Anonymous wrote:"6) NPL and CCL both have their faults but NPL is really struggling. Virginia Rush left this past year, NVSC the year before. PWSI, VSA, and both Richmond teams are looking to join CCL. The reality of the situation is that DA and ECNL have made both these leagues 3rd tier. Both can't continue to exist on the same level and NPL is rapidly falling behind. "

Someone posted this on another thread. Any truth to this? I would think it would be the end of VPL if true.

With DA/ECNL being the elite, the biggest/established clubs in the region would have their top teams in CCL and some (those w DA/ECNL) their second. Besides EDP D1 having some really good teams because their clubs are not big enough or not interested in being in a regional league I think CCL could become the 2nd tier after DA/ECNL. Not sure EDP is ready to be that besides for a few teams. NCSL is too disorganized, stuck in their old ways, to lure any of these club's top teams back into their league. As of last year they still required scores to be emailed to a volunteer which is pretty archaic at this point. Eventually the D1 teams in NCSL will leave for EDP which will lower the level of the league even more.

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RantingSoccerDad wrote:Let's say at the outset -- I have no doubt CCL started with good intentions. And Virginia NPL also served some purpose.

But now we have DA. And ECNL. A lot of the CCL clubs actually have teams in one or the other. (It's worse in Georgia -- on their message board, I referred to the new SCCL as "Southern Clubs' C-teams League," and I'm not really kidding.)

And now we have EDP, which offers one fluid system that includes club vs. club brackets as well as opportunities for teams that may be better than the rest of their clubs. The top tier replaces the old Region I leagues.

So with all of these leagues available, what's the purpose of CCL and Virginia NPL? Does the club vs. club concept make any sense now that you're talking about B teams? Why wall yourself off from other competition? And why not let your teams find the right level in a pro/rel system, either in EDP or NCSL or ODSL?

Good questions. My take:

No, the club v club concept does not make any sense now that you're talking about B teams.

The only purpose of CCL and NPL now is to wall themselves off from other competition. That way they can sell themselves as, if not "elite", at least better than [fill in the blank with some other, supposedly less prestigious league].

The reason they don't want their teams to simply find their right level in a pro/rel system is that then they will be found out. They can't claim to be in an "elite" league if they can't earn it on the field.

Put another way, it's about parent ego more than anything. It makes some feel better to say their kid's team plays in CCL or NPL than in NCSL. Clubs know this and capitalize on it to draw/retain players.

NP. I completely agree! We are in a D2 NCSL team and regularly beat CCL and NPL teams in tournaments and scrimmages. The opposing parents always look so confused leaving the field... Yes, DA and EDP are all the 'elite' needed. Then NCSL for the rest of us. Down to decent rec leagues like SFL and MSI.

EDP isn't really any more "elite" than NCSL outside of the top divisions, especially as they expand. I'd say the main difference is that one is local and the other isn't. They are both pro/rel, which is good.

Why do people need "elite" leagues? Is that just a way to feel better about your choice? Let's just settle on what works.

That's true, but I do think the EDP top divisions are at a higher level than NCSL D1, which makes them the de facto 2nd tier behind boys DA and girls DA/ECNL.

Yes, that is true. The very top divisions of EDP are better than NCSL top divisions, on average. As stated though that doesn't make EDP in whole elite. In general, it's DA as elite, then the rest, depending on whether teams want regional or local travel. If you want to be "elite" (whatever that means to you, and it's different for different people), then go DA.

Anonymous wrote:All are good points, but I think NCSL is unlikely to regain its former status. I think that EDP is a more likely destination for top programs than NCSL. EDP is an open league, with multiple divisions, promotion/relegation, flexible scheduling and a pathway to national level. NCSL does some of the same things. Just my two cents.

Anonymous wrote:I think the main benefit is for the coaches. Instead of driving all over dmv, sometimes with conflicting game times, they can coach multiple teams at one location each week.

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RantingSoccerDad wrote:Let's say at the outset -- I have no doubt CCL started with good intentions. And Virginia NPL also served some purpose.

But now we have DA. And ECNL. A lot of the CCL clubs actually have teams in one or the other. (It's worse in Georgia -- on their message board, I referred to the new SCCL as "Southern Clubs' C-teams League," and I'm not really kidding.)

And now we have EDP, which offers one fluid system that includes club vs. club brackets as well as opportunities for teams that may be better than the rest of their clubs. The top tier replaces the old Region I leagues.

So with all of these leagues available, what's the purpose of CCL and Virginia NPL? Does the club vs. club concept make any sense now that you're talking about B teams? Why wall yourself off from other competition? And why not let your teams find the right level in a pro/rel system, either in EDP or NCSL or ODSL?

