Anonymous
Post 12/02/2018 23:37     Subject: Re:Anyone have three kids and consider themselves ambitious/ in a competitive career?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have four kids and work PT as a physician at a major academic center. I still feel like I achieve things at work, although maybe not on the timeline I would if I didn’t have children.
But I switched to part time not long after I had my first. It didn’t have anything to do with having four kids. It seems to me that as long as you have childcare figured out, it doesn’t matter if you have one or six. I guess there is some extra cooking and laundry, but that’s easy enough to hire out.


OP here. I have a fairly ambitious/demanding career track, as does my partner. We both have flexible hours though so we can be home by 5, one (usually him) before, and work after the kids go to bed. We are both very hands on parents. We have two kids, I have seen both of their first steps, first words, and other milestones.

Here's the thing about three kids, logistically. The oldest is doing about six different activities, all of which he loves, and I like being able to be there. Youngest is too young for all that, but I hope by the time it's their turn the oldest will have narrowed things down a bit. I guess I have difficulty imagining how adding another kid would figure into that equation. I don't want my kid to spend their whole childhood with a nanny or au pair picking them up, driving them around, cooking with them. I know a young woman like that and she is closer to the person who raised her than to her mother. I feel like a lot of conversations about feelings and big conversations happen in the car, and as they get older I know that will be even more important.

It sounds like most people with two FT working parents and three kids have a lot of outside help. I'm ambivalent about that. If we could have three without stretching ourselves too thin, I might consider that -- we both don't have much family around, and I like the thought of the kids having each other. But it seems like each kid would have less parental attention.


So right now, you drive one kid around while your husband stays at home with the other kid or vice versa? And you are thinking that if you have a third, then you will both have to stay home and get an au pair to drive the kids? No. You will just take the baby to karate class and play peekaboo. I suppose it’s less attention, but does anyone really need to have their mother staring at them intently throughout soccer practice?
Now, you may need to hire out someone to do the laundry, but I don’t think you need a bunch of extra childcare for a third child. The reason you are seeing responses about getting a lot of childcare is because you asked about having an ambitious career as the default parent on a website where people routinely work 60+ hours a week. If you asked about households with two spouses who are home by 5pm every night, I think you would see different responses.


We do routinely work 60+ hours a week. Kids are in bed by 7 and we are back at it soon after.

As for the third, the problem is not necessarily with a baby or even a toddler. The problem is when one has this activity on one side of town and the other had something else and the third has another thing, add in increased social activities and travel for music/sports, x7 days a week. It's not just the activities, too. It's homework, practice at home, and emotional needs. I definitely think you will need at least one person per kid unless you want to leave them in aftercare or have a nanny/au pair doing most of the shuttling around.


Anonymous
Post 12/02/2018 23:25     Subject: Re:Anyone have three kids and consider themselves ambitious/ in a competitive career?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have four kids and work PT as a physician at a major academic center. I still feel like I achieve things at work, although maybe not on the timeline I would if I didn’t have children.
But I switched to part time not long after I had my first. It didn’t have anything to do with having four kids. It seems to me that as long as you have childcare figured out, it doesn’t matter if you have one or six. I guess there is some extra cooking and laundry, but that’s easy enough to hire out.


OP here. I have a fairly ambitious/demanding career track, as does my partner. We both have flexible hours though so we can be home by 5, one (usually him) before, and work after the kids go to bed. We are both very hands on parents. We have two kids, I have seen both of their first steps, first words, and other milestones.

Here's the thing about three kids, logistically. The oldest is doing about six different activities, all of which he loves, and I like being able to be there. Youngest is too young for all that, but I hope by the time it's their turn the oldest will have narrowed things down a bit. I guess I have difficulty imagining how adding another kid would figure into that equation. I don't want my kid to spend their whole childhood with a nanny or au pair picking them up, driving them around, cooking with them. I know a young woman like that and she is closer to the person who raised her than to her mother. I feel like a lot of conversations about feelings and big conversations happen in the car, and as they get older I know that will be even more important.

