Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m really surprised at the people defending M. I thought we all had “that friend” when we were young. Guilt trips for doing anything with other kids, triangulating, manipulating, dishing out meanness while being hypersensitive to perceived slights. Maybe I’m over-identifying with OP’s daughter, but my best friend treated me like dirt within our little circle of friends. When we moved up to the next school where there was a bigger population, I made new friends. I didn’t mistreat her, I just wanted to be around people who were nice to me. I guess that’s called “exclusion” now. Cue screaming in my face, tearful calls from her mother to mine - a class-A manipulator.

+1 - I was the PP that said I had known some "M's"

Another +1

FWIW, I have a friend who just turned 50 last year, and she's STILL like that. She has a lot of trouble with boundaries (setting them appropriately and respecting those set by others) and will act out and escalate when she feels people pulling away from her in any way. In her case, it's co-dependent behavior, completely tied to her traumatic personal/family history, and something she's been working on forever in therapy.

I like and care about her, but I've had to pull back for periods over the years. It feels horrible to be in a friendship with someone who is acting that way, and I've tried to be both clear and kind when telling her I feel overwhelmed and need some space. I'm not sure she gets how I feel, but I've long gotten over any guilt about it. This is the only way the friendship works for me, and if it doesn't work for her, she can say so and I will disengage.

We each have a right to choose who we spend time with and how, and no one is obligated to spend time with a friend all the time (or include them in every other relationship in their life.) Any friend who persists in arguing otherwise is not a friend worth keeping.

No one is saying you don't have a "right to choose who we spend time with." And nor are you obligated to invite her to everything.

However, there are a host of choices in between all or nothing. That's the problem here, imo. Invite her sometimes. Then, when M complains, at least you can say that you do invite her but sometimes I like to spend time with A and B alone. Or we had plans alone or whatever. Because, you know, that's what friends do.

M is acting like she is because she is sensing her exclusion. And she's right.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter's friend (we'll call her M) does not really have any friends outside their small friend group, whereas my daughter and the other girls in the group have other friends with whom they will sometimes hang out with. They are in 8th grade. Whenever my daughter does something without M, M goes pretty crazy and tells my daughter that if she were a real friend she'd invite M, how she should cancel the plans with the other girls and hang out with her instead, etc. My daughter woke up to a string of 8 text messages this morning telling her what a terrible friend she is, how she doesn't care about M, etc. (similar things have happened in the past).

I don't know what to tell her. Drop the friend?

Why can’t she ever invite her to go join the group and why does she keep their friendship separate? Many friends introduce their friends to each other and they become friends as well and it becomes a larger group.

The other girls do not like M or want to spend time in her company.

Your daughter sounds like a stand-up kid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m really surprised at the people defending M. I thought we all had “that friend” when we were young. Guilt trips for doing anything with other kids, triangulating, manipulating, dishing out meanness while being hypersensitive to perceived slights. Maybe I’m over-identifying with OP’s daughter, but my best friend treated me like dirt within our little circle of friends. When we moved up to the next school where there was a bigger population, I made new friends. I didn’t mistreat her, I just wanted to be around people who were nice to me. I guess that’s called “exclusion” now. Cue screaming in my face, tearful calls from her mother to mine - a class-A manipulator.

+1 - I was the PP that said I had known some "M's"

Another +1

FWIW, I have a friend who just turned 50 last year, and she's STILL like that. She has a lot of trouble with boundaries (setting them appropriately and respecting those set by others) and will act out and escalate when she feels people pulling away from her in any way. In her case, it's co-dependent behavior, completely tied to her traumatic personal/family history, and something she's been working on forever in therapy.

I like and care about her, but I've had to pull back for periods over the years. It feels horrible to be in a friendship with someone who is acting that way, and I've tried to be both clear and kind when telling her I feel overwhelmed and need some space. I'm not sure she gets how I feel, but I've long gotten over any guilt about it. This is the only way the friendship works for me, and if it doesn't work for her, she can say so and I will disengage.

We each have a right to choose who we spend time with and how, and no one is obligated to spend time with a friend all the time (or include them in every other relationship in their life.) Any friend who persists in arguing otherwise is not a friend worth keeping.

Anonymous wrote:"My daughter's friend (we'll call her M) does not really have any friends..."

Ouch. You sound pretty mean yourself, OP. Yikes.

Not OP, but I disagree. This is OP's observation. It's not an opinion or judgment. And it's relevant to the discussion.

