Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immigration is good.

OP here, and I agree. Legal, merit-based immigration is good.

Has she ever outright stated that illegal immigration is good? I know she is for DACA, but so are many Americans.

I don't know about Hillary but yes some Dems have outright praised illegal immigrants (looking at you Nancy) as if it's a virtue.

At the beginning of his campaign Bernie even had some frank speak on how illegal immigrants undercut wages for low income Americans... And then the party got to him and he shut up pretty quickly on that line.

Yes, but by that same token some Rs have outright stated they only want white Europeans to be able to immigrate here, so I don't think it's fair to characterize the entire Dem party or HRC as pro-illegal immigration, unless Rs are willing to agree that their party is only for legal immigration of whites.

Please do provide links to this assertion. I'd really love to know exactly what Republican elected official has stated they only want "white Europeans to be able to immigrate here". I'll be waiting.

Some quotes from Congressman Steve King:

"“I would ask you to go back through history and figure out where are these contributions that have been made by these other categories of people that you are talking about, where did any other subgroup of people contribute more to civilization?" King responded. When Chris Hayes asked King if he meant no group had done more than white people, he replied, "Than — than western civilization itself that's rooted in western Europe, eastern Europe and the United States of America, and every place where Christianity settled the world. That's all of western civilization.""

Utah Rep. Jason Chaffetz isn’t the only one who compares health-care costs to the cost of iPhones. In a September 2016 congressional hearing on the Hyde Amendment, King made comments about abortion causing a black genocide — a common myth cited by anti-abortion activists. Then when questioned by Rewire’s Christine Grimaldi, he later implied that even if he tried to prevent them from this "genocide" — by ensuring Medicaid would not cover abortion — African-Americans would find a way to terminate pregnancies anyway. After saying abortion was a “tragedy for any life, no matter what color,” King also responded, “They chose to have an abortion. I would give you even money that a vast majority of mothers who say they can’t afford an abortion have an iPhone, which costs more.”

Considering his long history of racially offensive quotes it shouldn't surprise anyone that King did little to condemn the actions of white supremacists in Charlottesville, Virginia. King called the battle around the Confederate flag newly emerged and "politically driven," rather than acknowledge the symbol it has played in over a century of racial inequity. "Let’s put that stuff behind us in history,” King told local Iowa television station KCCI 8, according to Think Progress. “The Civil War was history, the Confederacy was history. There’s a symbol there that means slavery to some, but it means a historical pride in the south in others, and we should be able to look at it as history.”

February 2015: Steve King tweeted a political cartoon depicting Barack Obama wearing a turban.


https://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/a9129973/steve-king-quotes-abortion-immigration/
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/15/us/politics/steve-king-offensive-quotes.html
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ez8a44/a-short-history-of-congressman-steve-king-saying-racist-shit

Anonymous wrote:I am pretty far left but I would prefer the Democrats move to the right on immigration. We cannot have what we want- medicare for all, low cost college, maternity leave, higher wages, stronger unions, low cost childcare- unless we have pretty strict limits on immigration. The Democrats' Wall Street and Silicon Valley stand in the way. I am waiting for common sense to break through.

I agree with you, but I am most concerned about competition for low income work. It's not fair to people who aren't cut out for college or high level work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pretty far left but I would prefer the Democrats move to the right on immigration. We cannot have what we want- medicare for all, low cost college, maternity leave, higher wages, stronger unions, low cost childcare- unless we have pretty strict limits on immigration. The Democrats' Wall Street and Silicon Valley stand in the way. I am waiting for common sense to break through.

Fail. Real progressives wants everyone to have access to those things, not just to redraw the line between the haves and have-nots to include themselves at the expense of others. But good on you for trying to imitate.

Everyone can't have everything. Drawing the line at citizens and legal residents to receive benefits is perfectly reasonable.

Like every other country on earth. Totally agree.

Anonymous wrote:In the mid-2000s Democrats concluded that they should begin pandering to Latinos as demographics were expected to favor them in the near future. Previously, Democrats were big supporters of building fences and border security. After the mid 2000s, they shifted course and started to push for amnesty and suddenly opposed walls or fences, while implying that the very concept was racist.

Their mistake was assuming that most Latinos personally identify with illegal immigrants. They also overestimated the decline of white voters and the growth or Latino voters. Another mistake was not foreseeing that white voters are disproportionately in battleground states, where big losses in white votes far outweighs the minor gains in Latino votes in other states.