It sounds like most people with two FT working parents and three kids have a lot of outside help. I'm ambivalent about that. If we could have three without stretching ourselves too thin, I might consider that -- we both don't have much family around, and I like the thought of the kids having each other. But it seems like each kid would have less parental attention.


So right now, you drive one kid around while your husband stays at home with the other kid or vice versa? And you are thinking that if you have a third, then you will both have to stay home and get an au pair to drive the kids? No. You will just take the baby to karate class and play peekaboo. I suppose it’s less attention, but does anyone really need to have their mother staring at them intently throughout soccer practice?
Now, you may need to hire out someone to do the laundry, but I don’t think you need a bunch of extra childcare for a third child. The reason you are seeing responses about getting a lot of childcare is because you asked about having an ambitious career as the default parent on a website where people routinely work 60+ hours a week. If you asked about households with two spouses who are home by 5pm every night, I think you would see different responses.
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2018 22:56     Subject: Re:Anyone have three kids and consider themselves ambitious/ in a competitive career?
Anonymous wrote:I have four kids and work PT as a physician at a major academic center. I still feel like I achieve things at work, although maybe not on the timeline I would if I didn’t have children.
But I switched to part time not long after I had my first. It didn’t have anything to do with having four kids. It seems to me that as long as you have childcare figured out, it doesn’t matter if you have one or six. I guess there is some extra cooking and laundry, but that’s easy enough to hire out.


OP here. I have a fairly ambitious/demanding career track, as does my partner. We both have flexible hours though so we can be home by 5, one (usually him) before, and work after the kids go to bed. We are both very hands on parents. We have two kids, I have seen both of their first steps, first words, and other milestones.

Here's the thing about three kids, logistically. The oldest is doing about six different activities, all of which he loves, and I like being able to be there. Youngest is too young for all that, but I hope by the time it's their turn the oldest will have narrowed things down a bit. I guess I have difficulty imagining how adding another kid would figure into that equation. I don't want my kid to spend their whole childhood with a nanny or au pair picking them up, driving them around, cooking with them. I know a young woman like that and she is closer to the person who raised her than to her mother. I feel like a lot of conversations about feelings and big conversations happen in the car, and as they get older I know that will be even more important.

It sounds like most people with two FT working parents and three kids have a lot of outside help. I'm ambivalent about that. If we could have three without stretching ourselves too thin, I might consider that -- we both don't have much family around, and I like the thought of the kids having each other. But it seems like each kid would have less parental attention.
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2018 22:21     Subject: Re:Anyone have three kids and consider themselves ambitious/ in a competitive career?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have four kids and work PT as a physician at a major academic center. I still feel like I achieve things at work, although maybe not on the timeline I would if I didn’t have children.
But I switched to part time not long after I had my first. It didn’t have anything to do with having four kids. It seems to me that as long as you have childcare figured out, it doesn’t matter if you have one or six. I guess there is some extra cooking and laundry, but that’s easy enough to hire out.


Okay, what?! You don't honestly mean outsourcing all of your childcare... or maybe you do. Because actively parenting kids is hard work, and there is a huge difference when more kids are added. Each kid is an individual and then you parent the dynamics between multiple kids.

And to OP: I have three and purposely chose a less competitive path for my career. I'm still somewhat ambitious, but not to the extent that I'm willing to work all hours or stress myself half to death. Part of it has nothing to do with kids: I have a wicked exercise habit I've cultivated for years, and too much work gets in the way of that.


