Anonymous wrote:My very good math kid in 5th grade got a 275 in MAP -M (and that was not an aberration based on prior scores) and then got a 255 in 6th grade. Probably had a bad day, but kid also said that there were lots of questions that kid had no idea what they were talking about, very different from elementary MAP-M. I'm not worried, just adding some information.

DS just took MAP-M and experienced a similar drop, 270-something in 5th to 259 in 6th. His teacher told the class most kids experience a drop in 6th because the test has changed, and the 6+ MAP-M test is more challenging than the 2-5 MAP-M. His classmate went from a 282 to 240-something this year, his best friend dropped from 250 to 232. This is anecdotal of course, but seems possible.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just to let all those parents know who criticized the magnet selection not being fair as many high performing kids from CES centers did not get selected, raw scores were requested, data were shared, and law suits were threatened, MAP- M scores of most of selected kids range from 250-294. Math counts try outs are competitive and still have high flyers from sixth grade though the selection criteria of these sixth graders was based on cogat and not traditional way, science class is serious business with lots of hands raised to answer teacher’s questions on a specific topic discussion. I don’t see these kids being any less smart (than those who did not make it to the magnet and parents cried foul).
Just sharing my observations as I see similar threads popping up about this year’s selection to middle school magnets.

I have no doubt the kids are bright and enthusiastic, but 250 MAP scores are not high for TPMS. If you had said 270-294, I'd be impressed. I do think these kids will do fine, but there are definitely kids at least on this level excluded. And, what about the kids who aren't great test takers? I guess, my point is that MCPS 1) needs more seats overall and 2) made a mistake using only test and location. It just feels very arbitrary. Glad to hear the class dynamic is good. Don't have a kid in this game, my kids are old school TPMS magnet.

Agreed. 4th grader CES kid's mom report here: for the fall MAP-M just tested a few weeks ago, I heard quite a few 250+ scores from my DC's classmates, and my DC got 260 even at 2nd grade MAP-P and around that score thereafter for MAP-M (this time, 262). 294 is impressive, 250 for 6th grade MAP-M? Not impressive at all.

"Quite a few" is not a lot of kids. Not sure if kids are at the same CES but DD said she heard of 3-4 out of around 80 kids. Most scored in the 230s with many in the 220s.

My very good math kid in 5th grade got a 275 in MAP -M (and that was not an aberration based on prior scores) and then got a 255 in 6th grade. Probably had a bad day, but kid also said that there were lots of questions that kid had no idea what they were talking about, very different from elementary MAP-M. I'm not worried, just adding some information.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just to let all those parents know who criticized the magnet selection not being fair as many high performing kids from CES centers did not get selected, raw scores were requested, data were shared, and law suits were threatened, MAP- M scores of most of selected kids range from 250-294. Math counts try outs are competitive and still have high flyers from sixth grade though the selection criteria of these sixth graders was based on cogat and not traditional way, science class is serious business with lots of hands raised to answer teacher’s questions on a specific topic discussion. I don’t see these kids being any less smart (than those who did not make it to the magnet and parents cried foul).
Just sharing my observations as I see similar threads popping up about this year’s selection to middle school magnets.

I have no doubt the kids are bright and enthusiastic, but 250 MAP scores are not high for TPMS. If you had said 270-294, I'd be impressed. I do think these kids will do fine, but there are definitely kids at least on this level excluded. And, what about the kids who aren't great test takers? I guess, my point is that MCPS 1) needs more seats overall and 2) made a mistake using only test and location. It just feels very arbitrary. Glad to hear the class dynamic is good. Don't have a kid in this game, my kids are old school TPMS magnet.

Agreed. 4th grader CES kid's mom report here: for the fall MAP-M just tested a few weeks ago, I heard quite a few 250+ scores from my DC's classmates, and my DC got 260 even at 2nd grade MAP-P and around that score thereafter for MAP-M (this time, 262). 294 is impressive, 250 for 6th grade MAP-M? Not impressive at all.

I went back and checked for DD. She got a 250 in 4th grade, and she was not one of the strongest Math kids at her CES. The kids would talk about their scores, and she definitely knew she was on the low end (though, she's an amazing writer, so I'm not trying to sell her ability short!) 250 for a 6th grade MAP-M at a Magnet MS is definitely not that high.

I just went back and checked MAPs. As it so happened, my 5th grader got a 250. That was reported as a 96% for spring 5th grade. We didn't apply to (and wouldn't have gone to) the magnets, but that was a relevant data point to add. It does seem a little low for the magnets, but not outrageously so, especially if there were other factors considered.

