Anonymous
Post 01/09/2019 09:12     Subject: Re:Time Limit for Map-M Testing
It sounds like the county sent out a notice to MCPS schools to hurry it along and encourage shorter MAP test times. Can that please be confirmed by an MCPS employee who received this notice? What, exactly, did it say? My second grader was recently encouraged by her teacher to try to go faster on her upcoming MAP test (she takes a very long time and is also very high performing).
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2019 09:01     Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
I echo everyone else about MAP being untimed. My daughter always goes slow because she is prone to mistakes. She does very well and has been in magnets for ES & MS. My guess is that this is someone in your school, not the county (I hope). Make a case for your kid, OP w/ all the good info here. Good luck!
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2019 08:56     Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
MAP tests are untimed. Period. While the teacher is correct in counseling your child that they will need improvement for when there are timed tests, like the COGAT, Inview, and SAT, they absolutely should NOT be threatening to take away time from MAP. We had an IEP meeting with our 2nd grader's school last week and were asking if he would need an extra time accommodation for future tests, and we were told that it's irrelevant for the MAP tests because the kids can take as long as they need or want. We tell both of our children, including our 5th grader in CES, to take their time. If it's inconvenient for the school to allow the additional time, too freakin' bad for them. I'd send an e-mail to the principal complaining that the staff development teacher lied to your child and made false threats. Copy the teacher, and consider copying the school board.
Anonymous
Post 01/08/2019 22:33     Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing

Some seriously ignorant people on here. Perhaps they're MCPS shills

Anonymous
Post 01/08/2019 22:06     Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing



The entire point of the adaptive MAP test is that it is NOT timed, and that students can take the time they need, since they don't all have the same type or number of questions!!!



My children routinely take a long time to finish their MAP tests and score very highly. One of them has very low processing speed and uses extended time in *other* settings. It takes him days to finish a MAP test, and the others aren't waiting around for him - he misses out on instruction, etc, to finish his test. It is the ONLY opportunity he has to fully show what he is capable of doing because his extended time on other assignments is actually not enough.




Anonymous
Post 01/08/2019 21:59     Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
You don't seem to get it. Putting a time limit on the test makes the results essentially invalid and a big waste of money. Sometimes the test saves certain topics for the end. So it might tell you that Larlo is great at multiplication but can't do basic fractions but it could just be because Larlo was told just to skip through the last 10 questions. What good does this do anyone?

It would be so unethical if they are imposing time limits at wealthy schools and not at Title I or Focus schools.
Anonymous
Post 01/08/2019 21:51     Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The same message has been sent at my school. Apparently central office has told teachers that students are now supposed to finish the test in one sitting with a recommended time of about an hour. However there is nothing in writing indicating what teachers should do when the students do take longer. Our SDT told us at the beginning of the year but isn’t really enforcing any time limits.


This is the same as the middle school where i teach. In my experience, an hour is enough time for a typical student, but maybe 10% of students take more than an hour. I think what MCPS is trying to stop is these situations where kids are taking multiple class periods. I have several students each year who take more than two 90 minute blocks to take the test. That's 180 minutes of class time blown where typical students are bored out of their minds even if you give them engaging work because they aren't able to talk or have movement breaks. Then, the kids come in for lunch periods to finish which is fine with me, but contractually they can't ask teachers to proctor tests during their 25 minute lunch.

By the way, to the parent talking about extended time, there are no accommodations on the MAP-R. It's the only assessment we have where that is the case. So students who normally get read to, are provided notes/outlines, get extended time etc don't get those accommodations.

This. My kids would be among those.

Chill out people - this is a diagnostic test administered three times per year, not the SATs. There were several times over the years that one of my kids didn't get to finish the test because they took so long and didn't even finish in the extra lunch session. After that, the teachers didn't want my kid missing additional instructional time, and I'm glad they didn't. As long as they get the time to finish at least once per year (including any session that MCPS is going to use for magnet purposes), you'll have enough data to see that your child is progressing.
Anonymous
Post 01/08/2019 19:13     Subject: Re:Time Limit for Map-M Testing
Anonymous wrote:Why is it important for middle schoolers to take MAP-R or MAP-M seriously? Is it used for class placement? Unless it's for magnet testing or accelerated placement, I don't see the use of any kid sitting through days of testing.


Ok so take it up with your administration and tell them you are no value with performance testing. But what is unacceptable is if students at school x are getting less time on a required test while students at school y are performing better because they can take as much time as they need.
Anonymous
Post 01/08/2019 18:26     Subject: Re:Time Limit for Map-M Testing
Why is it important for middle schoolers to take MAP-R or MAP-M seriously? Is it used for class placement? Unless it's for magnet testing or accelerated placement, I don't see the use of any kid sitting through days of testing.
Anonymous
Post 01/08/2019 17:45     Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
Anonymous wrote:The same message has been sent at my school. Apparently central office has told teachers that students are now supposed to finish the test in one sitting with a recommended time of about an hour. However there is nothing in writing indicating what teachers should do when the students do take longer. Our SDT told us at the beginning of the year but isn’t really enforcing any time limits.