Good questions. My take:

No, the club v club concept does not make any sense now that you're talking about B teams.

The only purpose of CCL and NPL now is to wall themselves off from other competition. That way they can sell themselves as, if not "elite", at least better than [fill in the blank with some other, supposedly less prestigious league].

The reason they don't want their teams to simply find their right level in a pro/rel system is that then they will be found out. They can't claim to be in an "elite" league if they can't earn it on the field.

Put another way, it's about parent ego more than anything. It makes some feel better to say their kid's team plays in CCL or NPL than in NCSL. Clubs know this and capitalize on it to draw/retain players.

NP. I completely agree! We are in a D2 NCSL team and regularly beat CCL and NPL teams in tournaments and scrimmages. The opposing parents always look so confused leaving the field... Yes, DA and EDP are all the 'elite' needed. Then NCSL for the rest of us. Down to decent rec leagues like SFL and MSI.

EDP isn't really any more "elite" than NCSL outside of the top divisions, especially as they expand. I'd say the main difference is that one is local and the other isn't. They are both pro/rel, which is good.

Why do people need "elite" leagues? Is that just a way to feel better about your choice? Let's just settle on what works.

That's true, but I do think the EDP top divisions are at a higher level than NCSL D1, which makes them the de facto 2nd tier behind boys DA and girls DA/ECNL.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:Let's say at the outset -- I have no doubt CCL started with good intentions. And Virginia NPL also served some purpose.

But now we have DA. And ECNL. A lot of the CCL clubs actually have teams in one or the other. (It's worse in Georgia -- on their message board, I referred to the new SCCL as "Southern Clubs' C-teams League," and I'm not really kidding.)

And now we have EDP, which offers one fluid system that includes club vs. club brackets as well as opportunities for teams that may be better than the rest of their clubs. The top tier replaces the old Region I leagues.

So with all of these leagues available, what's the purpose of CCL and Virginia NPL? Does the club vs. club concept make any sense now that you're talking about B teams? Why wall yourself off from other competition? And why not let your teams find the right level in a pro/rel system, either in EDP or NCSL or ODSL?

Good questions. My take:

No, the club v club concept does not make any sense now that you're talking about B teams.

The only purpose of CCL and NPL now is to wall themselves off from other competition. That way they can sell themselves as, if not "elite", at least better than [fill in the blank with some other, supposedly less prestigious league].

The reason they don't want their teams to simply find their right level in a pro/rel system is that then they will be found out. They can't claim to be in an "elite" league if they can't earn it on the field.

Put another way, it's about parent ego more than anything. It makes some feel better to say their kid's team plays in CCL or NPL than in NCSL. Clubs know this and capitalize on it to draw/retain players.

NP. I completely agree! We are in a D2 NCSL team and regularly beat CCL and NPL teams in tournaments and scrimmages. The opposing parents always look so confused leaving the field... Yes, DA and EDP are all the 'elite' needed. Then NCSL for the rest of us. Down to decent rec leagues like SFL and MSI.

EDP isn't really any more "elite" than NCSL outside of the top divisions, especially as they expand. I'd say the main difference is that one is local and the other isn't. They are both pro/rel, which is good.

Why do people need "elite" leagues? Is that just a way to feel better about your choice? Let's just settle on what works.

That's true, but I do think the EDP top divisions are at a higher level than NCSL D1, which makes them the de facto 2nd tier behind boys DA and girls DA/ECNL.

Leagues don't matter from U9-U13. Training matters more than games. Much more. Once you get to U14 and higher the games start to matter as well.

I looked at the top EDP division and the top NCSL for my U14 and the EDP appears tougher. It has the #1 team in the entire Country for our age group. And the #1 team in VA.

One question: how is SDOR '05 Elite playing in both EDP Div 1 and NCSL Div 1? Same team, same coach. The EDP games are Saturdays and NCSL Sunday--but I didn't think it was possible.

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Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:Let's say at the outset -- I have no doubt CCL started with good intentions. And Virginia NPL also served some purpose.

But now we have DA. And ECNL. A lot of the CCL clubs actually have teams in one or the other. (It's worse in Georgia -- on their message board, I referred to the new SCCL as "Southern Clubs' C-teams League," and I'm not really kidding.)

And now we have EDP, which offers one fluid system that includes club vs. club brackets as well as opportunities for teams that may be better than the rest of their clubs. The top tier replaces the old Region I leagues.

So with all of these leagues available, what's the purpose of CCL and Virginia NPL? Does the club vs. club concept make any sense now that you're talking about B teams? Why wall yourself off from other competition? And why not let your teams find the right level in a pro/rel system, either in EDP or NCSL or ODSL?