Also, anotehr CES mom here, and I think it's a little odd that the PP knows what other kids' were getting on their MAPs. Your kid shouldn't be talking about this with other kids or with you. I have no idea what my kid got, and wouldn't want him telling me what others got.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just to let all those parents know who criticized the magnet selection not being fair as many high performing kids from CES centers did not get selected, raw scores were requested, data were shared, and law suits were threatened, MAP- M scores of most of selected kids range from 250-294. Math counts try outs are competitive and still have high flyers from sixth grade though the selection criteria of these sixth graders was based on cogat and not traditional way, science class is serious business with lots of hands raised to answer teacher’s questions on a specific topic discussion. I don’t see these kids being any less smart (than those who did not make it to the magnet and parents cried foul).
Just sharing my observations as I see similar threads popping up about this year’s selection to middle school magnets.

I have no doubt the kids are bright and enthusiastic, but 250 MAP scores are not high for TPMS. If you had said 270-294, I'd be impressed. I do think these kids will do fine, but there are definitely kids at least on this level excluded. And, what about the kids who aren't great test takers? I guess, my point is that MCPS 1) needs more seats overall and 2) made a mistake using only test and location. It just feels very arbitrary. Glad to hear the class dynamic is good. Don't have a kid in this game, my kids are old school TPMS magnet.

Agreed. 4th grader CES kid's mom report here: for the fall MAP-M just tested a few weeks ago, I heard quite a few 250+ scores from my DC's classmates, and my DC got 260 even at 2nd grade MAP-P and around that score thereafter for MAP-M (this time, 262). 294 is impressive, 250 for 6th grade MAP-M? Not impressive at all.

NP, public service announcement. MAP and Cogat scores above the 99th percentile may not be reliably distinguished. The tests are not designed to parse out differences at the tail ends. The test companies tell you this. So MCPS can't use apparent distinctions at the tail as determinitive of anything. So they use multiple factors. Ok continue.

OP, how did you get to know the range of scores? DC is at TPMS, no way you know EVERYONE's scores. The cutoff score to join the mathcount club for 6 graders is lower this year compared to last year. This, you can verify.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just to let all those parents know who criticized the magnet selection not being fair as many high performing kids from CES centers did not get selected, raw scores were requested, data were shared, and law suits were threatened, MAP- M scores of most of selected kids range from 250-294. Math counts try outs are competitive and still have high flyers from sixth grade though the selection criteria of these sixth graders was based on cogat and not traditional way, science class is serious business with lots of hands raised to answer teacher’s questions on a specific topic discussion. I don’t see these kids being any less smart (than those who did not make it to the magnet and parents cried foul).
Just sharing my observations as I see similar threads popping up about this year’s selection to middle school magnets.

May I ask how you know these scores from last year? Did the TPMS give it out?

I would like to know this also. How would anyone get score data for all the TPMS kids?

Anonymous wrote:OP, did MCPS share these MAP scores or did you personally ask everyone you know at TPMS?

Don't be so insecure. People on this board do not think your particular child is unworthy. There have always been far fewer spots than deserving children. Not to mention the program has never truly been about serving the smartest children. It was created to keep white students in the eastern downcounty schools. The selection process is now being revised so the program can be a tool to reduce the achievement gap.

My kids were tested 2 and 4 years ago and did not get in despite having Map-M scores that were in the high 270s. They also scored slightly higher than the median of those admitted on the entrance test (MCPS used to send the median scores on each section of the test of those admitted to the magnet). The process was not transparent then, and it is not transparent now.

There is a distinct difference between the magnet curriculum and home school curriculums. People feel like their kids could benefit from the magnet curriculum, but have no access to it despite having various test scores that label them advanced and/or gifted amongst their peers.

Your child was lucky and got a spot (luck has always been part of the process, not just ability). There are hundreds of additional kids who could benefit from a magnet program and have no access to it. This is why people are mad. MCPS should absolutely create more spots in the magnet programs (and create a program in the western part of downcounty). They won't, because, it is not going to help the achievement gap, and it will increase the demographic imbalance in these programs.

I agree with this completely! My kid is in the CES and we know for sure that she just partially got lucky. Lots of kids from the home ES who were just as qualified, but got Wait Listed.

Tons of kids in MoCo could benefit from a Magnet type program, but are denied access for seemingly random reasons. It's incredibly frustrating.