I am not quite sure what you are saying here. But yes...if you are the kind of parent who is willing to skip the big meeting to pick up kids at school, then it doesn’t matter (in terms of your career) whether there is one kid at that bus stop or five. And if you are the kind of parent who is aiming to be leading the big meeting and has hired a nanny to pick up kids at the bus stop, then it doesn’t matter if it’s one kid or five.
I am not trying to say that your home life isnt any different. Of course it is. But your work life doesn’t have to significantly change.
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2018 21:43     Subject: Anyone have three kids and consider themselves ambitious/ in a competitive career?
I don’t know what makes 3 the magic tipping point number. Is it that much harder than trying to do the same with “only” two? My DH is always all over me for not being more ambitious, not looking at how to make more money, etc etc. He fundamentally does not believe or understand that one of us has to have a job with flexibility and if I move to the kind of job he seems to envision for me, I can’t do it anymore. He has to clock every hour he works; I never clock any hours or even really log PTO. I can WFH with no notice to accommodate a sick kid, he either can’t or he has to make up the hours. I do almost every doctor appt, school event, you name it. And yet when I tell him this he just doesn’t buy it. We don’t have the kind of $$ to outsource everything so it’s so frustrating.
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2018 21:24     Subject: Re:Anyone have three kids and consider themselves ambitious/ in a competitive career?
Anonymous wrote:I have four kids and work PT as a physician at a major academic center. I still feel like I achieve things at work, although maybe not on the timeline I would if I didn’t have children.
But I switched to part time not long after I had my first. It didn’t have anything to do with having four kids. It seems to me that as long as you have childcare figured out, it doesn’t matter if you have one or six. I guess there is some extra cooking and laundry, but that’s easy enough to hire out.


Okay, what?! You don't honestly mean outsourcing all of your childcare... or maybe you do. Because actively parenting kids is hard work, and there is a huge difference when more kids are added. Each kid is an individual and then you parent the dynamics between multiple kids.

And to OP: I have three and purposely chose a less competitive path for my career. I'm still somewhat ambitious, but not to the extent that I'm willing to work all hours or stress myself half to death. Part of it has nothing to do with kids: I have a wicked exercise habit I've cultivated for years, and too much work gets in the way of that.
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2018 21:23     Subject: Anyone have three kids and consider themselves ambitious/ in a competitive career?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are only 24 hours in a day. Something has to give. I have three kids and work full-time but my job is somewhat flexible as long as it’s not during my 2 month busy period and even then I can take a couple planned days off. My DH works more hours than me but has no trouble working from home a few times a month. We have a full-time nanny.

I’m the kind of mom who likes to volunteer at school, throw birthday parties, attend karate and dance with the kids, cook and eat meals with my children. My DH is the sort of dad who wants to be at parent teacher conferences and pediatrician appointments with us. He is home for dinner and bedtime almost every night and just works again afterwards. We had three kids because we wanted to do these things. I personally can’t imagine not being an involved parent, and I do wonder why people keep having kids if they have no interest in the day to day parenting. 1 or 2 sure, but why 3+?


We both work in biglaw and we both do all the stuff you mention. What, do you think biglawyers don’t go to parent teacher conferences or plan their kids’ birthday parties? Honestly “big” jobs often have more hours flexibility. We chaperone field trips, have play dates with neighbors, attend dance/gymnastics not always but sometimes.


I was in big law, too. So I know exactly what it’s like. I most certainly would not have been able to make my billables and spend the time with my kids that I do now. Plus the stress would have definitely taken away from the enjoyment. Last minute client emergencies meant unexpected late nights and cancelled plans. No thanks.


My H is in biglaw and while it definitely has client demands, there are no nights at the office after 7 or 8. I know it is different for the corporate folks, but he is senior enough now that he leaves at a reasonable hour and works after the kids go to bed. He goes to parent conferences and chaperones field trips for each kid once a year (I am just on standby as a just in case).He travels for work, but I am not in a position that travels. I think 3+ kids is pretty common among his colleagues, but all of them have a spouse that does not travel. We definitely hire out many non-kid related tasks (cleaning/yard mantienence/cooking a few days a week/drycleaning door-to-door).


