Anonymous
Post 01/13/2019 12:27     Subject: Why do top US universities weed out most pre-med kids & then we import foreign MDs?
Anonymous wrote:IMO one of the largest factors is that medical school (like law school) does not screen for the factors that make for a good practitioner and over relies on grades and test scores. This tends to lead to a glut of medical students with astronomical scores and low social skills / emotional IQ. I don’t care as much about the role of foreign trained physicians as the fact that the structure of premedical and medical education weeds out kids who would be truly terrific doctors, particularly in primary care / peds / geriatrics (where the need is highest and “soft skills” are hugely important. I just finished a non-medical masters program at a top medical school. I was horrified at the utter lack of social skills amongst the so called best and brightest and it wasn’t just the international students by a long shot. Truly, it was so bad I worried for my future medical care. I think something has to change!


Sorry, but I’d take a skilled clinician over “soft skills” any day with regards to my health and the health of my family. I could care less if my doctor was Mr. or Ms. super friendly in school if their grades were subpar to the introvert from wherever but that’s sharp as a tack.

Soft skills are a bonus not a necessity.
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2019 12:23     Subject: Why do top US universities weed out most pre-med kids & then we import foreign MDs?
That Stanford article is interesting. The US s investing a lot of $ in doctors who come from non-traditional paths. Is there that kind of emphasis in other countries?
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2019 12:22     Subject: Why do top US universities weed out most pre-med kids & then we import foreign MDs?
Anonymous wrote:And to the person who said they have encountered doctors "from places you have never heard of".....speak for yourself.

Not all Americans are insular and ignorant.


+1. What place have you "never heard of?"
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2019 12:20     Subject: Why do top US universities weed out most pre-med kids & then we import foreign MDs?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do you want anyone other than the brightest and most capable people in charge of your medical care?


I want more English speaking proven high IQ American kids becoming doctors, I don't want tens of thousands of them being arbitrarily weeded out with curved STEM courses and senseless hoops and hyper-selective medical schools rejecting them.


They're being weeded out because they aren't good, not because of curved classes. My God, what sort of entitled snowflakes do you want in charge of your medical care? I certainly don't want a doctor who can't even handle a curved class.


Not really. They are weeded out because of the shortage of residencies. There’s enough demand for more doctors but the infrastructure is not in place provide the supply—partially because it is in the AMA’s interest to keep the supply of doctors lower and keep salaries higher


If your kid can't even handle premed courses, she has no business becoming a doctor.


I think many can “handle” them but are weeded out because they got a B and not an A. Sure you don’t want someone who failed but I don’t think that’s what we’re talking about here


I absolutely do not want a doctor who can't even handle the not-very-hard work required in undergraduate pre-med degrees. My God. Stop trying to blame harder-working, smarter foreign students for the failure of your own child.
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2019 12:14     Subject: Why do top US universities weed out most pre-med kids & then we import foreign MDs?
And to the person who said they have encountered doctors "from places you have never heard of".....speak for yourself.

Not all Americans are insular and ignorant.
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2019 12:11     Subject: Why do top US universities weed out most pre-med kids & then we import foreign MDs?
IMO one of the largest factors is that medical school (like law school) does not screen for the factors that make for a good practitioner and over relies on grades and test scores. This tends to lead to a glut of medical students with astronomical scores and low social skills / emotional IQ. I don’t care as much about the role of foreign trained physicians as the fact that the structure of premedical and medical education weeds out kids who would be truly terrific doctors, particularly in primary care / peds / geriatrics (where the need is highest and “soft skills” are hugely important. I just finished a non-medical masters program at a top medical school. I was horrified at the utter lack of social skills amongst the so called best and brightest and it wasn’t just the international students by a long shot. Truly, it was so bad I worried for my future medical care. I think something has to change!
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2019 12:11     Subject: Why do top US universities weed out most pre-med kids & then we import foreign MDs?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do you want anyone other than the brightest and most capable people in charge of your medical care?


I want more English speaking proven high IQ American kids becoming doctors, I don't want tens of thousands of them being arbitrarily weeded out with curved STEM courses and senseless hoops and hyper-selective medical schools rejecting them.


They're being weeded out because they aren't good, not because of curved classes. My God, what sort of entitled snowflakes do you want in charge of your medical care? I certainly don't want a doctor who can't even handle a curved class.


Not really. They are weeded out because of the shortage of residencies. There’s enough demand for more doctors but the infrastructure is not in place provide the supply—partially because it is in the AMA’s interest to keep the supply of doctors lower and keep salaries higher


If your kid can't even handle premed courses, she has no business becoming a doctor.


I think many can “handle” them but are weeded out because they got a B and not an A. Sure you don’t want someone who failed but I don’t think that’s what we’re talking about here
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2019 12:09     Subject: Why do top US universities weed out most pre-med kids & then we import foreign MDs?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do you want anyone other than the brightest and most capable people in charge of your medical care?


I want more English speaking proven high IQ American kids becoming doctors, I don't want tens of thousands of them being arbitrarily weeded out with curved STEM courses and senseless hoops and hyper-selective medical schools rejecting them.


