Thoreau is great, no regrets.

LJ is great too, but no one can dispute the FACT that it is actually 5 widgets less great.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS wanted to reduce LJ's enrollment, but they've reduced the white enrollment by 28% in just one year and the Asian enrollment by 28% in just one year, while the Hispanic enrollment declined by less than half that amount (13%). On average, white and Asian kids come from families with more resources and are more likely to participate in AAP. It doesn't bode well for LJ or its AAP program.

FCPS could have learned from its experience at Poe, where pulling kids from single-family neighborhoods out of the school accelerated flight from the school. Now they have an under-enrolled school that's over 70% FARMS - very different from Poe's student profile before all the boundary changes. FCPS apparently convinced itself that things would be different at LJ because it's an AAP center, but the data is telling a different story.

How do you know those demographic percentages? They aren't yet published on the school profiles.

Go to the school profile, click on the Demographics tab, and then click on the Student Ethnic and Gender tab. The information has been updated monthly through October 2018 and includes data going back to 2003-04.

I appreciate the link -- but here's the data at Jackson:

2017-18 2018-19

Asian 25.0% 23.8%
Black 7.6% 5.6%
Hisp 36.4% 40.7%
White 26.0% 24.4%


Seems to me that Jackson is pretty close to what it was before the rezoning. A small shift, but nothing dramatic. And yes, the rezoning is not fully implemented, but it is more than 50% implemented b/c about 75 rising 8th graders shifted as well as all the rezoned 7th graders. I guess all the wailing and gnashing of teeth was unfounded.

The other information was data as well. Stay tuned. We've seen this movie before at Poe, courtesy of the FCPS School Board.

yes, but it was meaningless and misleading. OF COURSE the actual number of ____ kids declined b/c they were moving kids out. That is the whole purpose of rezoning. To say that the total enrollment of Asian or White or whatever declined 28% is very deceptive. The whole school's enrollment DECLINED by roughly 25% -- b/c it was overcrowded. The PERCENTAGES of each group are actually pretty close to what they were before the rezoning. They are actually a lot closer than I expected them to be. If you lop off 300 kids, (out of 1400+) -- you are going to get "data" that enrollment decreased! But, percentages of each group --- not such a dramatic statement.

Right. The overall enrollment declined, which was the goal, and the decline in the white and Asian enrollments in percentage terms was over twice that of the decline of the Hispanic population, which on balance is poorer and less represented in AAP than the school as a whole. If you think that doesn’t have implications for LJ in the future, you again need to pay closer attention to what happened at Poe, where the School Board took what it viewed as the path of least resistance and moved higher-income areas to other schools (Lake Braddock and Frost), only to precipitate a greater enrollment decline than planned and a considerably higher FARMS rate.

The percentage of Asian kids went from 25% of the population (before rezoing) to 23.8% of the population after rezoning. The percentage of white kids at LJ went from 26% before the rezoning to 24.4% after the rezoning. What is your beef? (that's a rhetorical question).

Anyway.... OP wants to know about THOREAU. So, let's get back to that.

The zoning lady who can’t stop beating the dead horse doesn’t even have a kid at either middle school. I think that’s all we need to know. I have one at LJ and we really like it so far.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS wanted to reduce LJ's enrollment, but they've reduced the white enrollment by 28% in just one year and the Asian enrollment by 28% in just one year, while the Hispanic enrollment declined by less than half that amount (13%). On average, white and Asian kids come from families with more resources and are more likely to participate in AAP. It doesn't bode well for LJ or its AAP program.

FCPS could have learned from its experience at Poe, where pulling kids from single-family neighborhoods out of the school accelerated flight from the school. Now they have an under-enrolled school that's over 70% FARMS - very different from Poe's student profile before all the boundary changes. FCPS apparently convinced itself that things would be different at LJ because it's an AAP center, but the data is telling a different story.

How do you know those demographic percentages? They aren't yet published on the school profiles.