My kid is at a CES, and 250 is a pretty low score. Especially for Takoma Park, which is supposed to be a MATH/Comp magnet.

If we're talking about anecdotes, I'll throw in that the two kids who went back to their home school from our CES were both URMs.

Guess what? That's just a random anecdote. I don't make any decisions based on that. There are several URMs at the CES who are obviously more than qualified to be there.

The issue for most parents is that it used to be that the admission magnets were based on scores, and grades and proven academic ability from ES. Now, there's such heavy weight put on which home school you come from.

OP, did MCPS share these MAP scores or did you personally ask everyone you know at TPMS?

Don't be so insecure. People on this board do not think your particular child is unworthy. There have always been far fewer spots than deserving children. Not to mention the program has never truly been about serving the smartest children. It was created to keep white students in the eastern downcounty schools. The selection process is now being revised so the program can be a tool to reduce the achievement gap.

My kids were tested 2 and 4 years ago and did not get in despite having Map-M scores that were in the high 270s. They also scored slightly higher than the median of those admitted on the entrance test (MCPS used to send the median scores on each section of the test of those admitted to the magnet). The process was not transparent then, and it is not transparent now.

There is a distinct difference between the magnet curriculum and home school curriculums. People feel like their kids could benefit from the magnet curriculum, but have no access to it despite having various test scores that label them advanced and/or gifted amongst their peers.

Your child was lucky and got a spot (luck has always been part of the process, not just ability). There are hundreds of additional kids who could benefit from a magnet program and have no access to it. This is why people are mad. MCPS should absolutely create more spots in the magnet programs (and create a program in the western part of downcounty). They won't, because, it is not going to help the achievement gap, and it will increase the demographic imbalance in these programs.

Anonymous wrote:OP here,
Mine is current 6th grader from W feeder who got selected to TPMS with new selection criteria-very high Map M and Map R, 99s with high raw scores also. Did very well on the non graded beginner section.
Scored between 250-275 on MAP-M recently, the scores of other magnet kids whom we know (around 30 or so) also range from 250-295. That’s why used the word ‘most’. I really doubt anyone in the magnet class scored way lower.
The point of my post was not to start another debate but to let concerned parents know that the selection criteria was not so bogus as was assumed in the heated discussion in the spring of this year. All these kids, atleast whom I have met, are very engaged, hardworking and smart kids no matter which socio economic background or race they are from, and also I did not mean in any ways that those who did not get selected were less deserving.

I appreciate you sharing this information. I don't doubt the kids who are currently there are less stellar. With the exception of a few odd balls, I don't know anyone in real life who do not think the kids current there are somehow are not stellar. I think the general consensus is that there are so many bright students. We frankly know too many at our own CES, and it irks many that their child got dinged for their geographical location.

Anonymous wrote:Just to let all those parents know who criticized the magnet selection not being fair as many high performing kids from CES centers did not get selected, raw scores were requested, data were shared, and law suits were threatened, MAP- M scores of most of selected kids range from 250-294. Math counts try outs are competitive and still have high flyers from sixth grade though the selection criteria of these sixth graders was based on cogat and not traditional way, science class is serious business with lots of hands raised to answer teacher’s questions on a specific topic discussion. I don’t see these kids being any less smart (than those who did not make it to the magnet and parents cried foul).
Just sharing my observations as I see similar threads popping up about this year’s selection to middle school magnets.

I have no doubt the kids are bright and enthusiastic, but 250 MAP scores are not high for TPMS. If you had said 270-294, I'd be impressed. I do think these kids will do fine, but there are definitely kids at least on this level excluded. And, what about the kids who aren't great test takers? I guess, my point is that MCPS 1) needs more seats overall and 2) made a mistake using only test and location. It just feels very arbitrary. Glad to hear the class dynamic is good. Don't have a kid in this game, my kids are old school TPMS magnet.

As a former TPMS parent (and also a parent of a bright student at another middle school), I'd say to those parents who *didn't* get in but have kids with needs, you need to push, push, push your child's teachers and principals to accommodate them, and you should plan on extensions as much as possible at home. The difference between magnet math/science and honors math/science, even Alg 1 vs Alg 1, is night and day. The work that magnet students at TPMS are doing isn't necessarily harder, but it is way more interesting, hands-on and conducive to learning. All MCPS students should have the opportunities to learn beyond worksheets. I wish the TPMS magnet teachers would share their planners with other teachers; I think the whole county would benefit.