If OP provided nasty or superficial comments about M (or why she thinks M does not really have any friends), that might be mean. But then again, it might just be stating a fact.

Anonymous wrote:I’m really surprised at the people defending M. I thought we all had “that friend” when we were young. Guilt trips for doing anything with other kids, triangulating, manipulating, dishing out meanness while being hypersensitive to perceived slights. Maybe I’m over-identifying with OP’s daughter, but my best friend treated me like dirt within our little circle of friends. When we moved up to the next school where there was a bigger population, I made new friends. I didn’t mistreat her, I just wanted to be around people who were nice to me. I guess that’s called “exclusion” now. Cue screaming in my face, tearful calls from her mother to mine - a class-A manipulator.

+1 - I was the PP that said I had known some "M's"

I’m really surprised at the people defending M. I thought we all had “that friend” when we were young. Guilt trips for doing anything with other kids, triangulating, manipulating, dishing out meanness while being hypersensitive to perceived slights. Maybe I’m over-identifying with OP’s daughter, but my best friend treated me like dirt within our little circle of friends. When we moved up to the next school where there was a bigger population, I made new friends. I didn’t mistreat her, I just wanted to be around people who were nice to me. I guess that’s called “exclusion” now. Cue screaming in my face, tearful calls from her mother to mine - a class-A manipulator.

"My daughter's friend (we'll call her M) does not really have any friends..."

Ouch. You sound pretty mean yourself, OP. Yikes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter's friend (we'll call her M) does not really have any friends outside their small friend group, whereas my daughter and the other girls in the group have other friends with whom they will sometimes hang out with. They are in 8th grade. Whenever my daughter does something without M, M goes pretty crazy and tells my daughter that if she were a real friend she'd invite M, how she should cancel the plans with the other girls and hang out with her instead, etc. My daughter woke up to a string of 8 text messages this morning telling her what a terrible friend she is, how she doesn't care about M, etc. (similar things have happened in the past).

I don't know what to tell her. Drop the friend?

Why can’t she ever invite her to go join the group and why does she keep their friendship separate? Many friends introduce their friends to each other and they become friends as well and it becomes a larger group.

The other girls do not like M or want to spend time in her company.

This seems to me a red flag that there might be some mean girl behavior going on. Perhaps M is being targeted and isolated/shunned by other girls, which would explain why she is being so clingy with your daughter.

Again, as I mentioned in my post above, don't assume you have all of the information.

Just what I was thinking. Do you know M well? Is it really her?

I am going to guess that your are the parent of a bully and you are a clueless parent about it. I have seen moms like you, it is always the other kid, and not yours, the other kids should always make a ton of effort for your kid and your kid is an angel? Right? I know moms like you, you are the last to know that your kid is not bullied, she is the bully. You are so deep in deflective thinking you can't see what is right in front of you. Or you might have young kids and no clue about teen dynamics today. Either way, you are clueless.

Anonymous wrote:Ugh. My older kid got obsessive with friends, but she confided in me about it and we nipped it in the bud fast and expanded her horizons. She has also had friends get psycho with her too and we gave her strategies.

I would tell her to let her friend know she likes her, but the texts made her extremely uncomfortable. It is healthy to have all different friends and to spend time together AND time APART. She could even say "If you spend ALL your time with me, you will get sick of me!"

This. Help her with coping skills, tell her she doesn't have to feel guilty.

M sounds like a pain from your description - i.e. - cutting others down in public. I also think it might be helpful for your daughter to gently point that out, but know some "M's" over the years, she will likely go nuts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter's friend (we'll call her M) does not really have any friends outside their small friend group, whereas my daughter and the other girls in the group have other friends with whom they will sometimes hang out with. They are in 8th grade. Whenever my daughter does something without M, M goes pretty crazy and tells my daughter that if she were a real friend she'd invite M, how she should cancel the plans with the other girls and hang out with her instead, etc. My daughter woke up to a string of 8 text messages this morning telling her what a terrible friend she is, how she doesn't care about M, etc. (similar things have happened in the past).

I don't know what to tell her. Drop the friend?

Why can’t she ever invite her to go join the group and why does she keep their friendship separate? Many friends introduce their friends to each other and they become friends as well and it becomes a larger group.

The other girls do not like M or want to spend time in her company.

