Anonymous wrote:I feel like the article kind of misrepresents the author's thesis. Read this instead:
https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/02/american-parents-scandinavian-different/582103/

The author of 'love, money and parenting' wanted to know why parenting was fun in Scandinavia where he used to live, and not so fun in America, where he now lives. he concludes that in Scandinavia there's much less payoff for being the best student, etc. since all of the schools are pretty good (don't have to have a fortune to live in a good school district); and since all the universities are pretty good too (You're not going to die if you don't get into princeton).

In other words, there's not a sense in Scandinavia that if you fall behind, your kid is going to be downwardly mobile and doomed to a life of poverty.

Parenting is less fun in America because it's perceived as incredibly high stakes, and it's considered possible to screw it up and suffer the consequences.

So we're starting to parent more like people do in places like India where education is your ticket out of poverty.

Personally, this just makes me sad. The message I took away wasn't "helicopter parenting works" but rather "how sad that in America childhood is no longer fun."

This is a wonderful post. Thank you

sending children to private school <> helicoptering. spending months researching schools to find the right fit for your child = helicoptering.

I did not read the book, but the article appear to conflate parents' involvement and the authoritative parenting style with the ability to pay for private schools. These are two completely different things. I hope the authors of the book do a better job.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sending kids to private school and paying for lots of activities isn’t helicopter parenting.

I agree and that's my main issue with the (original) article. Helicoptering is when a parent is overly involved in a child's life, refusing to let the child experience natural, negative consequences for his actions (i.e. complaining to a teacher to change a bad grade), inappropriately advocating on his behalf when he should be speaking up for himself, directing everything from his play time to his social interactions.

Isn't sending a kid to private school kind of the definition of directing a child's social interactions? You are limiting his peer group to a carefully curated group.

I just don't see any way research like this can control for confounders.

Anonymous wrote:20:58

And while I'm on a roll here, please transfer this complaining energy to getting things that America needs, such as : federally protected maternity and paternity leave, federally subsidized daycares, universal health care coverage and medications that don't cost the earth... wealthy nations around the world all do better on this than the US.

*standing ovation*

Anonymous wrote:Sending kids to private school and paying for lots of activities isn’t helicopter parenting.

I agree and that's my main issue with the (original) article. Helicoptering is when a parent is overly involved in a child's life, refusing to let the child experience natural, negative consequences for his actions (i.e. complaining to a teacher to change a bad grade), inappropriately advocating on his behalf when he should be speaking up for himself, directing everything from his play time to his social interactions.

Anonymous wrote:Sending kids to private school and paying for lots of activities isn’t helicopter parenting.

No more or less so than buying/renting based on a school zone or entering a lottery for something other than your assigned school--any of the three is making guiding your kid to a specific school setting that would not be the default based on perceived benefits. But it's not generally what's considered helicopter parenting. (You can certainly be a helicopter parent and have your kid enrolled in a half dozen activities that you're overly involved in, but you can just as easily not be.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sending kids to private school and paying for lots of activities isn’t helicopter parenting.

Yes it is.

I think the author of the NYT article uses a non-mainstream definition of helicopter parenting.

Definition in the article: making sure your kid's time is spent on high-ROI activities.

Popular definition: micro-managing your child in their high-ROI activities so they don't have a chance to fail and learn from mistakes.

Private school and activities can fit the definition of both but only if the parent micro-manages.

For the record: there are high-ROI activities that don't have a high monetary cost cost; high-ROI activities can include intensive parental involvement; intensive parental involvement can be done in a way that still lets the child fail and learn from mistakes.

I think I agree with you.

20:58

And while I'm on a roll here, please transfer this complaining energy to getting things that America needs, such as : federally protected maternity and paternity leave, federally subsidized daycares, universal health care coverage and medications that don't cost the earth... wealthy nations around the world all do better on this than the US.

What I notice is just a whole lot of whining here in DCUM land.

Asian countries are BY FAR the most cut-throat places to raise children. Japan has been that way for decades, and student suicides have been problematic for a long time, and the birth rate is dangerously low, because fewer adults want to deal with the unpleasantness of raising kids.

You want to know what a late-elementary-schooler is doing in Tokyo? Spending afternoons prepping. For what? For the entrance exam to the "best" afternoon prep school. For what? So that the "best" afternoon prep school can prepare him or her for the entrance exam to the "best" middle school... there is no outside playing time, fun extracurriculars, etc, if you're a Japanese kid on the success treadmill.

