I don't think the relevant metric for a 9 year old should be how tired she is at the end of practice if you are trying to encourage her to grow in the sport. At 9, coaches should be focused on technique and stroke refinement more than yardage and intervals. It sounds to me like your issue is not that your daughter is in the wrong practice group, but that your club's coaches (because of absences, etc.) aren't focused enough on making her a better swimmer now, so that she can be a faster swimmer later. Too much emphasis on yardage and intervals at this age leads to injury and burn-out. And no 9-year old should be placed in a practice group based on a 400 IM time. That's not even a recognized event for the 9-10 age group. I also agree that the more stroke clinics, private technique work you can do, the better, as long as your kid is enjoying it. I don't think you need permission from your club to do that. If you do; find a new club. Your club should care more about your kid's welfare and development than in employing its own coaches for private lessons.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Never tell clubs with whom you work on a side. Don’t ask for permission if it’s a private coach, it’s none of their business. Her best times will be achieved closer to March.

This, we did ask our coach for a suggestion and they gave us one but you don't need their permission.

Our parent code of conduct states: To obtain consent from the Head Coach prior to enrolling my child/swimmer in any additional competitive swim training during the **** ***** Club season.

I would read that to mean if you were looking to enroll her in another program that would be training her to compete with them as well. If this is a private coach who will only be training her to improve her skills, I would argue that it's not covered by this provision.

I agree with you. But it is common knowledge that it means we have to ask for permission to train privately with other coaches. And if we ask, they get pissed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard to tell why they don’t move her up. Sometimes one stroke would be really strong but other strokes are behind. Is she beating them in all events or in her best only stroke? Is her 100/200/400 IM the same?
Clubs usually train IM, distance free in higher groups and would look at 200IM, 200FR, 400FR to compare average level of stroke development and endurance. IM shows overal development; good free (learn to swim stroke) shows swimmer ability to train long hours and understand fundamentals, as freestyle balance, pull and kick later transition into other strokes. Distances like 50FL, 50BR wouldn’t be their decision making events

Her times are good, and she's strong in all strokes. She's beating everyone in the group that she's training with in everything. Finishing her sets well before everyone else, sitting there waiting for them to finish, waiting for the coach to give technique instructions for the next set, waiting for the coach to discipline the kids that aren't listening. She's not tired at the end of practice.

If this is the case, the coaches must be already discussing moving her up, if there are spots in the next level. If there are none, for you that would mean to train on a side a lot not to waste time and try to switch next season. In reality, many swimmers end up in such position while waiting for a spot at next group or other club.
I wouldn’t let a 9 yo to ask coaches directly about her promotion because there may be other factors involved, not related to her performance. The question is how her times compare to the next level - did you observe workouts at the next group, do you think she would be able to keep up ?

The concern is that there is a grey area there. Her main coach took a leave until at least December. They hired a parent/former swimmer to supervise DD's group until her coach comes back from leave. Their training is broken up amongst facilities, so DD's group is only at the same facility as the head coach 2 days a week. During that time, he is focused on training the seniors. I don't think he'd have much input from the sub coach about group assignments. I believe in this situation DD will fall through the cracks this season.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is going on second year of training with a winter swim team. DC worked hard all summer in clinics, camps and summer swim team and has improved substantially. It is still very early in the season but very obvious that DC is not being challenged by the pace and training of her group. She has a substitute coach atm because her regular coach is on personal leave until December. Is it frowned upon to contact the head coach and ask to have DC reassessed and placed in a group that is more challenging to her? Or is it better to keep quiet and wait until they make a move on their own. Would you do anything or leave it alone? If so, what would you say?

How old is she? Since it's her second year with the same team, if she's 9 or older, I'd consider having her being the one to talk to her coach. They know her, she knows them, she should be used to talking with her coaches about how she's doing. It would be natural for her to ask them what they need to see from her in order to move her up.