This seems to me a red flag that there might be some mean girl behavior going on. Perhaps M is being targeted and isolated/shunned by other girls, which would explain why she is being so clingy with your daughter.

Again, as I mentioned in my post above, don't assume you have all of the information.

Just what I was thinking. Do you know M well? Is it really her?

You read the OP right? You see how M is acting about OP’s dd doing something with other people. Blowing up her phone saying she’s not a real friend when M doesn’t get invited to something. So rude and dramatic. Why would you assume she’s likable in other situations? She probably treated other girls the way she’s treating OP’s dd, and they dropped her already. When people are rude and manipulative, they lose friends. Why would you push your dd to keep inviting someone so needy and clingy along to everything and disregard your dd’s feelings on the subject? It’s ok not to invite one person to every social interaction you have.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter's friend (we'll call her M) does not really have any friends outside their small friend group, whereas my daughter and the other girls in the group have other friends with whom they will sometimes hang out with. They are in 8th grade. Whenever my daughter does something without M, M goes pretty crazy and tells my daughter that if she were a real friend she'd invite M, how she should cancel the plans with the other girls and hang out with her instead, etc. My daughter woke up to a string of 8 text messages this morning telling her what a terrible friend she is, how she doesn't care about M, etc. (similar things have happened in the past).

I don't know what to tell her. Drop the friend?

Why can’t she ever invite her to go join the group and why does she keep their friendship separate? Many friends introduce their friends to each other and they become friends as well and it becomes a larger group.

The other girls do not like M or want to spend time in her company.

This seems to me a red flag that there might be some mean girl behavior going on. Perhaps M is being targeted and isolated/shunned by other girls, which would explain why she is being so clingy with your daughter.

Again, as I mentioned in my post above, don't assume you have all of the information.

Just what I was thinking. Do you know M well? Is it really her?

Anonymous wrote:I feel sorry for M but I also think that your DD shouldn't be burdened with this either.

In 8th grade, it might be a time for your DD to communicate about difficult things. Maybe she can text M back and simply say that she is a "real friend" but that she has other friends too and will sometimes hang out without M--and she won't be hurt or consider M not to be a friend if she does the same thing.

OP, again, just recommend to your DD that she communicate with M in a clear and nice way. If the problems continue, then your DD will should say that she has already explained this and if "M" doesn't give her some space, she's not going to want to hang out much anymore. If the problems continue, then your DD follows through by not returning calls, texts, and generally shutting down the friendship.

There's no need to be passive aggressive or label anyone as difficult or a bully. Your DD sets the boundary and if the boundary isn't respected, she backs off of the friendship.

My DD is dealing with something similar, you better get used to this OP. This is standard behavior among teen girls. It gets worse. Some kids have many friends and some don't. So, my DD is friendly to everyone, and has many groups, and then then some friends who don't have large groups get jealous. Your DD is not some kind of a field trip organizer that has to invite the every kid she knows and is friends with. Definition of bully by another pp is inaccurate. Today not sending a text to all and sundry is being a bully. Life is tough, get over it buttercup.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter's friend (we'll call her M) does not really have any friends outside their small friend group, whereas my daughter and the other girls in the group have other friends with whom they will sometimes hang out with. They are in 8th grade. Whenever my daughter does something without M, M goes pretty crazy and tells my daughter that if she were a real friend she'd invite M, how she should cancel the plans with the other girls and hang out with her instead, etc. My daughter woke up to a string of 8 text messages this morning telling her what a terrible friend she is, how she doesn't care about M, etc. (similar things have happened in the past).

I don't know what to tell her. Drop the friend?

Why can’t she ever invite her to go join the group and why does she keep their friendship separate? Many friends introduce their friends to each other and they become friends as well and it becomes a larger group.

You are kidding right? That is your advice to OP? My daughter has friends friends from the neighborhood, friends from school, friends from her sports, etc. When she hosts a sleepover with her soccer friends, it is just her soccer friends. Why does she have to go out of her way to invite a random friend that doesn't relate to the group? Now, if the OPs daughter was inviting everyone from their school group and now this girl, that would be mean. But I don't think she is doing anything wrong.

Anonymous wrote:I call bs. OP daughter is a bully. My daughter engaged in this sort of stuff a year ago with one girl. I dig down and insisted she be inclusive in large groups. A year later we got through this and she agrees she was pushing X out for really no good reason. Seems like every other month someone is getting pushed out. Parents to look at their own kids before they engage in blame.

No.