Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter recently asked if we could look in to St. Andrew's for high school. We know a few families whose children are there now and a few that have graduated. Most of them loved it, commenting that it is a warm community and the teachers are wonderful. Multiple of them also commented that it was a pretty small school that did feel limited socially. They seem to have pretty good college placements, so there is that, but there also seem to be a large number of students that are seen as awkward and viewed as non-traditional learners. While I do love that there isn't a homogeneous crowd, I'm concerned that the relatively small size of the school mixed with the greater number of awkward kids might make it feel as if it is a special needs school and that my more traditional kid will be frustrated in that situation. I will say that when I mention she may apply there, about half of the people I tell are surprised because she is incredibly bright and they believe it to be for children with learning issues, similar to Burke or Field. Is this all completely off base?

There is so much wrong with this post.

It's one of the most offensive posts I've read on this forum, and that's saying a lot.

The only awkward thing is this post! I’m an SAES alum who went on to a top college and top graduate school with a meaningful career. SAES is a great mixture of kids and it was a warm, inclusive environment. There was and is a huge emphasis on service. The faculty is smart, engaged and care about the emotional/academic/ spiritual growth of the kids. Anyway, depending on what your values are your kids might love it. But seriously why is a traditional kids?!?!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Burke is not a school for kids with LDs. It can accommodate kids with some minor LDs, but no more than any other independent. I've had kids at both SAES and Burke and they are night and day academically and socially.
- Current Burke parent

Was your experience at St Andrews not good academically or socially? - Curious bcse I too am looking for HS.

Just really different, that's all. My DD who graduated SAES loved it, and my current HS kid at Burke loves Burke. Different approaches to learning, different social scene, etc. Burke is a very progressive school and follows that model whereas SAES is much more traditional. It's about fit. (And btw - Burke and Field are not equivalent.) So definitely do the tours and figure out what feels right for you and your child. Good luck.

Agree it is all about fit. For my DC, St Andrews felt like the more academically challenging school but I want to emphasize the word “felt” because he preferred a somewhat more traditional approach. I haven’t looked at Burke for about 5 years, but my sense is that St Andrews is not nearly as traditional as some posters believe and that Burke isn’t quite as progressive in upper grades as in middle school. Calling teachers bybtheir first or last name is a distinction that takes on less significance as students get older, and when you want to cover a subject like calculus or bio, there can be variation but there are limitations as to how much.

Pedagogically, Burke is absolutely more progressive than SAES. Being a progressive school goes far beyond what name you call your teachers. And I would say academically Burke is more difficult as there is more emphasis on critical thinking and the school emphasizes student ownership, rather than a top down, teacher-directed approach.

You seem very certain that you know what the SAES curriculum and teaching style are like. Do you have a child who attends SAES? Do you teach there? I'm just wondering what the basis is for your conclusion?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Burke is not a school for kids with LDs. It can accommodate kids with some minor LDs, but no more than any other independent. I've had kids at both SAES and Burke and they are night and day academically and socially.
- Current Burke parent

Was your experience at St Andrews not good academically or socially? - Curious bcse I too am looking for HS.

Just really different, that's all. My DD who graduated SAES loved it, and my current HS kid at Burke loves Burke. Different approaches to learning, different social scene, etc. Burke is a very progressive school and follows that model whereas SAES is much more traditional. It's about fit. (And btw - Burke and Field are not equivalent.) So definitely do the tours and figure out what feels right for you and your child. Good luck.

Agree it is all about fit. For my DC, St Andrews felt like the more academically challenging school but I want to emphasize the word “felt” because he preferred a somewhat more traditional approach. I haven’t looked at Burke for about 5 years, but my sense is that St Andrews is not nearly as traditional as some posters believe and that Burke isn’t quite as progressive in upper grades as in middle school. Calling teachers bybtheir first or last name is a distinction that takes on less significance as students get older, and when you want to cover a subject like calculus or bio, there can be variation but there are limitations as to how much.

Thanks for this eminently sensible, fair-minded and nuanced post. You are hereby banished from DCUM.

I have a dyslexic child and St Andrews is often mentioned as a school to look at if you decide to go private. My child ended up staying in public but aside from keyboard use I don't think any of his classmates thought of him as special needs and it would have been the same if he switched to private.

Anonymous wrote:Oy. OP, SAES is not a special needs school. Neither is Burke, and neither is Field.

All of these schools are schools at which the majority of students who have no diagnosed learning issue.

All of these schools are schools that are welcoming to students with MILD learning issues. Very mild. Kids with LDS that are not mild will have a tough time at these schools, none of which are equipped to support kids with serious issues.

We chose Burke over the other two, but loved SAES. Didn’t make sense for geographic reasons but if we had lived closer we might have picked it. We found Field too chaotic.

Burke does seems more traditional in many ways than we had expected, however. Overall we love it but I would definitely not say the classes or assignments seem substantially different from those at any of two dozen other schools.

Not to nitpick, but every single one of these three schools has kids whose learning differences are more than “very mild.” And all have kids with anxiety or other issues that don’t get an IEP in public but affect their school experience. Those kids may not be on your radar, but they are there.