That is a great suggestion. She is 9, turning 10 in November. When I asked her about practice last night on the ride home, she did a great job of explaining her concerns and goals for herself. I said you did such a great job explaining that to me, I think you should tell the head coach exactly what you just said yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard to tell why they don’t move her up. Sometimes one stroke would be really strong but other strokes are behind. Is she beating them in all events or in her best only stroke? Is her 100/200/400 IM the same?
Clubs usually train IM, distance free in higher groups and would look at 200IM, 200FR, 400FR to compare average level of stroke development and endurance. IM shows overal development; good free (learn to swim stroke) shows swimmer ability to train long hours and understand fundamentals, as freestyle balance, pull and kick later transition into other strokes. Distances like 50FL, 50BR wouldn’t be their decision making events

Her times are good, and she's strong in all strokes. She's beating everyone in the group that she's training with in everything. Finishing her sets well before everyone else, sitting there waiting for them to finish, waiting for the coach to give technique instructions for the next set, waiting for the coach to discipline the kids that aren't listening. She's not tired at the end of practice.

If this is the case, the coaches must be already discussing moving her up, if there are spots in the next level. If there are none, for you that would mean to train on a side a lot not to waste time and try to switch next season. In reality, many swimmers end up in such position while waiting for a spot at next group or other club.
I wouldn’t let a 9 yo to ask coaches directly about her promotion because there may be other factors involved, not related to her performance. The question is how her times compare to the next level - did you observe workouts at the next group, do you think she would be able to keep up ?

Anonymous wrote:DC is going on second year of training with a winter swim team. DC worked hard all summer in clinics, camps and summer swim team and has improved substantially. It is still very early in the season but very obvious that DC is not being challenged by the pace and training of her group. She has a substitute coach atm because her regular coach is on personal leave until December. Is it frowned upon to contact the head coach and ask to have DC reassessed and placed in a group that is more challenging to her? Or is it better to keep quiet and wait until they make a move on their own. Would you do anything or leave it alone? If so, what would you say?

How old is she? Since it's her second year with the same team, if she's 9 or older, I'd consider having her being the one to talk to her coach. They know her, she knows them, she should be used to talking with her coaches about how she's doing. It would be natural for her to ask them what they need to see from her in order to move her up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Never tell clubs with whom you work on a side. Don’t ask for permission if it’s a private coach, it’s none of their business. Her best times will be achieved closer to March.

This, we did ask our coach for a suggestion and they gave us one but you don't need their permission.

Our parent code of conduct states: To obtain consent from the Head Coach prior to enrolling my child/swimmer in any additional competitive swim training during the **** ***** Club season.

I would read that to mean if you were looking to enroll her in another program that would be training her to compete with them as well. If this is a private coach who will only be training her to improve her skills, I would argue that it's not covered by this provision.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard to tell why they don’t move her up. Sometimes one stroke would be really strong but other strokes are behind. Is she beating them in all events or in her best only stroke? Is her 100/200/400 IM the same?
Clubs usually train IM, distance free in higher groups and would look at 200IM, 200FR, 400FR to compare average level of stroke development and endurance. IM shows overal development; good free (learn to swim stroke) shows swimmer ability to train long hours and understand fundamentals, as freestyle balance, pull and kick later transition into other strokes. Distances like 50FL, 50BR wouldn’t be their decision making events

Her times are good, and she's strong in all strokes. She's beating everyone in the group that she's training with in everything. Finishing her sets well before everyone else, sitting there waiting for them to finish, waiting for the coach to give technique instructions for the next set, waiting for the coach to discipline the kids that aren't listening. She's not tired at the end of practice.

That isn't good and it won't provide adequate training (especially if she is older). You don't want to have long rests built into a set. I would talk to the coach/team. If they resist the change because of their team logistics, then it isn't a very swimmer-oriented team. Perhaps consider moving her to another team that might place her appropriately.

OP -- I would ask...sound like she needs more of a challenge. How old is your DD?

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard to tell why they don’t move her up. Sometimes one stroke would be really strong but other strokes are behind. Is she beating them in all events or in her best only stroke? Is her 100/200/400 IM the same?
Clubs usually train IM, distance free in higher groups and would look at 200IM, 200FR, 400FR to compare average level of stroke development and endurance. IM shows overal development; good free (learn to swim stroke) shows swimmer ability to train long hours and understand fundamentals, as freestyle balance, pull and kick later transition into other strokes. Distances like 50FL, 50BR wouldn’t be their decision making events

Her times are good, and she's strong in all strokes. She's beating everyone in the group that she's training with in everything. Finishing her sets well before everyone else, sitting there waiting for them to finish, waiting for the coach to give technique instructions for the next set, waiting for the coach to discipline the kids that aren't listening. She's not tired at the end of practice.