Good questions. My take:

No, the club v club concept does not make any sense now that you're talking about B teams.

The only purpose of CCL and NPL now is to wall themselves off from other competition. That way they can sell themselves as, if not "elite", at least better than [fill in the blank with some other, supposedly less prestigious league].

The reason they don't want their teams to simply find their right level in a pro/rel system is that then they will be found out. They can't claim to be in an "elite" league if they can't earn it on the field.

Put another way, it's about parent ego more than anything. It makes some feel better to say their kid's team plays in CCL or NPL than in NCSL. Clubs know this and capitalize on it to draw/retain players.

NP. I completely agree! We are in a D2 NCSL team and regularly beat CCL and NPL teams in tournaments and scrimmages. The opposing parents always look so confused leaving the field... Yes, DA and EDP are all the 'elite' needed. Then NCSL for the rest of us. Down to decent rec leagues like SFL and MSI.

EDP isn't really any more "elite" than NCSL outside of the top divisions, especially as they expand. I'd say the main difference is that one is local and the other isn't. They are both pro/rel, which is good.

Why do people need "elite" leagues? Is that just a way to feel better about your choice? Let's just settle on what works.

That's true, but I do think the EDP top divisions are at a higher level than NCSL D1, which makes them the de facto 2nd tier behind boys DA and girls DA/ECNL.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:Let's say at the outset -- I have no doubt CCL started with good intentions. And Virginia NPL also served some purpose.

But now we have DA. And ECNL. A lot of the CCL clubs actually have teams in one or the other. (It's worse in Georgia -- on their message board, I referred to the new SCCL as "Southern Clubs' C-teams League," and I'm not really kidding.)

And now we have EDP, which offers one fluid system that includes club vs. club brackets as well as opportunities for teams that may be better than the rest of their clubs. The top tier replaces the old Region I leagues.

So with all of these leagues available, what's the purpose of CCL and Virginia NPL? Does the club vs. club concept make any sense now that you're talking about B teams? Why wall yourself off from other competition? And why not let your teams find the right level in a pro/rel system, either in EDP or NCSL or ODSL?

Good questions. My take:

No, the club v club concept does not make any sense now that you're talking about B teams.

The only purpose of CCL and NPL now is to wall themselves off from other competition. That way they can sell themselves as, if not "elite", at least better than [fill in the blank with some other, supposedly less prestigious league].

The reason they don't want their teams to simply find their right level in a pro/rel system is that then they will be found out. They can't claim to be in an "elite" league if they can't earn it on the field.

Put another way, it's about parent ego more than anything. It makes some feel better to say their kid's team plays in CCL or NPL than in NCSL. Clubs know this and capitalize on it to draw/retain players.

NP. I completely agree! We are in a D2 NCSL team and regularly beat CCL and NPL teams in tournaments and scrimmages. The opposing parents always look so confused leaving the field... Yes, DA and EDP are all the 'elite' needed. Then NCSL for the rest of us. Down to decent rec leagues like SFL and MSI.

EDP isn't really any more "elite" than NCSL outside of the top divisions, especially as they expand. I'd say the main difference is that one is local and the other isn't. They are both pro/rel, which is good.

Why do people need "elite" leagues? Is that just a way to feel better about your choice? Let's just settle on what works.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:Let's say at the outset -- I have no doubt CCL started with good intentions. And Virginia NPL also served some purpose.

But now we have DA. And ECNL. A lot of the CCL clubs actually have teams in one or the other. (It's worse in Georgia -- on their message board, I referred to the new SCCL as "Southern Clubs' C-teams League," and I'm not really kidding.)

And now we have EDP, which offers one fluid system that includes club vs. club brackets as well as opportunities for teams that may be better than the rest of their clubs. The top tier replaces the old Region I leagues.

So with all of these leagues available, what's the purpose of CCL and Virginia NPL? Does the club vs. club concept make any sense now that you're talking about B teams? Why wall yourself off from other competition? And why not let your teams find the right level in a pro/rel system, either in EDP or NCSL or ODSL?

Good questions. My take:

No, the club v club concept does not make any sense now that you're talking about B teams.

The only purpose of CCL and NPL now is to wall themselves off from other competition. That way they can sell themselves as, if not "elite", at least better than [fill in the blank with some other, supposedly less prestigious league].

The reason they don't want their teams to simply find their right level in a pro/rel system is that then they will be found out. They can't claim to be in an "elite" league if they can't earn it on the field.

Put another way, it's about parent ego more than anything. It makes some feel better to say their kid's team plays in CCL or NPL than in NCSL. Clubs know this and capitalize on it to draw/retain players.