Go to the school profile, click on the Demographics tab, and then click on the Student Ethnic and Gender tab. The information has been updated monthly through October 2018 and includes data going back to 2003-04.

I appreciate the link -- but here's the data at Jackson:

2017-18 2018-19

Asian 25.0% 23.8%
Black 7.6% 5.6%
Hisp 36.4% 40.7%
White 26.0% 24.4%


Seems to me that Jackson is pretty close to what it was before the rezoning. A small shift, but nothing dramatic. And yes, the rezoning is not fully implemented, but it is more than 50% implemented b/c about 75 rising 8th graders shifted as well as all the rezoned 7th graders. I guess all the wailing and gnashing of teeth was unfounded.

The other information was data as well. Stay tuned. We've seen this movie before at Poe, courtesy of the FCPS School Board.

yes, but it was meaningless and misleading. OF COURSE the actual number of ____ kids declined b/c they were moving kids out. That is the whole purpose of rezoning. To say that the total enrollment of Asian or White or whatever declined 28% is very deceptive. The whole school's enrollment DECLINED by roughly 25% -- b/c it was overcrowded. The PERCENTAGES of each group are actually pretty close to what they were before the rezoning. They are actually a lot closer than I expected them to be. If you lop off 300 kids, (out of 1400+) -- you are going to get "data" that enrollment decreased! But, percentages of each group --- not such a dramatic statement.

Right. The overall enrollment declined, which was the goal, and the decline in the white and Asian enrollments in percentage terms was over twice that of the decline of the Hispanic population, which on balance is poorer and less represented in AAP than the school as a whole. If you think that doesn’t have implications for LJ in the future, you again need to pay closer attention to what happened at Poe, where the School Board took what it viewed as the path of least resistance and moved higher-income areas to other schools (Lake Braddock and Frost), only to precipitate a greater enrollment decline than planned and a considerably higher FARMS rate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS wanted to reduce LJ's enrollment, but they've reduced the white enrollment by 28% in just one year and the Asian enrollment by 28% in just one year, while the Hispanic enrollment declined by less than half that amount (13%). On average, white and Asian kids come from families with more resources and are more likely to participate in AAP. It doesn't bode well for LJ or its AAP program.

FCPS could have learned from its experience at Poe, where pulling kids from single-family neighborhoods out of the school accelerated flight from the school. Now they have an under-enrolled school that's over 70% FARMS - very different from Poe's student profile before all the boundary changes. FCPS apparently convinced itself that things would be different at LJ because it's an AAP center, but the data is telling a different story.

How do you know those demographic percentages? They aren't yet published on the school profiles.

Go to the school profile, click on the Demographics tab, and then click on the Student Ethnic and Gender tab. The information has been updated monthly through October 2018 and includes data going back to 2003-04.

I appreciate the link -- but here's the data at Jackson:

2017-18 2018-19

Asian 25.0% 23.8%
Black 7.6% 5.6%
Hisp 36.4% 40.7%
White 26.0% 24.4%


Seems to me that Jackson is pretty close to what it was before the rezoning. A small shift, but nothing dramatic. And yes, the rezoning is not fully implemented, but it is more than 50% implemented b/c about 75 rising 8th graders shifted as well as all the rezoned 7th graders. I guess all the wailing and gnashing of teeth was unfounded.

The other information was data as well. Stay tuned. We've seen this movie before at Poe, courtesy of the FCPS School Board.

yes, but it was meaningless and misleading. OF COURSE the actual number of ____ kids declined b/c they were moving kids out. That is the whole purpose of rezoning. To say that the total enrollment of Asian or White or whatever declined 28% is very deceptive. The whole school's enrollment DECLINED by roughly 25% -- b/c it was overcrowded. The PERCENTAGES of each group are actually pretty close to what they were before the rezoning. They are actually a lot closer than I expected them to be. If you lop off 300 kids, (out of 1400+) -- you are going to get "data" that enrollment decreased! But, percentages of each group --- not such a dramatic statement.

