Anonymous
Post 01/14/2019 08:50     Subject: Sad commentary on the American way of life
Anonymous wrote:I work at a tech company, so most people here are fairly well paid.

Had a coworker who just came back from a trip abroad complain that she would have to pay back her credit cards for the next 6 months or so.

Then a few weeks later she told me she just got a $3,000 living room set. "You can't just have nothing in your living room!!!"

I grew up poor and my parents were living paycheck to paycheck because they made very little money, so I understand the poverty cycle rather too well. It's insulting when you see people with well paying jobs willingly subject themselves to that life.



That example cracks me up. We had nothing but carpeting on our living growing up, and it was the most fun room to play in. I vividly remember when my mom finally started to get furniture one piece at a time, and the room was complete when we were in high school.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2019 08:45     Subject: Re:Sad commentary on the American way of life
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do you guys know how much housing and childcare cost around here?

I'm the person who posted in the furlough thread about feeling stupid for. buying 3 pieces of furniture. For context, my living room has had literally only seating i have scavenged from the curb for free for the last 2.5 years. Finally I got tired of living off other people's trash and spent $300 on a used coffee table and 2 chairs. Replacing the trash couch is still too expensive, that will wait. And i still don't have curtains, just cheap blinds.

Meanwhile, I have spent $1500/month on day care during this period, and until I got a federal job this spring i was spending $900/month for family health insurance. But you really think it's consumerism that holds people back from saving? How deeply out of touch and moralistic.


That's your situation.

From the other thread, people are talking about Prada and Gucci and plane tickets and cleaning services...and yet they say money is tight. Isn't that consumerism? Over spending?

Housing and day care are expensive. Therefore, people must minimize housing costs and make tough decisions about when to have a baby, how many kids to have, etc. And obviously two incomes tend to be better than one.


Omg, Poors shouldn’t have kids.

And minimize housing costs? Pray tell how?

And btw, pretty sure if they are paying for day care, they have two incomes!!


Single parents need daycare, too.

People shouldn't have kids they can't afford (and they certainly shouldn't have a handful of kids).

People shouldn't live above their means. Nobody is entitled to a fancy apartment with lots of amenities or a McMansion in the best school district. Some housing is more expensive than others. Choose wisely.

And nobody is entitled to a new car or new iPhone on a regular basis. I've noticed that everyone I know who lives paycheck to paycheck has a newer car and newer phone than I do. I drive my cars until they die (12 years or so); ditto for my phone.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2019 08:42     Subject: Sad commentary on the American way of life
Anonymous wrote:FFS people. This has been studied extensively. The vast majority of people are in the whole b/c rising housing, education, and medical.

Maybe they could save up $1K by returning to the 90s and forsaking a cell phone for a beeper.

But what happens is they save that $1k, then it is seized for a medical debt. Bought goods are harder to seize, so by spending it, they get to ‘keep’ it.

But they are on the edge to begin with b/c housing, medical, and education.

And I agree, lack of unions goes right along with that.


Real wages have been stagnant since about 1972.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2019 08:42     Subject: Re:Sad commentary on the American way of life
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do you guys know how much housing and childcare cost around here?

I'm the person who posted in the furlough thread about feeling stupid for. buying 3 pieces of furniture. For context, my living room has had literally only seating i have scavenged from the curb for free for the last 2.5 years. Finally I got tired of living off other people's trash and spent $300 on a used coffee table and 2 chairs. Replacing the trash couch is still too expensive, that will wait. And i still don't have curtains, just cheap blinds.

Meanwhile, I have spent $1500/month on day care during this period, and until I got a federal job this spring i was spending $900/month for family health insurance. But you really think it's consumerism that holds people back from saving? How deeply out of touch and moralistic.


That's your situation.

From the other thread, people are talking about Prada and Gucci and plane tickets and cleaning services...and yet they say money is tight. Isn't that consumerism? Over spending?