+1
Lots of mistakes on the part of Democrats. The bolded, in particular, is a mistake they still don't seem to "get".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immigration is good.

OP here, and I agree. Legal, merit-based immigration is good.

Has she ever outright stated that illegal immigration is good? I know she is for DACA, but so are many Americans.

I don't know about Hillary but yes some Dems have outright praised illegal immigrants (looking at you Nancy) as if it's a virtue.

At the beginning of his campaign Bernie even had some frank speak on how illegal immigrants undercut wages for low income Americans... And then the party got to him and he shut up pretty quickly on that line.

Yes, but by that same token some Rs have outright stated they only want white Europeans to be able to immigrate here, so I don't think it's fair to characterize the entire Dem party or HRC as pro-illegal immigration, unless Rs are willing to agree that their party is only for legal immigration of whites.

Please do provide links to this assertion. I'd really love to know exactly what Republican elected official has stated they only want "white Europeans to be able to immigrate here". I'll be waiting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pretty far left but I would prefer the Democrats move to the right on immigration. We cannot have what we want- medicare for all, low cost college, maternity leave, higher wages, stronger unions, low cost childcare- unless we have pretty strict limits on immigration. The Democrats' Wall Street and Silicon Valley stand in the way. I am waiting for common sense to break through.

Fail. Real progressives wants everyone to have access to those things, not just to redraw the line between the haves and have-nots to include themselves at the expense of others. But good on you for trying to imitate.

Not the PP, but what do you mean by "everyone"? Are you including illegal immigrants in that equation? What the PP said made perfect sense. We can't have all of these things for U.S. CITIZENS if we're also handing it out to those who come here illegally.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immigration is good.

OP here, and I agree. Legal, merit-based immigration is good.

Has she ever outright stated that illegal immigration is good? I know she is for DACA, but so are many Americans.

She has never outright condemned illegal immigration. Ever.

Anonymous wrote:I am pretty far left but I would prefer the Democrats move to the right on immigration. We cannot have what we want- medicare for all, low cost college, maternity leave, higher wages, stronger unions, low cost childcare- unless we have pretty strict limits on immigration. The Democrats' Wall Street and Silicon Valley stand in the way. I am waiting for common sense to break through.

THIS. I wouldn't say that I'm far left, but I'm liberal. Immigration is the topic I'm most conservative about & I don't understand Democrats on this. One only has to look at the Los Angeles Teacher strike to show the ramifications of when you try to provide services to everyone. European countries with wide safety nets have incredibly tight immigration.

Anonymous wrote:Two words: Barbara Jordan. Heck Dick Gephardt was "America First" when Trump was still a Democrat:

http://www.4president.org/speeches/1988/dickgephardt1988announcement.htm

Exactly. Her commission is a perfect example.

Anonymous wrote:In the mid-2000s Democrats concluded that they should begin pandering to Latinos as demographics were expected to favor them in the near future. Previously, Democrats were big supporters of building fences and border security. After the mid 2000s, they shifted course and started to push for amnesty and suddenly opposed walls or fences, while implying that the very concept was racist.

Their mistake was assuming that most Latinos personally identify with illegal immigrants. They also overestimated the decline of white voters and the growth or Latino voters. Another mistake was not foreseeing that white voters are disproportionately in battleground states, where big losses in white votes far outweighs the minor gains in Latino votes in other states.

This nails it. Democrats in recent history were against illegal immigration and specifically were against the things that incentivized people to come here illegally. Now they've got a rallying cry/crusade to go on and even better if they can poke their thumb in Trump's eye while doing it.

Two words: Barbara Jordan. Heck Dick Gephardt was "America First" when Trump was still a Democrat:

http://www.4president.org/speeches/1988/dickgephardt1988announcement.htm

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pretty far left but I would prefer the Democrats move to the right on immigration. We cannot have what we want- medicare for all, low cost college, maternity leave, higher wages, stronger unions, low cost childcare- unless we have pretty strict limits on immigration. The Democrats' Wall Street and Silicon Valley stand in the way. I am waiting for common sense to break through.

Fail. Real progressives wants everyone to have access to those things, not just to redraw the line between the haves and have-nots to include themselves at the expense of others. But good on you for trying to imitate.

Everyone can't have everything. Drawing the line at citizens and legal residents to receive benefits is perfectly reasonable.