It’s hard to tell why they don’t move her up. Sometimes one stroke would be really strong but other strokes are behind. Is she beating them in all events or in her best only stroke? Is her 100/200/400 IM the same?
Clubs usually train IM, distance free in higher groups and would look at 200IM, 200FR, 400FR to compare average level of stroke development and endurance. IM shows overal development; good free (learn to swim stroke) shows swimmer ability to train long hours and understand fundamentals, as freestyle balance, pull and kick later transition into other strokes. Distances like 50FL, 50BR wouldn’t be their decision making events

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Never tell clubs with whom you work on a side. Don’t ask for permission if it’s a private coach, it’s none of their business. Her best times will be achieved closer to March.

This, we did ask our coach for a suggestion and they gave us one but you don't need their permission.

Our parent code of conduct states: To obtain consent from the Head Coach prior to enrolling my child/swimmer in any additional competitive swim training during the **** ***** Club season.

Its gross overreaching because club wants you to take lessons from their coaches on a side. Its only prohibited by USA Swimming to compete on 2 teams at the same time but not train by yourself during your free time with an adult supervising the minor under 12 yo. Coaches train their own children outside clubs all the time. Our former club had the same clause, and every single fast swimmer had a parent-former swimmer or a private coach on a side. A mega club wouldn’t care anyway unless you make a silly step to ask for a permission.

Ok, thanks. I feel the same way. I wouldn’t offer the info voluntarily. I was leaning towards talking to the head coach first and asking for an assessment, and if he said no, then going ahead and doing something privately without his permission as I don’t really think it’s anyones business what DC does on her own time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which clinics and camps did you do? We did one and loved it but looking for more.

DC did private lessons with a coach from out of town. Did the Nike camp at Stanford during a summer vacation. Did the technique training camp within her club and was on the summer swim team at our country club. There are a bunch of great camps listed on the Fitter and Faster website.

How was the Nike Camps? I looked at them but we ended up at the Naval Academy, which was great.

She said it was a cool experience. She enjoyed it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends on a club. Don’t do it with mega teams - telling your child is not challenged can only make matters worse. They have too many kids to care and maybe just don’t have a spot at the next level yet. You might need just train on a side very hard till next swimming groups reassessment and ask for a meeting to get their feedback directly. Tell at the meeting how much your swimmer wants to be moved up, and how hard she’s ready to work at the next level, try to find out when a spot might become availdble. Don’t write. Also tell your daughter to try be always first in her lane, if practices are easy and she might get noticed when the coach is back.
If still nothing changes in the end of the swim season and your daughter has good times, do tryouts for other teams and see what she’s offered. It’s always helpful to know your child level from someone outside club

I’m not sure how the size of the club relates to others. There are about 250-300 kids total.
Totally understand what you’re saying about making it worse. DC does have an offer to work privately with an accomplished coach outside of her club doing private lessons. She worked with him during the summer and he has offered. Our club has a policy that states that DC needs permission from them to do so. I already know they will create drama over it.

I like the combination of advice of waiting until after the first meet and seeing her times. Also, asking for a meeting as opposed to the email I was going to write. All good ideas.

This makes no sense. Why do you need permission to do private lessons. Many kids we know are in private lessons. They probably strictly look at times for moving up a level. Find a new club if she is not happy.

I don’t think our club strictly looks at times. DC beat many kids in races all last year that were a level above her.

A level above her isn't her level - how about her level? If you aren't happy with the club, find a new one. If she's good it should not be an issue transfering.

Do you mean in her age group in races? or in her level that she trains with?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which clinics and camps did you do? We did one and loved it but looking for more.

DC did private lessons with a coach from out of town. Did the Nike camp at Stanford during a summer vacation. Did the technique training camp within her club and was on the summer swim team at our country club. There are a bunch of great camps listed on the Fitter and Faster website.

How was the Nike Camps? I looked at them but we ended up at the Naval Academy, which was great.