NP. I completely agree! We are in a D2 NCSL team and regularly beat CCL and NPL teams in tournaments and scrimmages. The opposing parents always look so confused leaving the field... Yes, DA and EDP are all the 'elite' needed. Then NCSL for the rest of us. Down to decent rec leagues like SFL and MSI.

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:Let's say at the outset -- I have no doubt CCL started with good intentions. And Virginia NPL also served some purpose.

But now we have DA. And ECNL. A lot of the CCL clubs actually have teams in one or the other. (It's worse in Georgia -- on their message board, I referred to the new SCCL as "Southern Clubs' C-teams League," and I'm not really kidding.)

And now we have EDP, which offers one fluid system that includes club vs. club brackets as well as opportunities for teams that may be better than the rest of their clubs. The top tier replaces the old Region I leagues.

So with all of these leagues available, what's the purpose of CCL and Virginia NPL? Does the club vs. club concept make any sense now that you're talking about B teams? Why wall yourself off from other competition? And why not let your teams find the right level in a pro/rel system, either in EDP or NCSL or ODSL?

Good questions. My take:

No, the club v club concept does not make any sense now that you're talking about B teams.

The only purpose of CCL and NPL now is to wall themselves off from other competition. That way they can sell themselves as, if not "elite", at least better than [fill in the blank with some other, supposedly less prestigious league].

The reason they don't want their teams to simply find their right level in a pro/rel system is that then they will be found out. They can't claim to be in an "elite" league if they can't earn it on the field.

Put another way, it's about parent ego more than anything. It makes some feel better to say their kid's team plays in CCL or NPL than in NCSL. Clubs know this and capitalize on it to draw/retain players.

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:Let's say at the outset -- I have no doubt CCL started with good intentions. And Virginia NPL also served some purpose.

But now we have DA. And ECNL. A lot of the CCL clubs actually have teams in one or the other. (It's worse in Georgia -- on their message board, I referred to the new SCCL as "Southern Clubs' C-teams League," and I'm not really kidding.)

And now we have EDP, which offers one fluid system that includes club vs. club brackets as well as opportunities for teams that may be better than the rest of their clubs. The top tier replaces the old Region I leagues.

So with all of these leagues available, what's the purpose of CCL and Virginia NPL? Does the club vs. club concept make any sense now that you're talking about B teams? Why wall yourself off from other competition? And why not let your teams find the right level in a pro/rel system, either in EDP or NCSL or ODSL?

Good questions. My take:

No, the club v club concept does not make any sense now that you're talking about B teams.

The only purpose of CCL and NPL now is to wall themselves off from other competition. That way they can sell themselves as, if not "elite", at least better than [fill in the blank with some other, supposedly less prestigious league].

NP. I completely agree! We are in a D2 NCSL team and regularly beat CCL and NPL teams in tournaments and scrimmages. The opposing parents always look so confused leaving the field... Yes, DA and EDP are all the 'elite' needed. Then NCSL for the rest of us. Down to decent rec leagues like SFL and MSI.

The reason they don't want their teams to simply find their right level in a pro/rel system is that then they will be found out. They can't claim to be in an "elite" league if they can't earn it on the field.

Put another way, it's about parent ego more than anything. It makes some feel better to say their kid's team plays in CCL or NPL than in NCSL. Clubs know this and capitalize on it to draw/retain players.

Anonymous wrote:NP who is a grown adult, and I care about youth soccer because I spend a significant amount of my free time and a not negligible amount of cash on my kids' youth soccer events. I also love the game and wish the system in the US was better at producing top players and significantly cheaper.

Back to the topic, I see no need for CCL or NPL in our area, and eventually no need for ECNL either. I think we need NCSL as the base/local travel league that covers the larger DC metro area. It would stay pro-rel at the ages above U10/U11, and be open to more clubs than it currently is. Kids on non-DA teams can move to EDP for region 1 and there would be a national league structured like the current one for the non DA teams who are at the top of each region. There could continue to be hyper local leagues like OBSL or ODSL for younger ages. It would also be ideal if more of this area had access to a strong, affordable rec system like MSI.

A lot of people claimed a lot of different things about CCL when it came to NoVa (and some well-intentioned people clearly believed the "superior development" claims, but its primarily purpose in this area has always been to allow clubs that didn't have boys' DA status to claim that they were offering an elite product for top kids in the hopes that unwary consumers would find that appealing. Having kids who played in the top divisions of NCSL before CCL came here and in CCL, I can tell you that NCSL (or another pro-rel league) is vastly more enjoyable and better for development than being stuck in CCL playing the same clubs and mismatched teams all the time.