I am half-Japanese, and was not raised in Japan. I was educated in Europe. There is less pressure, but a lot less variety and choice in extra-curriculars, because the emphasis is on academics, and the schools days are longer, which means less time to drive up and down the country chasing the extras.

The complainers on here just don't know how GOOD they have it and how balanced and healthy their children's lives actually are.

Wake-up and be glad you and your kids are here in the US.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the article kind of misrepresents the author's thesis. Read this instead:
https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/02/american-parents-scandinavian-different/582103/

The author of 'love, money and parenting' wanted to know why parenting was fun in Scandinavia where he used to live, and not so fun in America, where he now lives. he concludes that in Scandinavia there's much less payoff for being the best student, etc. since all of the schools are pretty good (don't have to have a fortune to live in a good school district); and since all the universities are pretty good too (You're not going to die if you don't get into princeton).

In other words, there's not a sense in Scandinavia that if you fall behind, your kid is going to be downwardly mobile and doomed to a life of poverty.

Parenting is less fun in America because it's perceived as incredibly high stakes, and it's considered possible to screw it up and suffer the consequences.

So we're starting to parent more like people do in places like India where education is your ticket out of poverty.

Personally, this just makes me sad. The message I took away wasn't "helicopter parenting works" but rather "how sad that in America childhood is no longer fun."

There’s actually a lot of mental illness and high suicide rates in Scandinavia. The culture can be stifling. Everyone is the SAME. You’re supposed to go along with the status quo. Laws and taxes keep everyone the same. So there is NO point in trying to pressure your kid to go to a top school, certain career, etc. because it ultimately will make very little difference in their life.

FWIW, there are serious waiting lists for top daycares in one Scandinavian country. It’s not as egalitarian as you might think

Of course there’s a point. There are people who are better off and who have more interesting careers that they have worked hard for. It’s just that no one is poor- which hopefully doesn’t pain you. But there’s a big difference between renting cars at the airport as a job and being a university professor. So there is a point to working hard[i].

Not really. You won’t be much better off financially, you’ll retire with your gov pension at the same time (private retirement is less common), and you’ll have Access to the same healthcare. You might have a little more debt as personal debt is the highest in the world, but that’s about it.

One is intellectually stimulating and one is mind numbingly boring. There is a difference. And they are not paid the same. You should try actually visiting other countries and getting to know people there.

I was an exchange student in one of the countries but nice try

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the article kind of misrepresents the author's thesis. Read this instead:
https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/02/american-parents-scandinavian-different/582103/

The author of 'love, money and parenting' wanted to know why parenting was fun in Scandinavia where he used to live, and not so fun in America, where he now lives. he concludes that in Scandinavia there's much less payoff for being the best student, etc. since all of the schools are pretty good (don't have to have a fortune to live in a good school district); and since all the universities are pretty good too (You're not going to die if you don't get into princeton).

In other words, there's not a sense in Scandinavia that if you fall behind, your kid is going to be downwardly mobile and doomed to a life of poverty.

Parenting is less fun in America because it's perceived as incredibly high stakes, and it's considered possible to screw it up and suffer the consequences.

So we're starting to parent more like people do in places like India where education is your ticket out of poverty.

Personally, this just makes me sad. The message I took away wasn't "helicopter parenting works" but rather "how sad that in America childhood is no longer fun."

There’s actually a lot of mental illness and high suicide rates in Scandinavia. The culture can be stifling. Everyone is the SAME. You’re supposed to go along with the status quo. Laws and taxes keep everyone the same. So there is NO point in trying to pressure your kid to go to a top school, certain career, etc. because it ultimately will make very little difference in their life.

FWIW, there are serious waiting lists for top daycares in one Scandinavian country. It’s not as egalitarian as you might think

Of course there’s a point. There are people who are better off and who have more interesting careers that they have worked hard for. It’s just that no one is poor- which hopefully doesn’t pain you. But there’s a big difference between renting cars at the airport as a job and being a university professor. So there is a point to working hard[i].

Not really. You won’t be much better off financially, you’ll retire with your gov pension at the same time (private retirement is less common), and you’ll have Access to the same healthcare. You might have a little more debt as personal debt is the highest in the world, but that’s about it.

One is intellectually stimulating and one is mind numbingly boring. There is a difference. And they are not paid the same. You should try actually visiting other countries and getting to know people there.

And no one from that country wants to come here - I wonder why that is??