Housing and day care are expensive. Therefore, people must minimize housing costs and make tough decisions about when to have a baby, how many kids to have, etc. And obviously two incomes tend to be better than one.


Omg, Poors shouldn’t have kids.

And minimize housing costs? Pray tell how?

And btw, pretty sure if they are paying for day care, they have two incomes!!


(In case I am not clear, I’m saying that PP is implying that poor people should make hard choices about kids means poor folks shouldn’t have kids, but basically the standard 2.5 kids amercan dream is dead)
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2019 08:41     Subject: Re:Sad commentary on the American way of life
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do you guys know how much housing and childcare cost around here?

I'm the person who posted in the furlough thread about feeling stupid for. buying 3 pieces of furniture. For context, my living room has had literally only seating i have scavenged from the curb for free for the last 2.5 years. Finally I got tired of living off other people's trash and spent $300 on a used coffee table and 2 chairs. Replacing the trash couch is still too expensive, that will wait. And i still don't have curtains, just cheap blinds.

Meanwhile, I have spent $1500/month on day care during this period, and until I got a federal job this spring i was spending $900/month for family health insurance. But you really think it's consumerism that holds people back from saving? How deeply out of touch and moralistic.


That's your situation.

From the other thread, people are talking about Prada and Gucci and plane tickets and cleaning services...and yet they say money is tight. Isn't that consumerism? Over spending?

Housing and day care are expensive. Therefore, people must minimize housing costs and make tough decisions about when to have a baby, how many kids to have, etc. And obviously two incomes tend to be better than one.


Omg, Poors shouldn’t have kids.

And minimize housing costs? Pray tell how?

And btw, pretty sure if they are paying for day care, they have two incomes!!
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2019 08:39     Subject: Sad commentary on the American way of life
FFS people. This has been studied extensively. The vast majority of people are in the whole b/c rising housing, education, and medical.

Maybe they could save up $1K by returning to the 90s and forsaking a cell phone for a beeper.

But what happens is they save that $1k, then it is seized for a medical debt. Bought goods are harder to seize, so by spending it, they get to ‘keep’ it.

But they are on the edge to begin with b/c housing, medical, and education.

And I agree, lack of unions goes right along with that.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2019 08:30     Subject: Re:Sad commentary on the American way of life
Anonymous wrote:Do you guys know how much housing and childcare cost around here?

I'm the person who posted in the furlough thread about feeling stupid for. buying 3 pieces of furniture. For context, my living room has had literally only seating i have scavenged from the curb for free for the last 2.5 years. Finally I got tired of living off other people's trash and spent $300 on a used coffee table and 2 chairs. Replacing the trash couch is still too expensive, that will wait. And i still don't have curtains, just cheap blinds.

Meanwhile, I have spent $1500/month on day care during this period, and until I got a federal job this spring i was spending $900/month for family health insurance. But you really think it's consumerism that holds people back from saving? How deeply out of touch and moralistic.


That's your situation.

From the other thread, people are talking about Prada and Gucci and plane tickets and cleaning services...and yet they say money is tight. Isn't that consumerism? Over spending?

Housing and day care are expensive. Therefore, people must minimize housing costs and make tough decisions about when to have a baby, how many kids to have, etc. And obviously two incomes tend to be better than one.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2019 08:24     Subject: Sad commentary on the American way of life
The key is to flight lifestyle inflation and to reject "stuff". We have no college debt because of our families, but I chose a free grad school (Ph.D) vs a professional masters degree. We have one cheap TV, no cable service, and did a lot of research and planning to get into a daycare that is MUCH cheaper that typical ones in DC. I lived like a grad student for years after I got my fed job. I thought my friends who were constantly getting 3-4 drinks at happy hour and going to get takeout and took ubers all over the place were insane. Thankfully we don't have to find $1K/mo for college loans in our budget, but we still save a lot on "modest" HHI for DCUM .

