Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Crazy

All subjective

Why do you care?

Because it bugs me when people go to Europe on vacation, have their kids in private, and then cry that they're middle class.

We're middle class in the sense that we don't have any family money or inherited wealth. So while we make a decent income (750k) and have some nice things that you mentioned (like the house in a "nice" suburb and the annual trips to Europe and the Caribbean and so on), we don't have the "things" that other private school parents have. Namely boats, second (or third) homes, exclusive country club memberships, etc.

Our kids aren't going to get a 60k car when they turn 16.

We'll pay for college but we're not going to be able to give them 2k a month in spending money. Things like that.

Compared to them, we are middle class.

Anonymous wrote:Eh I get it. It's all about your surroundings.

We earn 750k a year and my kids feel like the poor ones at their private school. They actually asked me if we were poor, lol. I just...I didn't even know what to say.

I tell my kids we’re poor.

Eh I get it. It's all about your surroundings.

We earn 750k a year and my kids feel like the poor ones at their private school. They actually asked me if we were poor, lol. I just...I didn't even know what to say.

Is it just DCUM or is it really people in this area who are so obsessed with defining class? I come from a country that people here often accuse as being extremely class conscious but I have never encountered more discussion about class than here. Why does any of this matter? And to the OP who said that she's tired of UMC people saying they are MC: avoid these people! Or just stop discussing what "class" they are with them!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone on another thread suggested that it takes $10 million a year to be upper class, implying that someone earning $5 million a year is merely upper-middle. This speaks to the skewed perspective of DCUM posters, and I thought it would interesting to inject a dose of reality. The following is how I would describe a few tyoical distinctions of an upper-middle lifestyle (that approximately 15% of the population enjoy) versus the middle-class lifestyle (that about 50% of the population lives).

Upper-middle class:

1) Housing: A 2500+ SF single-family house in the suburbs, or an upscale townhouse or condo (or luxury apartment) in an affluent suburbs or the city proper (think Berhesda, McLean, DC)
2) Vacations: a 2-week luxury cruise to the Baltics, a winter ski trip, or a few trips to the (owned) beach condo or house
3) Entertainment: dinner at the Capital Grille, Kennedy Center opera or ballet, club-level seats at the Nationals
4) Education: Public school in a better-rated district or private

Middle-class:

1) Housing: An older house of less than 2500 sf in the suburbs, a townhouse, or an apartment in the suburbs (think Gaithersburg, Silver Spring, Rockville)
2) Vacations: a 1-week cruise to the Caribbean, a 4-day trip trip to Disneyworld, or a week in a beach rental
3) Entertsinment: Dinner at Outback, the movies, regular,stadium seating at the ballpark
4) Education: Public school

Baseball is very middle class.

Generally, yes. But those expensive club seats aren't being scooped up by middle-class families - and they sell well. It's the upper.middle who don't blink at spending $400 or $500 to take the family to the game.

Sigh.

UMC don’t pay for those seats. They are company seats, and mom or dad take the kids when they can’t come up with a business purpose for them.

+1

I'm a minority and several of my family members have suites and many friends of my family. They are almost ALWAYS company suites or small business suites meant to entertain clients. One family member has one for his business and is considered blue collar, but has been all over the world and has even been to the Superbowl. Don't judge a book by it's cover.

stupid thread

I guess this is why we never ever stress about money. $700k HHI and other than private school we are all the MC list

Anonymous wrote:Upper-middle class:

1) Housing: 6000 SF Home in a gated community.
2) Vacations: Ski, Hawaii, Europe etc. 2 one week trips a year and 4 long weekends per year.
3) Entertainment: Kids sporting events, occasional professional sports events, play a lot of golf, hang out socially with other families, camp hike etc.
4) Education: Public in the best SD in the state.

-3 kids and single mom

so only 6000+ square feet is upper middle class???

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have done half the stuff in you describe in UMC list and half the things you describe in MC list. I'm poor.

If you've done half the stuff in the upper-middle class list, you're not poor. That's my point.

I make $30k a year or less, and have the last 20 years. My family has no significant money.
Kennedy center has many free concerts. Went to see and listen to the most played living classical musician in the world for free. Baltic cruise? I grew up there and go back often. Don't care to be stuck on the boat, but I've been to Helsinki, Stockholm, Tallinn, Copenhagen, St. Petersburg (Leningrad back then), but also Paris 2x and Amsterdam 2x. Ski trip? I've taken it to the Baltics, but my poor Baltic friends take theirs to Austria or Switzerland. Doesn't cost as much as you think.
Public education all the way that offered 7 languages.
Beach condo or a house? No to that. Too much of a drag, happy to stay in a hotel in PR, Miami 5x, Key West 2x. Love Key West architecture., and Hemingway's house ofcourse.
Nationals? Only had fun once I started drinking. Not going anymore.
I've been to fancy steak houses but not going back any time soon. Used to be Schula's, have been to Morton's and Chris Ruth's.

MC:
Apartment in the city?
Was going to take a short trip to the Bahamas, but again, don't want to be stuck on a boat. Disney? I lost count, but 3 times I think and several days at the time. Outback? Been there 3 times in 20 years.
Public education all the way.

You left out several things that might point to MC or Upper middle class elsewhere in the world. Traveling a lot- not just beaches and mountains, but different continents, speaking 3-5 languages, knowing how to ride a horse. I've been riding since I was 4.

