always made to sit with the lower performing kids and "help" them. I really never recovered from that even though I believe I may have otherwise enjoyed science. I fear this kind of thing for my kids.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2019 14:03     Subject: When should we listen to those small, nagging doubts?
I think you should talk with the principal and the teachers. Have them come up with a plan. I feel like DCPS needs to start accommodating children like yours if they want schools to improve their test scores and attract more diversity. I think all parents in DC want diversity in schools and to go to schools that have better test scores. If your child is scoring well on parc they should meet your child where s/he is.

Also as someone who had my kids in private school, I will tell you that private schools do not offer acceleration. DCPS offers better acceleration than private.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2019 13:56     Subject: When should we listen to those small, nagging doubts?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you can't really point to some specific problem, then it sounds like FOMO. But you can't make decisions based on the vague fear that the grass might be greener on the other side.

Your kids are likely in reading and math groups, which are based on ability. So there are other kids who are also "above grade level" or whatever. Ask your kids what they are working on--what books did they read, what did they write about, what are they doing in math. Ask them what they did that day that was hard for them. Are there assignments that let kids stretch themselves regardless of ability? This would include things like open-ended writing assignments, or optional math problems that are more difficult, or creative projects that synthesize different areas (drawing a map of an imaginary place, for example).

The only thing that would really concern me would be behavioral issues that meant that the teacher didn't have the ability to really teach because he or she was constantly managing some kid(s) disruptions. Barring that, there will be a range of abilities in any classroom, and a good teacher will find ways to challenge all the kids, at least sometimes.


NP here but I very much relate to the question the OP raised. The problem I have is that, other than attending school myself ages ago, I don't have much background or knowledge about what they should be reading and doing in math. I mean, in 3rd grade they should be able to do long division and big number multiplication, right? By second grade they should be able to right a simple story? Periodic table in ... maybe 5th grade? There, that's all I can remember. How would I know that my kids' grammar/math/science/writing is up to snuff, without uprooting them and putting them in another school.


I think with math in particular, you'll see some things sooner than you remember doing them and some things take longer. Common Core has a lot more on number sense and problem-solving skills and thus sometimes delays the algorithm (the specific order of little tasks you do for long division or multiplication on multidigit numbers) in favor of WHY you do these things (multiplying hundreds, tens, and ones, for example). I also don't think I did long division and "big number multiplication" until 4th or 5th and that was in a gifted class in a well-regarded suburban school. You could look at Common Core and PARCC and ask questions about the curriculum the school is using. You can also look at what other districts use--MCPS puts a lot of info online.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2019 13:55     Subject: When should we listen to those small, nagging doubts?
Anonymous wrote:Third grade.
The answer is 3rd grade.


This.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2019 13:40     Subject: When should we listen to those small, nagging doubts?
The way I've put these nagging doubts to rest is by watching my child - how much is he learning? What does his teacher say about him? (he's the kid who explains math to the ones who struggle because he's really good at it, and good at explaining it) What do his reading assessments look like? etc.

He's in a charter that uses the MAP test (also used in some MD schools) to assess growth, and I know that he's growing on MAP every year, so I'm just not worried. He also loves school, loves his teachers, loves his classmates. It's certainly not broken, so I'm not fixing it.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2019 13:26     Subject: When should we listen to those small, nagging doubts?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you can't really point to some specific problem, then it sounds like FOMO. But you can't make decisions based on the vague fear that the grass might be greener on the other side.

Your kids are likely in reading and math groups, which are based on ability. So there are other kids who are also "above grade level" or whatever. Ask your kids what they are working on--what books did they read, what did they write about, what are they doing in math. Ask them what they did that day that was hard for them. Are there assignments that let kids stretch themselves regardless of ability? This would include things like open-ended writing assignments, or optional math problems that are more difficult, or creative projects that synthesize different areas (drawing a map of an imaginary place, for example).

The only thing that would really concern me would be behavioral issues that meant that the teacher didn't have the ability to really teach because he or she was constantly managing some kid(s) disruptions. Barring that, there will be a range of abilities in any classroom, and a good teacher will find ways to challenge all the kids, at least sometimes.


NP here but I very much relate to the question the OP raised. The problem I have is that, other than attending school myself ages ago, I don't have much background or knowledge about what they should be reading and doing in math. I mean, in 3rd grade they should be able to do long division and big number multiplication, right? By second grade they should be able to right a simple story? Periodic table in ... maybe 5th grade? There, that's all I can remember. How would I know that my kids' grammar/math/science/writing is up to snuff, without uprooting them and putting them in another school.


I find the OP's question frustrating because of the assumption that the OP's kids cannot get a good education at the school in question. I have a child in a school that sounds similar to the OP's description. My child is in 3rd grade. How do you know how your child is doing in school? You go to parent teacher conferences and stay in touch with the teacher about how your child is doing. Your teacher can tell you what is "grade level" for the various things you want to know about. It doesn't sound like you actually know enough about elementary education to assess whether a SCHOOL is any good at all.


If the parcc scores show that 2/3 of third graders aren’t at grade level then assume your kid is not getting a good education. Unless you kid also scored low on PARCCC. Kids above grade level at low performing schools always get lost in the shuffle. No teacher wants or is a law to do that much differentiation.


I actually disagree with that. I think that PARCC isn't a good test. I'm certainly not the only one who thinks this. I have worked in schools and have been involved with my child's school and understand that they use a variety of assessments to determine how children are performing. Education does not hang solely on PARCC results, which in any case would only apply to children who are 3rd grade and above. Is your suggestion that the OP simply wait and see if her child is doing well until she sees PARCC scores for her child's class?

I think that your post is filled with a lot of assumptions that cannot be taken as fact. Kids above grade level "always" get lost in the shuffle? No teacher wants or is allowed to provide differentiated learning? What school are you talking about specifically? My child's teachers from K-3 have been able to provide differentiation in the classroom just fine.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2019 13:24     Subject: Re:When should we listen to those small, nagging doubts?
We have an advanced kid at an EOTP gentrifying school where we promised to take it Year by year. The school did pullouts in 1st and 2nd and DC is now in third grade, and I’m (pleasantly) surprised at the level in which he is being academically challenged - particularly in math. I don’t recall doing work like this until 4th/5th grade and I was in the advanced groups too. Grammar is a weak spot but friends from the suburbs echo the same frustration. As long as my DC is thriving academically and socially we will stick around. If we leave it will be for middle school.

Every school is different. What exactly do you see in the older grades when you look ahead OP? You don’t point to anything negative, are you sure you’re not looking for trouble?
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2019 13:20     Subject: When should we listen to those small, nagging doubts?
If you are planning on moving at 5th grade for a charter or go private in 4th, then stay put. If you don’t want to go charter or private, start looking for better options or neighborhood.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2019 12:59     Subject: Re:When should we listen to those small, nagging doubts?
I really think this depends on the school, the class and the teacher. It's extremely difficult for one teacher to do differentiation well in a class where the range in abilities falls all over the spectrum. Don't bank on your more advanced child getting something above and beyond the coursework unless it's been explicitly laid out that that's what's happening. More likely, they are teaching to the middle and giving those below that average a little more attention so they can catch up and they can collectively perform better on assessments.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2019 12:52     Subject: When should we listen to those small, nagging doubts?
Personally, nagging doubts were not enough for us to leave. I didn't like the idea of moving the kids from school to school more than necessary because of their personalities and because our IB school had some very nice aspects to go along with the challenging parts. We supplemented and rolled with it until we got into a top choice. DCs seem entirely fine and I am glad we did it this way.