This is the same as the middle school where i teach. In my experience, an hour is enough time for a typical student, but maybe 10% of students take more than an hour. I think what MCPS is trying to stop is these situations where kids are taking multiple class periods. I have several students each year who take more than two 90 minute blocks to take the test. That's 180 minutes of class time blown where typical students are bored out of their minds even if you give them engaging work because they aren't able to talk or have movement breaks. Then, the kids come in for lunch periods to finish which is fine with me, but contractually they can't ask teachers to proctor tests during their 25 minute lunch.

By the way, to the parent talking about extended time, there are no accommodations on the MAP-R. It's the only assessment we have where that is the case. So students who normally get read to, are provided notes/outlines, get extended time etc don't get those accommodations.
Anonymous
Post 01/08/2019 16:48     Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We should push back as parents.

This is another example of how MCPS is penalizing high-achieving students. And for what? If this comes from Central Office, where they know very well what type of test this is, I bet it's to reduce the achievement gap!!!

Scandalous.


Before you go all nuclear, you might want to clarify in what way MCPS is "penalizing" your student by not giving the test correctly. If they are trying to not use up endless class time with individual test-taking, that has some value. If they are using those MAP scores as a significant factor in magnet selection/cohort analysis, then whether they are doing it correctly may matter. It may not "penalize" any students, it may lead to a needless data imperfection in the selection of 3rd and 5th graders for programs, it may still give the teacher the information they need that the student has mastered the content the teacher has been teaching. Anyway, I think anyone who is going to follow up on this with their school, should know what they mean by "penalizing high-achieving students." Because while it may result in inaccurate data, it's not entirely clear how that inaccurate data would "penalize" anyone.


What are you babbling about? MAP scores are predicated on the assumption that the students are being provided the tests untimed. If other students are taking the test without limits, and MCPS students have limits, they are being penalized relative to their peers.


What are they losing out on?

So it's ok to systematically penalize one population of students by providing them suboptimal test conditions that their peers are not subject to, because you think the test doesn't matter? The fact that MCPS takes the time out of the school day to test the kids means the test results are considered important.


I think it depends what the tests are used for. If the tests are used by the classroom teachers to assess concept mastery, then the ultimate score does not necessarily matter, and whether the child could have shown mastery of additional concepts that the teacher is not teaching/assessing at that time is kind of irrelevant. In other words, my child's first grade teacher does not really care if my child can do basic multiplication because she is not going to teach her multiplication. Once my child demonstrates mastery of the addition and subtraction problems on the MAP, it's not clear how showing she can also do multiplication makes any difference whatsoever to her classroom teacher or to the instruction she's provided. (I'm not saying I think this is great, but it's pretty clearly how MCPS operates).

On the other hand, if the test scores are being used to identify "top performers" or "outliers" or students not being adequately served by the standard curriculum because they have already mastered material well beyond their grade level, then it would certainly be relevant that they be allowed to finish the test. I don't think it's entirely clear how MCPS is using the tests. It's also possible that the tests are used for multiple purposes. Individuals who use the test for one purpose may not realize that other parts of the system are using the test for a different purpose, and that allowing students the time they need is important to the second purpose, even if not to the first.

I am simply saying that going in with questions - how are you using this? why are you doing it this way? doesn't the place that creates the test say it's supposed to be unlimited time? I understand you don't want to lose classroom time, but what about...? is generally a better strategy for obtaining a change in policy than "YOU ARE PENALIZING MY CHILD!" No, I can't really explain how it matters at all, or why a 5 point score difference is more important than 30 minutes of class time. But YOU ARE DOING YOUR JOB WRONG.


The test scores are used to identify top performers and to test mastery and to compare performance across classroom units and schools and districts. As such, conditions for test taking need to be uniform. It is NOT ok to penalize some kids by giving them only an hour while others can take far longer.
Anonymous
Post 01/08/2019 16:46     Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We should push back as parents.

This is another example of how MCPS is penalizing high-achieving students. And for what? If this comes from Central Office, where they know very well what type of test this is, I bet it's to reduce the achievement gap!!!

Scandalous.


Before you go all nuclear, you might want to clarify in what way MCPS is "penalizing" your student by not giving the test correctly. If they are trying to not use up endless class time with individual test-taking, that has some value. If they are using those MAP scores as a significant factor in magnet selection/cohort analysis, then whether they are doing it correctly may matter. It may not "penalize" any students, it may lead to a needless data imperfection in the selection of 3rd and 5th graders for programs, it may still give the teacher the information they need that the student has mastered the content the teacher has been teaching. Anyway, I think anyone who is going to follow up on this with their school, should know what they mean by "penalizing high-achieving students." Because while it may result in inaccurate data, it's not entirely clear how that inaccurate data would "penalize" anyone.


What are you babbling about? MAP scores are predicated on the assumption that the students are being provided the tests untimed. If other students are taking the test without limits, and MCPS students have limits, they are being penalized relative to their peers.


What are they losing out on?

So it's ok to systematically penalize one population of students by providing them suboptimal test conditions that their peers are not subject to, because you think the test doesn't matter? The fact that MCPS takes the time out of the school day to test the kids means the test results are considered important.