Am I calculating these wrong? The data you show says to me there is a 12% increase for Hispanics and 5-6% decrease for Whites and Asians. Without the FARM rates, it's too hard to tell how much poorer the school is getting. I'm not seeing a 28% or a 13% decrease.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS wanted to reduce LJ's enrollment, but they've reduced the white enrollment by 28% in just one year and the Asian enrollment by 28% in just one year, while the Hispanic enrollment declined by less than half that amount (13%). On average, white and Asian kids come from families with more resources and are more likely to participate in AAP. It doesn't bode well for LJ or its AAP program.

FCPS could have learned from its experience at Poe, where pulling kids from single-family neighborhoods out of the school accelerated flight from the school. Now they have an under-enrolled school that's over 70% FARMS - very different from Poe's student profile before all the boundary changes. FCPS apparently convinced itself that things would be different at LJ because it's an AAP center, but the data is telling a different story.

How do you know those demographic percentages? They aren't yet published on the school profiles.

Go to the school profile, click on the Demographics tab, and then click on the Student Ethnic and Gender tab. The information has been updated monthly through October 2018 and includes data going back to 2003-04.

I appreciate the link -- but here's the data at Jackson:

2017-18 2018-19

Asian 25.0% 23.8%
Black 7.6% 5.6%
Hisp 36.4% 40.7%
White 26.0% 24.4%


Seems to me that Jackson is pretty close to what it was before the rezoning. A small shift, but nothing dramatic. And yes, the rezoning is not fully implemented, but it is more than 50% implemented b/c about 75 rising 8th graders shifted as well as all the rezoned 7th graders. I guess all the wailing and gnashing of teeth was unfounded.

The other information was data as well. Stay tuned. We've seen this movie before at Poe, courtesy of the FCPS School Board.

Anonymous wrote:FCPS wanted to reduce LJ's enrollment, but they've reduced the white enrollment by 28% in just one year and the Asian enrollment by 28% in just one year, while the Hispanic enrollment declined by less than half that amount (13%). On average, white and Asian kids come from families with more resources and are more likely to participate in AAP. It doesn't bode well for LJ or its AAP program.

FCPS could have learned from its experience at Poe, where pulling kids from single-family neighborhoods out of the school accelerated flight from the school. Now they have an under-enrolled school that's over 70% FARMS - very different from Poe's student profile before all the boundary changes. FCPS apparently convinced itself that things would be different at LJ because it's an AAP center, but the data is telling a different story.

https://www.amazon.com/How-Lie-Statistics-Darrell-Huff/dp/0393310728

How appropriate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS wanted to reduce LJ's enrollment, but they've reduced the white enrollment by 28% in just one year and the Asian enrollment by 28% in just one year, while the Hispanic enrollment declined by less than half that amount (13%). On average, white and Asian kids come from families with more resources and are more likely to participate in AAP. It doesn't bode well for LJ or its AAP program.

FCPS could have learned from its experience at Poe, where pulling kids from single-family neighborhoods out of the school accelerated flight from the school. Now they have an under-enrolled school that's over 70% FARMS - very different from Poe's student profile before all the boundary changes. FCPS apparently convinced itself that things would be different at LJ because it's an AAP center, but the data is telling a different story.

How do you know those demographic percentages? They aren't yet published on the school profiles.

Go to the school profile, click on the Demographics tab, and then click on the Student Ethnic and Gender tab. The information has been updated monthly through October 2018 and includes data going back to 2003-04.

I appreciate the link -- but here's the data at Jackson:

2017-18 2018-19

Asian 25.0% 23.8%
Black 7.6% 5.6%
Hisp 36.4% 40.7%
White 26.0% 24.4%


Seems to me that Jackson is pretty close to what it was before the rezoning. A small shift, but nothing dramatic. And yes, the rezoning is not fully implemented, but it is more than 50% implemented b/c about 75 rising 8th graders shifted as well as all the rezoned 7th graders. I guess all the wailing and gnashing of teeth was unfounded.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS wanted to reduce LJ's enrollment, but they've reduced the white enrollment by 28% in just one year and the Asian enrollment by 28% in just one year, while the Hispanic enrollment declined by less than half that amount (13%). On average, white and Asian kids come from families with more resources and are more likely to participate in AAP. It doesn't bode well for LJ or its AAP program.