Oy. OP, SAES is not a special needs school. Neither is Burke, and neither is Field.

All of these schools are schools at which the majority of students who have no diagnosed learning issue.

All of these schools are schools that are welcoming to students with MILD learning issues. Very mild. Kids with LDS that are not mild will have a tough time at these schools, none of which are equipped to support kids with serious issues.

We chose Burke over the other two, but loved SAES. Didn’t make sense for geographic reasons but if we had lived closer we might have picked it. We found Field too chaotic.

Burke does seems more traditional in many ways than we had expected, however. Overall we love it but I would definitely not say the classes or assignments seem substantially different from those at any of two dozen other schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Burke is not a school for kids with LDs. It can accommodate kids with some minor LDs, but no more than any other independent. I've had kids at both SAES and Burke and they are night and day academically and socially.
- Current Burke parent

Was your experience at St Andrews not good academically or socially? - Curious bcse I too am looking for HS.

Just really different, that's all. My DD who graduated SAES loved it, and my current HS kid at Burke loves Burke. Different approaches to learning, different social scene, etc. Burke is a very progressive school and follows that model whereas SAES is much more traditional. It's about fit. (And btw - Burke and Field are not equivalent.) So definitely do the tours and figure out what feels right for you and your child. Good luck.

Agree it is all about fit. For my DC, St Andrews felt like the more academically challenging school but I want to emphasize the word “felt” because he preferred a somewhat more traditional approach. I haven’t looked at Burke for about 5 years, but my sense is that St Andrews is not nearly as traditional as some posters believe and that Burke isn’t quite as progressive in upper grades as in middle school. Calling teachers bybtheir first or last name is a distinction that takes on less significance as students get older, and when you want to cover a subject like calculus or bio, there can be variation but there are limitations as to how much.

Pedagogically, Burke is absolutely more progressive than SAES. Being a progressive school goes far beyond what name you call your teachers. And I would say academically Burke is more difficult as there is more emphasis on critical thinking and the school emphasizes student ownership, rather than a top down, teacher-directed approach.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Burke is not a school for kids with LDs. It can accommodate kids with some minor LDs, but no more than any other independent. I've had kids at both SAES and Burke and they are night and day academically and socially.
- Current Burke parent

Was your experience at St Andrews not good academically or socially? - Curious bcse I too am looking for HS.

Just really different, that's all. My DD who graduated SAES loved it, and my current HS kid at Burke loves Burke. Different approaches to learning, different social scene, etc. Burke is a very progressive school and follows that model whereas SAES is much more traditional. It's about fit. (And btw - Burke and Field are not equivalent.) So definitely do the tours and figure out what feels right for you and your child. Good luck.

Agree it is all about fit. For my DC, St Andrews felt like the more academically challenging school but I want to emphasize the word “felt” because he preferred a somewhat more traditional approach. I haven’t looked at Burke for about 5 years, but my sense is that St Andrews is not nearly as traditional as some posters believe and that Burke isn’t quite as progressive in upper grades as in middle school. Calling teachers bybtheir first or last name is a distinction that takes on less significance as students get older, and when you want to cover a subject like calculus or bio, there can be variation but there are limitations as to how much.

If you're looking for a sense of the St. Andrew's community for your sociable child, check out some of the galleries on the school's website here: https://www.saes.org/page/photos

The pictures don't lie. It's a joyous community full of remarkably spirited and talented children and young adults!

My own "traditional learner" loves academic challenge and has set his sights for college very, very high. He also loves going to school each day.

We thought that the only downside was location, but it turns out not to have been an issue since the school's buses stop in our centrally located neighborhood. His commute turned out to be just 30 minutes. It took me longer to drive him to his DC school.

I'm guessing OP has done what many people do: someone asks a question about where their own child's profile (gifted, LD, ADHD, athletic, quirky, LGBTQ, particular race or nationality) would fit in or at least be welcome, and people name a school. This typically means, your child won't be shunned or counseled out or bored or unsuccessful just because of this aspect of their profile. However, some people take this to mean the whole school is only for children who fit that exact profile. This is never the case.

Poster @ 23.13 - great summary post, thanks.

Not sure how any parent can know how many kids or what proportion of kids have learning differences. It’s a weird claim to make.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter recently asked if we could look in to St. Andrew's for high school. We know a few families whose children are there now and a few that have graduated. Most of them loved it, commenting that it is a warm community and the teachers are wonderful. Multiple of them also commented that it was a pretty small school that did feel limited socially. They seem to have pretty good college placements, so there is that, but there also seem to be a large number of students that are seen as awkward and viewed as non-traditional learners. While I do love that there isn't a homogeneous crowd, I'm concerned that the relatively small size of the school mixed with the greater number of awkward kids might make it feel as if it is a special needs school and that my more traditional kid will be frustrated in that situation. I will say that when I mention she may apply there, about half of the people I tell are surprised because she is incredibly bright and they believe it to be for children with learning issues, similar to Burke or Field. Is this all completely off base?

There is so much wrong with this post.

It's one of the most offensive posts I've read on this forum, and that's saying a lot.

+100.

