Anonymous wrote:It’s not always that simple. My 10 yo can calmly ask if we can discuss something if he truly does not agree and sometimes we can. Not everything is a hard line rule. It’s different than when the kids were little and the rules were don’t run into the road, use respectful language, wash your hands, pick up your toys, etc.

Anonymous wrote:It depends what you mean by expect.

I don’t expect my kids to never protest my rules. They are kids, it’s what they do.

I don’t expect my kids to follow rules that I don’t enforce 100% of the time. If I sometimes allow it and sometimes don’t, I can’t be surprised if they are confused and don’t follow.

I expect that children’s brains aren’t fully formed and they don’t have the experience an adult has, so they often aren’t capable of making good choices. It’s my job to make those choices for now and to teach them how to make those choices in the future.

I do expect that *I* will make appropriate rules with good reasoning behind them, and that I will enforce them at all times. I also expect of myself that if my child isn’t obeying, it is up to me to figure out why and what I can do to fix the problem.

A lot of parents probably think I’m overly strict. We have strict rules- you clean up after yourself immediately (toys, dishes, etc), you eat the food that is served and won’t get a snack later, we don’t do warnings (eg saying “stop doing XYZ” several times without actually enforcing it). But, I also use way more positive reinforcement than any other parent I know. I rarely have to use punishment. I’ve never had to raise my voice or use physical punishment. If my kids throw a fit, I don’t get emotional, I just stay cool and don’t give in.

I was a dog trainer for years before having kids, and I think people believe you either need to punish all the time (mean), or you need to let your dog/kid/whoever do whatever they want (nice), when you don’t need to do either.

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Anonymous wrote:Not blindly, no. But I expect them to comply when I make reasonable requests and to discuss it calmly and respectfully if they disagree.

^^^mine are older. When they were toddlers, yes I expected them to follow safety commands. Don’t touch that, don’t go in the street, etc.

How old were they when you decided it was ok for you to debate everything you told them, that they didn't agree with?

Not sure. They’ve always been advanced communicators. They are not rude and somehow they know the difference between a non negotiable (like a safety item) and weather or not I feel a certain TV show us age appropriate. I’m open to respectful discussion on some things. And if I’m not, I’ll say “this isn’t negotiable.”

What I'm getting at is this:
When your kid wants something, and you say "no", is it *really* a good idea to let your kid debate you?

People keep asking why so many boys/men think they can assault a girl/woman when she said "no". If our boys have been trained to ignore "no", what exactly should we expect?

If you want to debate things with your kid, please do NOT say "no", and then back off and open a debate.

Instead say, let's talk about it, or let me think about, or I'll discuss it with your father/mother.

If you want "No Means No, start acting like it and put your money where your mouth is. Mean what you say, or don't say it.

I can see how boys think "no means yes", if that's how they're been raised. Most boys know that if they nag/pound their parents long enough, they'll often get what they want. Allowing a debate after you've already said "no", is very dangerous territory.

Well, mine are girls to be precise. And yes I absolutely want them to feel they can question authority when it doesn’t feel right. Blind obedience got us the holocaust.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it mean if you expect your kids to obey you?

WE have rules for safety and YES, they obey them. You’re an asshole parent if you don’t have rules and the expectation that they be followed

Anonymous wrote:Is it mean if you expect your kids to obey you?

Anonymous wrote:I expect them too disobey me in age-typical ways; however, I teach them how to make good choices and supervise or set limits when things could go south.

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Anonymous wrote:Not blindly, no. But I expect them to comply when I make reasonable requests and to discuss it calmly and respectfully if they disagree.

^^^mine are older. When they were toddlers, yes I expected them to follow safety commands. Don’t touch that, don’t go in the street, etc.

How old were they when you decided it was ok for you to debate everything you told them, that they didn't agree with?

Not sure. They’ve always been advanced communicators. They are not rude and somehow they know the difference between a non negotiable (like a safety item) and weather or not I feel a certain TV show us age appropriate. I’m open to respectful discussion on some things. And if I’m not, I’ll say “this isn’t negotiable.”

What I'm getting at is this:
When your kid wants something, and you say "no", is it *really* a good idea to let your kid debate you?

People keep asking why so many boys/men think they can assault a girl/woman when she said "no". If our boys have been trained to ignore "no", what exactly should we expect?

If you want to debate things with your kid, please do NOT say "no", and then back off and open a debate.

Instead say, let's talk about it, or let me think about, or I'll discuss it with your father/mother.

If you want "No Means No, start acting like it and put your money where your mouth is. Mean what you say, or don't say it.

I can see how boys think "no means yes", if that's how they're been raised. Most boys know that if they nag/pound their parents long enough, they'll often get what they want. Allowing a debate after you've already said "no", is very dangerous territory.