FCPS could have learned from its experience at Poe, where pulling kids from single-family neighborhoods out of the school accelerated flight from the school. Now they have an under-enrolled school that's over 70% FARMS - very different from Poe's student profile before all the boundary changes. FCPS apparently convinced itself that things would be different at LJ because it's an AAP center, but the data is telling a different story.

How do you know those demographic percentages? They aren't yet published on the school profiles.

Go to the school profile, click on the Demographics tab, and then click on the Student Ethnic and Gender tab. The information has been updated monthly through October 2018 and includes data going back to 2003-04.

We love Luther jackson. Our neighbor chose Thoreau, almost entirely based on social reasons. I’m not judging - just saying what she told me. She’s very disappointed with the academics. She’ll email me about once every few weeks to compare what my kid is doing in the same core classes as her child.

Anonymous wrote:Have two AAP kids who are at TMS, and in general I'm very happy.

I really love Mr. Azimi, the principle. He's awesome. A very good administrator, and I think aware of (and working on) some historic deficiencies.
My kids have had generally good to great teachers who love what they're teaching and are good teachers. They're supportive, and I think they're really into what they're teaching.
Brand new school buiding is a nice plus.

I don't know that it has been super challenging for them, so ask me again next year when they hit Madison. The knock on TMS has always been that its "too" supportive and not challenging enough, and then kids falter under the weight of expectations at Madison. I think there may be some of that that is still true.

I've heard that LJ is a more rigorous school, but also (and especially so since the redistricting) that the AAP kids really are isolated as a school within a school.

I can't speak for everyone (I am the PP with DC1 and DC2). But, I will say that my DC1 (who did honors only at TMS, not AAP) is not faltering under the weight of expectations at Madison. DC1 has 2 honors classes and 3 regular classes (including world lang). DC1 actually got higher grades in the honors classes last quarter at Madison. I think it is simply a matter of which subjects DC1 naturally excels in and which ones DC1 finds more challenging. It's not related to how DC1 was taught at TMS or what was required. The Madison teachers teach the kids what they need to know in each class. The kids are capable enough to do it (regardless of where they went to MS).... the question is whether the actually DO it. (teens! argggghhh!)

Anonymous wrote:FCPS wanted to reduce LJ's enrollment, but they've reduced the white enrollment by 28% in just one year and the Asian enrollment by 28% in just one year, while the Hispanic enrollment declined by less than half that amount (13%). On average, white and Asian kids come from families with more resources and are more likely to participate in AAP. It doesn't bode well for LJ or its AAP program.

FCPS could have learned from its experience at Poe, where pulling kids from single-family neighborhoods out of the school accelerated flight from the school. Now they have an under-enrolled school that's over 70% FARMS - very different from Poe's student profile before all the boundary changes. FCPS apparently convinced itself that things would be different at LJ because it's an AAP center, but the data is telling a different story.

You care about your property values. Disclose that.

Have two AAP kids who are at TMS, and in general I'm very happy.

I really love Mr. Azimi, the principle. He's awesome. A very good administrator, and I think aware of (and working on) some historic deficiencies.
My kids have had generally good to great teachers who love what they're teaching and are good teachers. They're supportive, and I think they're really into what they're teaching.
Brand new school buiding is a nice plus.

I don't know that it has been super challenging for them, so ask me again next year when they hit Madison. The knock on TMS has always been that its "too" supportive and not challenging enough, and then kids falter under the weight of expectations at Madison. I think there may be some of that that is still true.

I've heard that LJ is a more rigorous school, but also (and especially so since the redistricting) that the AAP kids really are isolated as a school within a school.

Wondering the same thing. FCPS dashboard is also not updated. It's already December. What is taking so long?