They're being weeded out because they aren't good, not because of curved classes. My God, what sort of entitled snowflakes do you want in charge of your medical care? I certainly don't want a doctor who can't even handle a curved class.


Not really. They are weeded out because of the shortage of residencies. There’s enough demand for more doctors but the infrastructure is not in place provide the supply—partially because it is in the AMA’s interest to keep the supply of doctors lower and keep salaries higher


If your kid can't even handle premed courses, she has no business becoming a doctor.


+1
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2019 12:08     Subject: Why do top US universities weed out most pre-med kids & then we import foreign MDs?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do you want anyone other than the brightest and most capable people in charge of your medical care?


I want more English speaking proven high IQ American kids becoming doctors, I don't want tens of thousands of them being arbitrarily weeded out with curved STEM courses and senseless hoops and hyper-selective medical schools rejecting them.


They're being weeded out because they aren't good, not because of curved classes. My God, what sort of entitled snowflakes do you want in charge of your medical care? I certainly don't want a doctor who can't even handle a curved class.


Not really. They are weeded out because of the shortage of residencies. There’s enough demand for more doctors but the infrastructure is not in place provide the supply—partially because it is in the AMA’s interest to keep the supply of doctors lower and keep salaries higher


If your kid can't even handle premed courses, she has no business becoming a doctor.
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2019 12:06     Subject: Why do top US universities weed out most pre-med kids & then we import foreign MDs?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do you want anyone other than the brightest and most capable people in charge of your medical care?


I want more English speaking proven high IQ American kids becoming doctors, I don't want tens of thousands of them being arbitrarily weeded out with curved STEM courses and senseless hoops and hyper-selective medical schools rejecting them.


They're being weeded out because they aren't good, not because of curved classes. My God, what sort of entitled snowflakes do you want in charge of your medical care? I certainly don't want a doctor who can't even handle a curved class.


Not really. They are weeded out because of the shortage of residencies. There’s enough demand for more doctors but the infrastructure is not in place provide the supply—partially because it is in the AMA’s interest to keep the supply of doctors lower and keep salaries higher
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2019 12:04     Subject: Why do top US universities weed out most pre-med kids & then we import foreign MDs?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do you want anyone other than the brightest and most capable people in charge of your medical care?


I want more English speaking proven high IQ American kids becoming doctors, I don't want tens of thousands of them being arbitrarily weeded out with curved STEM courses and senseless hoops and hyper-selective medical schools rejecting them.


They are not arbitrarily weeded out. They are weeded out because they can't handle the rigor and lack determination/will power to study.


+1
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2019 12:04     Subject: Why do top US universities weed out most pre-med kids & then we import foreign MDs?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do you want anyone other than the brightest and most capable people in charge of your medical care?


I want more English speaking proven high IQ American kids becoming doctors, I don't want tens of thousands of them being arbitrarily weeded out with curved STEM courses and senseless hoops and hyper-selective medical schools rejecting them.


They are not arbitrarily weeded out. They are weeded out because they can't handle the rigor and lack determination/will power to study.
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2019 11:55     Subject: Why do top US universities weed out most pre-med kids & then we import foreign MDs?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do you want anyone other than the brightest and most capable people in charge of your medical care?


I want more English speaking proven high IQ American kids becoming doctors, I don't want tens of thousands of them being arbitrarily weeded out with curved STEM courses and senseless hoops and hyper-selective medical schools rejecting them.


They're being weeded out because they aren't good, not because of curved classes. My God, what sort of entitled snowflakes do you want in charge of your medical care? I certainly don't want a doctor who can't even handle a curved class.
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2019 11:51     Subject: Why do top US universities weed out most pre-med kids & then we import foreign MDs?
Anonymous wrote:Do you want anyone other than the brightest and most capable people in charge of your medical care?


+1

I want the best doctors. I don't care where they were born. American STEM education is so appalling that foreign students are simply better prepared. I don't think people even understand how bad our STEM education is. Most American kids can't compete.

Signed,

Graduate STEM degree
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2019 11:45     Subject: Re:Why do top US universities weed out most pre-med kids & then we import foreign MDs?
Anonymous wrote:The number of medical school slots is constrained bc residency slots are funded by the federal government through health programs (like medicare and medicaid). IN partnership with the AMA medical schools match the number of admitted students to the number of funded residencies for post-graduate training bc that is what is needed to be a good practicing physician and the cost of delivering this training is very high. When the healthcare system (broadly speaking) hires foreign doctors who are already trained they are finding a way to fill the need for more doctors while bypassing the cost of training them. If we want more "American doctors" we need to spend more money. -- Former Senate HELP committee staffer


This is not completely correct. Even if an immigrant is a practicing doctor in another country, they must still complete a full residency (again) in the US before they can be licensed here.

This is why there are cab drivers in America that were doctors in their homeland. If they don’t get a residency slot, they can’t practice medicine.

So those ‘foreign’ docs you see have a lot of training since they completed med school plus residency abroad, were competitive enough to land a residency here and complete resident training a second time around.