Yeah, so you have one parent that does not have a big job. It’s all a matter of degree. It’s great your husband chaperone’s a field trip a year. That would not be enough for me. In November alone, I volunteered at the book fair two days to be there for each of my elementary school kids on their days, helped at my preschooler’s class Thanksgiving feast, attended two parent teacher conferences, stayed home a day with a sick kid (this time he didn’t spread it to his siblings!), covered a sick day for the nanny, made a birthday treat to bring into school, and took one child to a well visit at the pediatrician. I personally would not have been able to handle all that while in big law. And I wasn’t willing to give up those parenting moments. Also, the only way I survived the sleep deprivation of #3 was to go to bed the same time as my older two so I wouldn’t be logging back in at night to make up work.
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2018 21:16     Subject: Anyone have three kids and consider themselves ambitious/ in a competitive career?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are only 24 hours in a day. Something has to give. I have three kids and work full-time but my job is somewhat flexible as long as it’s not during my 2 month busy period and even then I can take a couple planned days off. My DH works more hours than me but has no trouble working from home a few times a month. We have a full-time nanny.

I’m the kind of mom who likes to volunteer at school, throw birthday parties, attend karate and dance with the kids, cook and eat meals with my children. My DH is the sort of dad who wants to be at parent teacher conferences and pediatrician appointments with us. He is home for dinner and bedtime almost every night and just works again afterwards. We had three kids because we wanted to do these things. I personally can’t imagine not being an involved parent, and I do wonder why people keep having kids if they have no interest in the day to day parenting. 1 or 2 sure, but why 3+?


We both work in biglaw and we both do all the stuff you mention. What, do you think biglawyers don’t go to parent teacher conferences or plan their kids’ birthday parties? Honestly “big” jobs often have more hours flexibility. We chaperone field trips, have play dates with neighbors, attend dance/gymnastics not always but sometimes.


I was in big law, too. So I know exactly what it’s like. I most certainly would not have been able to make my billables and spend the time with my kids that I do now. Plus the stress would have definitely taken away from the enjoyment. Last minute client emergencies meant unexpected late nights and cancelled plans. No thanks.


My H is in biglaw and while it definitely has client demands, there are no nights at the office after 7 or 8. I know it is different for the corporate folks, but he is senior enough now that he leaves at a reasonable hour and works after the kids go to bed. He goes to parent conferences and chaperones field trips for each kid once a year (I am just on standby as a just in case).He travels for work, but I am not in a position that travels. I think 3+ kids is pretty common among his colleagues, but all of them have a spouse that does not travel. We definitely hire out many non-kid related tasks (cleaning/yard mantienence/cooking a few days a week/drycleaning door-to-door).


If he's getting home at 7:30-8:30, how much time does he really spend with the kids?
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2018 20:39     Subject: Anyone have three kids and consider themselves ambitious/ in a competitive career?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are only 24 hours in a day. Something has to give. I have three kids and work full-time but my job is somewhat flexible as long as it’s not during my 2 month busy period and even then I can take a couple planned days off. My DH works more hours than me but has no trouble working from home a few times a month. We have a full-time nanny.

I’m the kind of mom who likes to volunteer at school, throw birthday parties, attend karate and dance with the kids, cook and eat meals with my children. My DH is the sort of dad who wants to be at parent teacher conferences and pediatrician appointments with us. He is home for dinner and bedtime almost every night and just works again afterwards. We had three kids because we wanted to do these things. I personally can’t imagine not being an involved parent, and I do wonder why people keep having kids if they have no interest in the day to day parenting. 1 or 2 sure, but why 3+?


We both work in biglaw and we both do all the stuff you mention. What, do you think biglawyers don’t go to parent teacher conferences or plan their kids’ birthday parties? Honestly “big” jobs often have more hours flexibility. We chaperone field trips, have play dates with neighbors, attend dance/gymnastics not always but sometimes.


I was in big law, too. So I know exactly what it’s like. I most certainly would not have been able to make my billables and spend the time with my kids that I do now. Plus the stress would have definitely taken away from the enjoyment. Last minute client emergencies meant unexpected late nights and cancelled plans. No thanks.