I am a parent of two recent SAES graduates. I don't find the post above offensive, but it is completely wrong and the author is ignorant of many facts. In fairness, he/she concluded by asking "Is this all completely off base?" And the answer to that question is yes -- it is all completely off base. I endorse what has been said positive about the school above in this thread. Beyond that, I will only comment on corrections/ additions. as follows:

1. It is a smaller school than GDS or Sidwell, but the gap is not what it used to be. Four years ago, there were only about 60-65 graduates. I understand the current 9th grade class is up to about 95 students. It has grown dramatically in recent years as a result of the improved economy and probably the improved physical facilities and a little marketing.

2. Even when it was smaller, it was not socially limiting unless a child was shy and stuck to only his class. Most kids have friends a grade above or below them as well because they are on sports teams, in the band, in school plays/musicals, in clubs, on trips to South Africa or Haiti or other places over spring break, at conferences with students from other private schools etc. St Andrews works best for kids who get involved in the school in one or more aspects outside of the classroom.

3. There are no more awkward kids in high school at St. Andrews than at most other privates, including schools like GDS and Maret. The vast majority of the kids with whom my children attended were overwhelmingly polite, caring kids with good social skills in the high school. And it is not dumb luck. The school fosters this in many ways -- some subtle, some not so subtle.

4. Most kids did not have diagnosed learning disabilities - by a wide margin -- but there are likely more such kids there than at a place like Sidwell. That's a good thing for several reasons. First, there are enough such kids that if your child does need extended time for exams at some point, he/she will usually have several classmates with him/her when taking an exam. Actually, let me correct that. That's true for certain standardized tests and maybe some finals, but the teachers usually try to make the exams such that they can be completed before the end of a class period by most students so that kids who need a little extra time do not need to be singled out in a different room. Some teachers also work with some kids in those situations to come after school and finish an exam if necessary. It's very individual and situation specific. Importantly, none of this in any way detracts from the educational experience of the other kids - it just doesn't.. See comment 5c below.

5. Now -- a few big things wrong with the post above:

a) the post implies that social awkwardness goes hand in hand with being a nontraditional learner. Maybe in some cases, but I have known many kids with great social skills who had mild learning disabilities. In fact, the latter may actually help give rise to the former. I have also know some brilliant kids -- and they are at all the privates and publics - who have awful social skills. The great trial lawyer David Boise is dyslexic -- he had to have other students read his books to him or record assignments on a tape recorder. I have seen him interviewed -- his social skills seem just find to go along with his brilliant mind.

b) having a learning disability does not necessarily mean you have a different learning style. Some learning disabilities are not that at all -- they are limitations in expressive language / expressive processing -- i.e., they are testing disabilities. A kid may be learning amazingly but just have trouble showing it by writing an essay in a limited time. Or.

c) finally, the above post implies that a child with some learning disability or different learning style - receptive or expressive -- contributes to the class in terms of diversity, but not as much academically. Unfortunately, that is the most erroneous and misleading implication of the quoted post above. When my kids were at St. Andrew's, I knew several parents well and my kids knew their classmates, so I knew some of the kids who got extra time or went to see a tutor, etc. And I am sure there were others I didn't know -- it was not a class distinction anyone cared about or talked about. But I know that in each of the years that my own kids graduated, one or more of the top academic students in the class had some sort of learning disability. One of those graduates is attending an ivy league college now and thriving. Another is already in a top 10 PhD STEM program. These kids made many contributions in high school -- to the quality of class discussions, sports teams, clubs, social life, etc. They were well liked by their classmates and teachers. No one should assume that their child will in any way be held back by another child just because he/she has a learning disability.
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3.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter recently asked if we could look in to St. Andrew's for high school. We know a few families whose children are there now and a few that have graduated. Most of them loved it, commenting that it is a warm community and the teachers are wonderful. Multiple of them also commented that it was a pretty small school that did feel limited socially. They seem to have pretty good college placements, so there is that, but there also seem to be a large number of students that are seen as awkward and viewed as non-traditional learners. While I do love that there isn't a homogeneous crowd, I'm concerned that the relatively small size of the school mixed with the greater number of awkward kids might make it feel as if it is a special needs school and that my more traditional kid will be frustrated in that situation. I will say that when I mention she may apply there, about half of the people I tell are surprised because she is incredibly bright and they believe it to be for children with learning issues, similar to Burke or Field. Is this all completely off base?

There is so much wrong with this post.

It's one of the most offensive posts I've read on this forum, and that's saying a lot.

+100.

Anonymous wrote:From what I've seen (and we've been part of 5 schools at this point), St. Andrew's has about the same percentage of kids with mild LDs as any of its most competitive peer schools (outside of those that specialize in LDs). I think that people keep confusing our teaching center for some kind of educational support center. It's not. It trains teachers how to implement research findings about the science of learning.

Agreed. I have a kid in the MS. For what it's worth, he finds the classrooms much less "annoying" than in public ES. If the OP is asking about kids that might disrupt class, it's not an issue. Great social vibe that I think is very evident the minute you walk on campus. What you see and feel when you visit is accurate. So, go visit and your DD will know whether it's a good fit or not.