I think it depends what the tests are used for. If the tests are used by the classroom teachers to assess concept mastery, then the ultimate score does not necessarily matter, and whether the child could have shown mastery of additional concepts that the teacher is not teaching/assessing at that time is kind of irrelevant. In other words, my child's first grade teacher does not really care if my child can do basic multiplication because she is not going to teach her multiplication. Once my child demonstrates mastery of the addition and subtraction problems on the MAP, it's not clear how showing she can also do multiplication makes any difference whatsoever to her classroom teacher or to the instruction she's provided. (I'm not saying I think this is great, but it's pretty clearly how MCPS operates).

On the other hand, if the test scores are being used to identify "top performers" or "outliers" or students not being adequately served by the standard curriculum because they have already mastered material well beyond their grade level, then it would certainly be relevant that they be allowed to finish the test. I don't think it's entirely clear how MCPS is using the tests. It's also possible that the tests are used for multiple purposes. Individuals who use the test for one purpose may not realize that other parts of the system are using the test for a different purpose, and that allowing students the time they need is important to the second purpose, even if not to the first.

I am simply saying that going in with questions - how are you using this? why are you doing it this way? doesn't the place that creates the test say it's supposed to be unlimited time? I understand you don't want to lose classroom time, but what about...? is generally a better strategy for obtaining a change in policy than "YOU ARE PENALIZING MY CHILD!" No, I can't really explain how it matters at all, or why a 5 point score difference is more important than 30 minutes of class time. But YOU ARE DOING YOUR JOB WRONG.
Anonymous
Post 01/08/2019 16:30     Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We should push back as parents.

This is another example of how MCPS is penalizing high-achieving students. And for what? If this comes from Central Office, where they know very well what type of test this is, I bet it's to reduce the achievement gap!!!

Scandalous.


Before you go all nuclear, you might want to clarify in what way MCPS is "penalizing" your student by not giving the test correctly. If they are trying to not use up endless class time with individual test-taking, that has some value. If they are using those MAP scores as a significant factor in magnet selection/cohort analysis, then whether they are doing it correctly may matter. It may not "penalize" any students, it may lead to a needless data imperfection in the selection of 3rd and 5th graders for programs, it may still give the teacher the information they need that the student has mastered the content the teacher has been teaching. Anyway, I think anyone who is going to follow up on this with their school, should know what they mean by "penalizing high-achieving students." Because while it may result in inaccurate data, it's not entirely clear how that inaccurate data would "penalize" anyone.


What are you babbling about? MAP scores are predicated on the assumption that the students are being provided the tests untimed. If other students are taking the test without limits, and MCPS students have limits, they are being penalized relative to their peers.


What are they losing out on?

So it's ok to systematically penalize one population of students by providing them suboptimal test conditions that their peers are not subject to, because you think the test doesn't matter? The fact that MCPS takes the time out of the school day to test the kids means the test results are considered important.
Anonymous
Post 01/08/2019 16:28     Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We should push back as parents.

This is another example of how MCPS is penalizing high-achieving students. And for what? If this comes from Central Office, where they know very well what type of test this is, I bet it's to reduce the achievement gap!!!

Scandalous.


Before you go all nuclear, you might want to clarify in what way MCPS is "penalizing" your student by not giving the test correctly. If they are trying to not use up endless class time with individual test-taking, that has some value. If they are using those MAP scores as a significant factor in magnet selection/cohort analysis, then whether they are doing it correctly may matter. It may not "penalize" any students, it may lead to a needless data imperfection in the selection of 3rd and 5th graders for programs, it may still give the teacher the information they need that the student has mastered the content the teacher has been teaching. Anyway, I think anyone who is going to follow up on this with their school, should know what they mean by "penalizing high-achieving students." Because while it may result in inaccurate data, it's not entirely clear how that inaccurate data would "penalize" anyone.


What are you babbling about? MAP scores are predicated on the assumption that the students are being provided the tests untimed. If other students are taking the test without limits, and MCPS students have limits, they are being penalized relative to their peers.


What are they losing out on?
Anonymous
Post 01/08/2019 16:27     Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We should push back as parents.

This is another example of how MCPS is penalizing high-achieving students. And for what? If this comes from Central Office, where they know very well what type of test this is, I bet it's to reduce the achievement gap!!!

Scandalous.


Before you go all nuclear, you might want to clarify in what way MCPS is "penalizing" your student by not giving the test correctly. If they are trying to not use up endless class time with individual test-taking, that has some value. If they are using those MAP scores as a significant factor in magnet selection/cohort analysis, then whether they are doing it correctly may matter. It may not "penalize" any students, it may lead to a needless data imperfection in the selection of 3rd and 5th graders for programs, it may still give the teacher the information they need that the student has mastered the content the teacher has been teaching. Anyway, I think anyone who is going to follow up on this with their school, should know what they mean by "penalizing high-achieving students." Because while it may result in inaccurate data, it's not entirely clear how that inaccurate data would "penalize" anyone.


What are you babbling about? MAP scores are predicated on the assumption that the students are being provided the tests untimed. If other students are taking the test without limits, and MCPS students have limits, they are being penalized relative to their peers.