My H is in biglaw and while it definitely has client demands, there are no nights at the office after 7 or 8. I know it is different for the corporate folks, but he is senior enough now that he leaves at a reasonable hour and works after the kids go to bed. He goes to parent conferences and chaperones field trips for each kid once a year (I am just on standby as a just in case).He travels for work, but I am not in a position that travels. I think 3+ kids is pretty common among his colleagues, but all of them have a spouse that does not travel. We definitely hire out many non-kid related tasks (cleaning/yard mantienence/cooking a few days a week/drycleaning door-to-door).
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2018 18:14     Subject: Anyone have three kids and consider themselves ambitious/ in a competitive career?
At work my pregnant SIL was questioned about staying home once her 4th arrived. She said, "I don't stay home now with 3, I'm not staying home with 4"
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2018 18:03     Subject: Re:Anyone have three kids and consider themselves ambitious/ in a competitive career?
I have four kids and work PT as a physician at a major academic center. I still feel like I achieve things at work, although maybe not on the timeline I would if I didn’t have children.
But I switched to part time not long after I had my first. It didn’t have anything to do with having four kids. It seems to me that as long as you have childcare figured out, it doesn’t matter if you have one or six. I guess there is some extra cooking and laundry, but that’s easy enough to hire out.
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2018 17:38     Subject: Anyone have three kids and consider themselves ambitious/ in a competitive career?
I know plenty of families with three kids, but of all of them I can only think of a handful where both parents work big jobs.

Two of them have older kids so the childcare logistics are easy because the kids can supervise themselves and in some cases even drive (themselves, their siblings). I don't know what they did when the kids were little.

One family has live-in family help, two nannies, and cleaning/cooking help. They do tons of family stuff and entertain often. I guess I could too if I had grandma shopping for the groceries and nanny handling the morning so I could leave at 7am and then logged back online from 7pm - 1am after eating dinner with my family. Would I want to? No.
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2018 17:04     Subject: Anyone have three kids and consider themselves ambitious/ in a competitive career?
In response to "with two nannies and tutors how many hours do you really spend with your kids everyday?" Ignoring the snark, thanks for your interest! Having job that requires special skills allowed me to negotiate working from home 3 days a week. I am with the kids...not putting dinner together or running errands but actually with the kids...starting between 5 and 6 p.m. daily. I have never missed a single music lesson for any of my three children. One or both parent attends every one of their sporting events. I am the room parent for one kid every year and volunteer every other week in the classroom. I have a lot of help as described so I can do all of those things.
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2018 16:57     Subject: Anyone have three kids and consider themselves ambitious/ in a competitive career?
A bunch of my colleagues travel for up to two weeks at a time and quite a few have three kids. Our jobs are very demanding, definitely not 9-5, but the organization is also relatively flexible when we need it. It's tough but I don't think it's proportionally tougher for those who have 3 kids vs 2. Cleaning and cooking are tasks I would focus on outsourcing. We drop off and pick up the kids ourselves, and I find that to be a great time to establish rituals and connect (listen to music or talk about various topics in depth).
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2018 16:30     Subject: Anyone have three kids and consider themselves ambitious/ in a competitive career?
Anonymous wrote:There are only 24 hours in a day. Something has to give. I have three kids and work full-time but my job is somewhat flexible as long as it’s not during my 2 month busy period and even then I can take a couple planned days off. My DH works more hours than me but has no trouble working from home a few times a month. We have a full-time nanny.

I’m the kind of mom who likes to volunteer at school, throw birthday parties, attend karate and dance with the kids, cook and eat meals with my children. My DH is the sort of dad who wants to be at parent teacher conferences and pediatrician appointments with us. He is home for dinner and bedtime almost every night and just works again afterwards. We had three kids because we wanted to do these things. I personally can’t imagine not being an involved parent, and I do wonder why people keep having kids if they have no interest in the day to day parenting. 1 or 2 sure, but why 3+?


3 kids is the trendy thing and its status.