In the mid-2000s Democrats concluded that they should begin pandering to Latinos as demographics were expected to favor them in the near future. Previously, Democrats were big supporters of building fences and border security. After the mid 2000s, they shifted course and started to push for amnesty and suddenly opposed walls or fences, while implying that the very concept was racist.

Their mistake was assuming that most Latinos personally identify with illegal immigrants. They also overestimated the decline of white voters and the growth or Latino voters. Another mistake was not foreseeing that white voters are disproportionately in battleground states, where big losses in white votes far outweighs the minor gains in Latino votes in other states.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immigration is good.

OP here, and I agree. Legal, merit-based immigration is good.

Has she ever outright stated that illegal immigration is good? I know she is for DACA, but so are many Americans.

I don't know about Hillary but yes some Dems have outright praised illegal immigrants (looking at you Nancy) as if it's a virtue.

At the beginning of his campaign Bernie even had some frank speak on how illegal immigrants undercut wages for low income Americans... And then the party got to him and he shut up pretty quickly on that line.

Yes, but by that same token some Rs have outright stated they only want white Europeans to be able to immigrate here, so I don't think it's fair to characterize the entire Dem party or HRC as pro-illegal immigration, unless Rs are willing to agree that their party is only for legal immigration of whites.

I think the US' relationship with illegal immigration is complicated. Obviously, illegal immigration is wrong, but, they do provide some benefit to the economy -- just ask those Rs farmer who hire many of them, and even Trump's resorts. Rs love cheap foreign labor. That's why Trump originally chose an avowed lover of cheap foreign labor as Labor Sec. That's why a rich GOP donor and Koch brothers fought against e-verify in FL.

I'm not saying there aren't Dems who seem to be fine with illegal immigration, but at least they aren't hypocrites about it, whereas you have one part of the R party who hate illegal immigration and want a wall built, but another part whose businesses thrive on it. Some Rs are even against the wall, even in TX, where the wall would be built.

As I stated, this country's relationship with illegal immigration is really complicated. That doesn't mean we shouldn't address it, but it does mean that the wall isn't going to solve the issue of immigration, especially considering so many illegal immigrants now come from visa overstays. Let's say a person comes over on a H2A visa to work on a farm. The visa expires but he decides to stay because that farmer is willing to keep him because he's a good worker. The farmer wants to renew his visa but it's bogged down in bureaucracy, so he decides to keep him and pay him under the table. This is a common occurrence.


I don't think the Dems have lost their way regarding legal immigration. They have historically been for legal immigration. The 1965 Immigration act by LBJ (Dem) repealed the national origin quota, enabling many from nonwhite countries to immigrate to the US. Removing the quota lead to an expansion in immigration from, yes, sh1thole countries (full disclosure: I am one of these legal immigrants post the 1965 act from a former sh1thole country).

[quotas in immigration in] 1920s in a deliberate attempt to limit the entry of Southern and Eastern European immigrants—or more specifically Jews from the Russian Pale and Catholics from Poland and Italy, groups at the time deemed “unassimilable.” The quotas supplemented prohibitions already in place that effectively banned the entry of Asians and Africans.
1965 amendments were intended to purge immigration law of its racist legacy by replacing the old quotas with a new system that allocated residence visas according to a neutral preference system based on family reunification and labor force needs. The new system is widely credited with having sparked a shift in the composition of immigration away from Europe toward Asia and Latin America, along with a substantial increase in the number of immigrants.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3407978/

Note how the 1920s quota was meant to keep what we deem now "assimilated" Italians, Poles and Russians from immigrating to the US. These views are very similar to the views held by many of the descendants of these Italians, Poles and Russians towards today's Mexicans and others, accusing them of not assimilating, when in fact, the next generation or the one after do assimilate fairly well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pretty far left but I would prefer the Democrats move to the right on immigration. We cannot have what we want- medicare for all, low cost college, maternity leave, higher wages, stronger unions, low cost childcare- unless we have pretty strict limits on immigration. The Democrats' Wall Street and Silicon Valley stand in the way. I am waiting for common sense to break through.

Fail. Real progressives wants everyone to have access to those things, not just to redraw the line between the haves and have-nots to include themselves at the expense of others. But good on you for trying to imitate.

You are trolling, right? Who died and made you judge of everyone? Pssst... other people can have views that are not your views!

Where in my post did I indicate that I want to draw a line between haves and have-nots?