We’ve known Swedes here in DC (temporarily for jobs) and they haven’t even been satisfied with the top private schools for their kids here, whereas they are quite happy with the free schools in their country.
Don’t even start on healthcare.

I wouldn’t base much on this. Swedes complain a lot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the article kind of misrepresents the author's thesis. Read this instead:
https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/02/american-parents-scandinavian-different/582103/

The author of 'love, money and parenting' wanted to know why parenting was fun in Scandinavia where he used to live, and not so fun in America, where he now lives. he concludes that in Scandinavia there's much less payoff for being the best student, etc. since all of the schools are pretty good (don't have to have a fortune to live in a good school district); and since all the universities are pretty good too (You're not going to die if you don't get into princeton).

In other words, there's not a sense in Scandinavia that if you fall behind, your kid is going to be downwardly mobile and doomed to a life of poverty.

Parenting is less fun in America because it's perceived as incredibly high stakes, and it's considered possible to screw it up and suffer the consequences.

So we're starting to parent more like people do in places like India where education is your ticket out of poverty.

Personally, this just makes me sad. The message I took away wasn't "helicopter parenting works" but rather "how sad that in America childhood is no longer fun."

There’s actually a lot of mental illness and high suicide rates in Scandinavia. The culture can be stifling. Everyone is the SAME. You’re supposed to go along with the status quo. Laws and taxes keep everyone the same. So there is NO point in trying to pressure your kid to go to a top school, certain career, etc. because it ultimately will make very little difference in their life.

FWIW, there are serious waiting lists for top daycares in one Scandinavian country. It’s not as egalitarian as you might think

Of course there’s a point. There are people who are better off and who have more interesting careers that they have worked hard for. It’s just that no one is poor- which hopefully doesn’t pain you. But there’s a big difference between renting cars at the airport as a job and being a university professor. So there is a point to working hard[i].

Not really. You won’t be much better off financially, you’ll retire with your gov pension at the same time (private retirement is less common), and you’ll have Access to the same healthcare. You might have a little more debt as personal debt is the highest in the world, but that’s about it.

One is intellectually stimulating and one is mind numbingly boring. There is a difference. And they are not paid the same. You should try actually visiting other countries and getting to know people there.

And no one from that country wants to come here - I wonder why that is??

We’ve known Swedes here in DC (temporarily for jobs) and they haven’t even been satisfied with the top private schools for their kids here, whereas they are quite happy with the free schools in their country.
Don’t even start on healthcare.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the article kind of misrepresents the author's thesis. Read this instead:
https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/02/american-parents-scandinavian-different/582103/

The author of 'love, money and parenting' wanted to know why parenting was fun in Scandinavia where he used to live, and not so fun in America, where he now lives. he concludes that in Scandinavia there's much less payoff for being the best student, etc. since all of the schools are pretty good (don't have to have a fortune to live in a good school district); and since all the universities are pretty good too (You're not going to die if you don't get into princeton).

In other words, there's not a sense in Scandinavia that if you fall behind, your kid is going to be downwardly mobile and doomed to a life of poverty.

Parenting is less fun in America because it's perceived as incredibly high stakes, and it's considered possible to screw it up and suffer the consequences.

So we're starting to parent more like people do in places like India where education is your ticket out of poverty.

Personally, this just makes me sad. The message I took away wasn't "helicopter parenting works" but rather "how sad that in America childhood is no longer fun."

There’s actually a lot of mental illness and high suicide rates in Scandinavia. The culture can be stifling. Everyone is the SAME. You’re supposed to go along with the status quo. Laws and taxes keep everyone the same. So there is NO point in trying to pressure your kid to go to a top school, certain career, etc. because it ultimately will make very little difference in their life.

FWIW, there are serious waiting lists for top daycares in one Scandinavian country. It’s not as egalitarian as you might think

Of course there’s a point. There are people who are better off and who have more interesting careers that they have worked hard for. It’s just that no one is poor- which hopefully doesn’t pain you. But there’s a big difference between renting cars at the airport as a job and being a university professor. So there is a point to working hard[i].

Not really. You won’t be much better off financially, you’ll retire with your gov pension at the same time (private retirement is less common), and you’ll have Access to the same healthcare. You might have a little more debt as personal debt is the highest in the world, but that’s about it.

One is intellectually stimulating and one is mind numbingly boring. There is a difference. And they are not paid the same. You should try actually visiting other countries and getting to know people there.