All this can be done with a lot less money than you think. Don't have to be MC, but you have to have a plan. Check your skewed perspective. My much poorer European friends have done and seen a lot more than my much richer American friends. Europeans have been to South America, Japan, UAE, Malaysia, Singapore, Australia, not to mention everywhere in Europe and Northern Africa.
$30k is a lot of money when you come from making $7k a year.
It's not how much you make, but how you spend it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Crazy

All subjective

Why do you care?

Because it bugs me when people go to Europe on vacation, have their kids in private, and then cry that they're middle class.

It bugs you? Why?? Live YOUR life!!

Anonymous wrote:Is being an actual sports fan MC? DH is a sports fan and given prior attachments to teams in his state of origin, baseball is our best otion here. We pay for season tickets at the same price point as club seats plus parking. We take our kids. Maybe we have MC sensibilities with an UMC income? Whatever, I feel lucky we can live in the city with good schools and commute and can do great activities with our family. We would like to do two week international trips but cannot afford with the other things we choose to do. I think UMC is having the income to be able to make choices.

A lot of it has to do with choice of sports. I'd say following golf and tennis is more UMC, and football and baseball (with exceptions) attracts more middle class. Bowling....lower, for sure.

Is being an actual sports fan MC? DH is a sports fan and given prior attachments to teams in his state of origin, baseball is our best otion here. We pay for season tickets at the same price point as club seats plus parking. We take our kids. Maybe we have MC sensibilities with an UMC income? Whatever, I feel lucky we can live in the city with good schools and commute and can do great activities with our family. We would like to do two week international trips but cannot afford with the other things we choose to do. I think UMC is having the income to be able to make choices.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone on another thread suggested that it takes $10 million a year to be upper class, implying that someone earning $5 million a year is merely upper-middle. This speaks to the skewed perspective of DCUM posters, and I thought it would interesting to inject a dose of reality. The following is how I would describe a few tyoical distinctions of an upper-middle lifestyle (that approximately 15% of the population enjoy) versus the middle-class lifestyle (that about 50% of the population lives).

Upper-middle class:

1) Housing: A 2500+ SF single-family house in the suburbs, or an upscale townhouse or condo (or luxury apartment) in an affluent suburbs or the city proper (think Berhesda, McLean, DC)
2) Vacations: a 2-week luxury cruise to the Baltics, a winter ski trip, or a few trips to the (owned) beach condo or house
3) Entertainment: dinner at the Capital Grille, Kennedy Center opera or ballet, club-level seats at the Nationals
4) Education: Public school in a better-rated district or private

Middle-class:

1) Housing: An older house of less than 2500 sf in the suburbs, a townhouse, or an apartment in the suburbs (think Gaithersburg, Silver Spring, Rockville)
2) Vacations: a 1-week cruise to the Caribbean, a 4-day trip trip to Disneyworld, or a week in a beach rental
3) Entertsinment: Dinner at Outback, the movies, regular,stadium seating at the ballpark
4) Education: Public school

Baseball is very middle class.

Generally, yes. But those expensive club seats aren't being scooped up by middle-class families - and they sell well. It's the upper.middle who don't blink at spending $400 or $500 to take the family to the game.

Sigh.

UMC don’t pay for those seats. They are company seats, and mom or dad take the kids when they can’t come up with a business purpose for them.

Depends on what you're thinking of. I said "club-level." NOT box seats. Believe me, families pay for the club seats so they have quick access to air conditioning, eating in comfort (see: AC), and just generally better viewing.

It’s pretty middle class to pay out of pocket for baseball.

Snob.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone on another thread suggested that it takes $10 million a year to be upper class, implying that someone earning $5 million a year is merely upper-middle. This speaks to the skewed perspective of DCUM posters, and I thought it would interesting to inject a dose of reality. The following is how I would describe a few tyoical distinctions of an upper-middle lifestyle (that approximately 15% of the population enjoy) versus the middle-class lifestyle (that about 50% of the population lives).

Upper-middle class:

1) Housing: A 2500+ SF single-family house in the suburbs, or an upscale townhouse or condo (or luxury apartment) in an affluent suburbs or the city proper (think Berhesda, McLean, DC)
2) Vacations: a 2-week luxury cruise to the Baltics, a winter ski trip, or a few trips to the (owned) beach condo or house
3) Entertainment: dinner at the Capital Grille, Kennedy Center opera or ballet, club-level seats at the Nationals
4) Education: Public school in a better-rated district or private

Middle-class:

1) Housing: An older house of less than 2500 sf in the suburbs, a townhouse, or an apartment in the suburbs (think Gaithersburg, Silver Spring, Rockville)
2) Vacations: a 1-week cruise to the Caribbean, a 4-day trip trip to Disneyworld, or a week in a beach rental
3) Entertsinment: Dinner at Outback, the movies, regular,stadium seating at the ballpark
4) Education: Public school

Baseball is very middle class.

Generally, yes. But those expensive club seats aren't being scooped up by middle-class families - and they sell well. It's the upper.middle who don't blink at spending $400 or $500 to take the family to the game.

Sigh.

UMC don’t pay for those seats. They are company seats, and mom or dad take the kids when they can’t come up with a business purpose for them.

Depends on what you're thinking of. I said "club-level." NOT box seats. Believe me, families pay for the club seats so they have quick access to air conditioning, eating in comfort (see: AC), and just generally better viewing.

It’s pretty middle class to pay out of pocket for baseball.

Upper-middle class:

1) Housing: 6000 SF Home in a gated community.
2) Vacations: Ski, Hawaii, Europe etc. 2 one week trips a year and 4 long weekends per year.
3) Entertainment: Kids sporting events, occasional professional sports events, play a lot of golf, hang out socially with other families, camp hike etc.
4) Education: Public in the best SD in the state.

-3 kids and single mom