Anonymous wrote:My son is a freshman at W&M; we live in NoVa and he went to a private school. He had a good ACT score but middling grades... we were surprised he got in. HE loves it and is having a great year. The worst aspect has been the freshman dorms (awful) and the food (gross). Like the previous poster, my son also joined a fraternity and has found a good group of kids to hang with. His looking forward to living in the frat house on campus next year (a significant upgrade from his freshman dorm). He plays on a competitive W&M club sport team, one that travels not just around VA but around the region; he also plays on a bunch of the IM teams they offer, like soccer, basketball and team handball. He has found the classes to be challenging, but not insurmountably so; he received an A- and Bs in all his fall classes. He is undecided in his major, and so his advisor was assigned to him; and although he is not going to be in her field, she has been helpful and kind. He chose W&M because of its size; none of us wanted him to go to a large school. . In fact, W&M was the biggest school he applied to.

I have a girl who is in love with W&M. Can you expand on what’s wrong with the dorms and food? We could only see a model room which was pretty basic, but fine. And we did not get to eat on campus.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Just pump the brakes a bit and let him visit and do his own research. He has until May 1 to make the decision. Anonymous people on the internet can position themselves as experts even when they aren't.

+1,000

+10000000 And as for you, Mom. Beyond encouraging him not to choose UVA just because others might have chosen it, and being willing to drive down for additional visits, keep your mouth shut!!!! Yeah, it is hard for us to do that, but even if your kid says some odd reasons to support one or the other, know he's just trying on the "feel" of the words and not really meaning it.

OP here: Thanks, this is I think what is getting to me. He was so self-reflective and sensible in his thinking when it was mainly him thinking about his options himself but now that everyone in HS is going through the same maelstrom he seems like he's losing his sense of his own perspective and it's even contagious to me (posting I think prevents me from nagging him about it). We're fairly recent transplants (3 years ago) to this area and so I feel like there may be some "secret knowledge" about in-state schools that we're not privvy to. (Though I have to say I am THRILLED with the quality of in-state options here and think he couldn't go wrong selecting any--it's really remarkable compared to other states we've lived in). But I guess I just have to trust that he'll figure it out --and make a few more drives down state...

You are welcome. There's a thread on college confidential about all the dumb things kids say and mine contributed a winner! Just let him say things. Come April you can address it for real.

There's no secret knowledge. The only secret is that too many of us rationalize the choices we have and oversell them to ourselves.

My son is a freshman at W&M; we live in NoVa and he went to a private school. He had a good ACT score but middling grades... we were surprised he got in. HE loves it and is having a great year. The worst aspect has been the freshman dorms (awful) and the food (gross). Like the previous poster, my son also joined a fraternity and has found a good group of kids to hang with. His looking forward to living in the frat house on campus next year (a significant upgrade from his freshman dorm). He plays on a competitive W&M club sport team, one that travels not just around VA but around the region; he also plays on a bunch of the IM teams they offer, like soccer, basketball and team handball. He has found the classes to be challenging, but not insurmountably so; he received an A- and Bs in all his fall classes. He is undecided in his major, and so his advisor was assigned to him; and although he is not going to be in her field, she has been helpful and kind. He chose W&M because of its size; none of us wanted him to go to a large school. . In fact, W&M was the biggest school he applied to.

Anonymous wrote:Big school vs small school, very different vibe.

Personally, my DC liked the faculty attention and small classes that are offered at a SLAC.

Charlottesvilles in nicer that Williamsburg...but than again, for a history major, both are pretty amazing settings. Nice problem to have! Congrats to you both.

I've lived in both C'Ville and Williamsburg and they both have their good points depending on what you like. If you want Manhattan, neither one is going to give you that. Surrounding areas are nice. I particularly liked the mountains to the West in C'ville.

Big school vs small school, very different vibe.

Personally, my DC liked the faculty attention and small classes that are offered at a SLAC.

Charlottesvilles in nicer that Williamsburg...but than again, for a history major, both are pretty amazing settings. Nice problem to have! Congrats to you both.

^^ pertains to UVA, not W&M, according to quoted text above. Just to be clear.

... wealthy white and very preppy...

Oops hope that wasn’t too long !

OP first congrats to your son.
We live in NOVA and DD accepted another both schools. The feeling of the schools is different: DD is a junior at W&M
W&M is smaller and you have more direct contact with teachers. It’s easier to get into the top sororities and fraternities and there is social life around this.
UVA is much bigger.
I recently read this about UVA:

See what students say:
Academics
Along with the low in-state tuition, academic rigor is the reason many students choose UVA. “All our schools are pretty strong and we have beautiful facilities, numerous options to choose from in regards to liberal arts education, and most professors are so excited to be here and be teaching,” a sophomore reports. The school’s greatest strengths, according to one senior, “include its location in Charlottesville, the wide variety of courses and their high level of academic rigor, and the many ways to work or volunteer outside the classroom.” “Each class caters to the smartest kids and elevates everyone. “ On the whole, students are very happy with their professors, who are “extremely knowledgeable, passionate, excellent teachers, with a few exceptions. The teachers are generally very accessible and responsive to emails, and are genuinely interested in helping students succeed and encouraging exploration of interesting topic material outside of class.” While students note that in large lecture classes it can be a challenge to engage, “professors are very accessible if you seek them out,” and “are genuinely interested in helping students succeed and encouraging exploration of interesting topic material outside of class.” Academics here are almost universally described as rigorous and challenging, with a particularly tough grading curve in the sciences, but students praise the available resources and academic advising. “Having a personal relationship with faculty members outside of the classroom helps with the academic experience.”
Student Body
“The typical UVA student is reasonably wealthy, white, and very preppy. Other groups can be found within the student body, but you have to actively seek them out.” This sums up how students describe themselves, though they’re quick to acknowledge that there are other types beyond the typical. Roughly two-thirds of the student body is from Virginia. Some praise the diversity of the school while others would like to see even more. “Preppy” and “involved” are also common adjectives. “The typical student is very involved outside of academics and usually has a million things to do,” including socialize. “Student are highly involved in academics, extracurriculars, and socially. Your average UVA student is very well-rounded and extremely busy, but enjoys that lifestyle.” This involvement makes it easy for students to find niches within the larger community that suit their interests, and there’s no question that everyone here is very driven in the direction of their choosing....

I don’t think you can go wrong with either school. As for the “grind”. HS Was the grind. College has been easier. Best of luck!

Anonymous wrote:W&M alum here. I loved my experience. The professors were amazing - invited us over to their homes, small seminars, etc. It all really depends on what you choose to study though. All my friends and I look back fondly on our experience. Several things to consider:

1 - Not enough national recognition for the amount of work and quality of education

2 - Not a lot of diversity

3 - No grade inflation - so it may be much harder to get into grad school

The gradeinflation.com site referenced shows average GPA of 3.33 in 2014 and has been rising steadily over time. UVA was 3.32 in 2013 as a point of comparison. Virginia Tech is lower.

Re grad school, there is also a site that tracks undergraduate institutions of PHD recipients (based on government data). If you adjust for size of student body, it appears to show W&M is the top producer on a per capita basis among public schools. Some institutions like Yale Law and UVA Law list undergraduate institutions attended for their classes, and it shows W&M does comparatively well against public schools.

http://www.gradeinflation.com/Williamandmary.html
http://www.gradeinflation.com/Virginia.html
http://www.gradeinflation.com/Virginiatech.html
https://highereddatastories.blogspot.com/2019/02/doctoral-recipients-2013-2017.html#gpluscomments

Anonymous wrote:DS just got a postcard from William and Mary indicating he will likely be accepted. He's already been accepted to UVA early action and a few other schools out of state, but he leans towards William and Mary. He likes history, likes the size of the place, got a good feel when he visited, really liked the guy he interviewed with and the class he observed. He knows UVA is a great school and liked his visit there, but it just didn't click quite as much for him. The few people he has talked to who have gone to William and Mary have loved it (2 girls and 1 guy), but he also gets the message--mainly from those who haven't gone--that it's a real grind. He's not a nerdy kid or particularly "driven" beyond the typical reasonably high-achieving NOVA kid--generally studious and athletic with several strong social groups. He works hard but likes to go out with friends, have down time etc . His GPA and test scores put him around the upper quarter of both schools, but some of his acquaintances have expressed surprise that he wouldn't choose UVA. My advice to him is to go with his own gut, but I would like some feedback from parents of kids--especially boys-- at William and Mary on whether it's significantly harder than other similarly ranked schools and whether their kids feel like they are having fun. He will be going to both "accepted student days" before his decision, so this is more I think for my own reassurance.

Based on what I've seen, the people who think it is a good fit really enjoy it there. Four year graduation rate is one of the highest and the alumni giving rate is I think the highest for national public universities. These are probably indirect indicators of satisfaction.

Regarding the perception of thinking it is a grind, I can think of a couple of data points. First, if you look at a site called gradeinflation.com, you can see that it does not have grade inflation (almost all schools have grade inflation) and actual GPAs are quite high (same as UVA). (The easiest grading schools are usually highly selective ones like Brown.) There was also a survey from a couple of years ago by one of the state newspapers on amount of time spent studying at state universities. The time spent at W&M in a week was within an hour of W&L and UVA, if I recall correctly (W&L was highest, then W&M, then UVA). That is a very insignificant difference, really.

W&M alum here. I loved my experience. The professors were amazing - invited us over to their homes, small seminars, etc. It all really depends on what you choose to study though. All my friends and I look back fondly on our experience. Several things to consider:

1 - Not enough national recognition for the amount of work and quality of education

2 - Not a lot of diversity

3 - No grade inflation - so it may be much harder to get into grad school

I would say not enough popular recognition. The level of respect within academia is almost unparalleled.

W&M alum here. I loved my experience. The professors were amazing - invited us over to their homes, small seminars, etc. It all really depends on what you choose to study though. All my friends and I look back fondly on our experience. Several things to consider:

1 - Not enough national recognition for the amount of work and quality of education

2 - Not a lot of diversity

3 - No grade inflation - so it may be much harder to get into grad school

Happy 326th Birthday William and Mary. Alma Mater of the nation. Go Tribe!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS just got a postcard from William and Mary indicating he will likely be accepted.

LOL!

You just made an ass of yourself. It's a real thing that W&M does. Do some research before trying to be the funniest person in the room.

^ yep. The LOL was undeserved. W&M's way of telling you you're getting in.