I remember cliques starting in 4th grade with 7th (especially) and 8th grade being the apex of mean girl behavior. High school was much better as people assembled according to interests (smart kids, jocks, stoners, etc.)

Slumber parties in late elementary were filled with slam books, which we all learned about from Judy Blume books.

Anonymous wrote:This is how we avoided this in my country, we only have elementary school, 1 to 8th grade and then 4 grades of HS. And you are stuck with same kids for 8 and then 4 years often. So, parents knew and would stop their kids, I grew up in that kind of country. If a parent heard even a whisper of their kids bullying other kids, they would whoop their …… We shaped up really fast. Then you sent you kid to the nerdiest grammar school you can find for HS and no worries. These schools with hundreds of kids are like prisons! No escape.

Eh, I went to a K through 8th grade school. There was plenty of mean girl bullying starting in 5th. 5th and 6th were the worst. Girls always ended up changing school that year due to bullying.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do boys experience the same dilemma or if there is something equivalent, when does it happen for the boys?

It is nowhere near as bad for boys as it is for girls.

My experience is different. My DS had it so much worse than my DD. Just pure nastiness from other boys and violence too.

Anonymous wrote:Do boys experience the same dilemma or if there is something equivalent, when does it happen for the boys?

I have seen none of this with current 7th grader.

We have found that the pointed mean-girl behavior was worse in middle school, but the cliquishness is worse in high school. My 9th grader was planning a birthday brunch for herself last year and ended up scrapping the whole thing because of the complicated social rules ("If I invite this girl, I have to invite her whole group, but I'm not part of that group so it would be presumptuous." and on and on.)

I think the cliques have become so much stronger than when I was in school because there boundaries (and changes to the boundaries) are so well defined. If you're in the group, then you're in the group chat (etc.) and if you have been expelled from the group, they remove you from the group chat...

This is how we avoided this in my country, we only have elementary school, 1 to 8th grade and then 4 grades of HS. And you are stuck with same kids for 8 and then 4 years often. So, parents knew and would stop their kids, I grew up in that kind of country. If a parent heard even a whisper of their kids bullying other kids, they would whoop their …… We shaped up really fast. Then you sent you kid to the nerdiest grammar school you can find for HS and no worries. These schools with hundreds of kids are like prisons! No escape.

5th through 8th grade are just hard for girls. My oldest is in 9th and just seems so much happier this year. She's finding her tribe of friends, and there are more opportunities in terms of clubs, band, etc.

Plus, the school work in high school will keep your kid more than busy. (It's only the second week of school, and my DD is doing homework from 6 to 11 p.m. on the weeknights.) HS is when the kids begin to separate big time on tracks based on their interests. She never sees the mean girls anymore; they aren't in her honors classes!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The age range from 12 to 15.

After that they have a sense of self so it is not so bad anymore unless the girl is crazy.

No it just continues into adulthood. Means girls become mean women.

No, most young teen girls are mean girls and most mean girls outgrow it.

Ask anyone who works with teen girls.

For every mom or girl who is co.plaining that those girls are "the mean girls" there is a mom or girl from those girls complaining that your daughter is the mean girls.

Whatever gets you through the day.

Um, well, I have all boys but I work with a lot of middle school and teen girls and their moms.

In the 15 years of dealing with them, I can say certainty that in around 90% or more of the cases of mean girl behavior and complaints, both sides of girls (and moms) were engaging in mean girl behavior to each other or others, and both sides were complaining about each other being mean girls to them.

11/12 through 14 is just awful and very few girls are innocent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The age range from 12 to 15.

After that they have a sense of self so it is not so bad anymore unless the girl is crazy.

No it just continues into adulthood. Means girls become mean women.

No, most young teen girls are mean girls and most mean girls outgrow it.

Ask anyone who works with teen girls.

For every mom or girl who is co.plaining that those girls are "the mean girls" there is a mom or girl from those girls complaining that your daughter is the mean girls.

Whatever gets you through the day.

I think MS is bad as well as the beginning of 9th grade (kind of a continuation of MS), but it does seem to mellow out by middle to end of 9th grade.

Middle school is the worst. By the end of high school, one of the middle school queen bees actually apologized to DD for being mean.

Anonymous wrote:Barring an unusually toxic high school environment, middle school is the worst. The kids are hitting puberty, they are all insecure and self-conscious, they are trying to find their niche, and they have no perspective. By high school, although there will probably still be some "mean girls," the other kids tend to have a better sense of self and more confidence, and there are more options for finding your place--theater, sports, music, art, etc.

This. MS and it's not even close - from a physiological perspective alone. Hormones, etc are going crazy in ages 11-13. That's prime time MS.

My recollection from my daughter's school years is that Middle School sees more overt bullying. High School is more of a pattern of freezing people out and engaging in whispering campaigns.

The worst years are 7th and 8th grade and then again when women have their first preschooler.

Anonymous wrote:Do boys experience the same dilemma or if there is something equivalent, when does it happen for the boys?

It is nowhere near as bad for boys as it is for girls.