I TOTALLY get why some people can't save money due to circumstances, but lifestyle inflation is not a good reason!
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2019 08:17     Subject: Sad commentary on the American way of life
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Unions!

And yes, people should reject consumerism. It’s stupid. But unions are a way to fix lots of problems.


How would unions improve the savings rates?

They might improve salaries, maybe, but that has nothing to do with savings.


Of course it does. When you make more money it’s easier to save.


So your theory is that wages for everything should be higher but the cost of everything will remain the same?

Or is it that now that once people have more money they won’t change their consumption habits? Won’t buy a nicer home/car/clothes/vacation etc?


Are you saying that wages for middle and lower class workers are high enough and they should just spend less, despite evidence that wages have been pretty much stagnant for decades except for the top 10% and the fact that costs such as housing and education have skyrocketed?


No.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2019 08:17     Subject: Re:Sad commentary on the American way of life
Do you guys know how much housing and childcare cost around here?

I'm the person who posted in the furlough thread about feeling stupid for. buying 3 pieces of furniture. For context, my living room has had literally only seating i have scavenged from the curb for free for the last 2.5 years. Finally I got tired of living off other people's trash and spent $300 on a used coffee table and 2 chairs. Replacing the trash couch is still too expensive, that will wait. And i still don't have curtains, just cheap blinds.

Meanwhile, I have spent $1500/month on day care during this period, and until I got a federal job this spring i was spending $900/month for family health insurance. But you really think it's consumerism that holds people back from saving? How deeply out of touch and moralistic.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2019 08:11     Subject: Sad commentary on the American way of life
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Unions!

And yes, people should reject consumerism. It’s stupid. But unions are a way to fix lots of problems.


How would unions improve the savings rates?

They might improve salaries, maybe, but that has nothing to do with savings.


Of course it does. When you make more money it’s easier to save.


No hon, when you make more money you spend more.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2019 08:08     Subject: Sad commentary on the American way of life
Anonymous wrote:Why do you think people are buying? We hardly buy anything other than food and with monthly bills in addition to student debt, we have no spending power to speak of. What is worse is that people think my dh and I are wealthy because of our jobs.


Because of economic reports. Just because you are not buying anything as you claim doesnt mean others arent.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2019 08:06     Subject: Sad commentary on the American way of life
Anonymous wrote:Well that sounds like 2007 all over again. And yet somehow holiday retail sales were record high?? I just don’t get what people are thinking.


They aren't thinking. Yet every family has a few big screen TVs cell phones, expensive sneakers and they just consume consume consume. Literally unable to think more than 24hrs ahead.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2019 08:01     Subject: Sad commentary on the American way of life
Go read the thread in off topic asking what people are cutting back on because of the furlough. There are people referencing Gucci and Prada bags, going out to eat, minimizing target runs, travel, etc. But everyone is keeping their cleaning service.

The bottom line is that many mc/UMC families are living above their means. And that is very different from low-income people or single parents living paycheck to paycheck. Mc/UMC people are making a choice by not saving.

Travel is another area where people live above their means. If you have to put it on a credit card and can't pay for it up front, then you shouldn't take such an expensive trip. Most people save up for a big trip. The over spenders can't save because they blow any money they have access to.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2019 07:55     Subject: Sad commentary on the American way of life
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Unions!

And yes, people should reject consumerism. It’s stupid. But unions are a way to fix lots of problems.


How would unions improve the savings rates?

They might improve salaries, maybe, but that has nothing to do with savings.


Of course it does. When you make more money it’s easier to save.


So your theory is that wages for everything should be higher but the cost of everything will remain the same?

Or is it that now that once people have more money they won’t change their consumption habits? Won’t buy a nicer home/car/clothes/vacation etc?


Are you saying that wages for middle and lower class workers are high enough and they should just spend less, despite evidence that wages have been pretty much stagnant for decades except for the top 10% and the fact that costs such as housing and education have skyrocketed?