Anonymous wrote:Thanks. Still not clear to me that Ajax has so many "full-time" paid scouts, but agree that US soccer could allocate more resources to scouting.
DA still seems a good idea to me in terms of giving an opportunity to good players to play against each other. All European countries have clear hierarchies in terms of youth leagues. When you play there, you have a decent idea of your level.

Yes, question Ajax, but not USSF with its 11 scouts for 50 states...

Thanks. Still not clear to me that Ajax has so many "full-time" paid scouts, but agree that US soccer could allocate more resources to scouting.
DA still seems a good idea to me in terms of giving an opportunity to good players to play against each other. All European countries have clear hierarchies in terms of youth leagues. When you play there, you have a decent idea of your level.

Anonymous wrote:55 full-time scouts, this sounds like a lot, unless you speak about volunteer/unpaid scouts.
Could you please provide the reference to this estimate?

It is 50 scouts to cover the Netherlands and 5 more for Europe. Plus, they have hundreds of volunteer scouts.

http://worldsoccertalk.com/2013/04/13/afc-ajax-the-youth-system-every-club-should-aspire-to-have/

55 full-time scouts, this sounds like a lot, unless you speak about volunteer/unpaid scouts.
Could you please provide the reference to this estimate?

Anonymous wrote:How would this work? US soccer should scout the 50 different leagues in the region? This does not seem realistic.

Rather, US soccer made clear that if you to play in a USYNT you need to be in the DA. If your DC is of that caliber, you are lucky, as there are plenty of DA teams in the DMV.

USSF employed 11 full-time scouts/technical advisors last year for all age groups from senior team to youth teams. During the same year, the USSF had a surplus between $130-140 million so it is not like they could not afford meaningful scouting. In contrast, Ajax (a very budget conscious club) employed 55 full-time scouts. So which entity is serious about the player identification and development? Do you think Ajax would limit itself to scouting players in a single league? Would any serious national federation do what USSF did?

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Anonymous wrote:Will anyone be able to compete with DCU and Bethesda this year?

DCU's 04s sent 3 players to the USYNT U15 camp last week, plus their GK went with the U15s last year to compete in Europe. None of the other area clubs seem to be getting any call-ups, even though Bethesda's 04s were probably a better team. Plus Bethesda had a couple of standout 04s playing with the 03s most of the time. I wonder if they will be tempted to jump over, just so they can get a fair look from US Soccer scouts.

One of them was with Arlington and got selected as Arlington player. He just joined DCU.

This is a big part of the UMMT talent issue. They look at a very limited pool of players. Many of the best players in the country are not playing in DA. That’s not to take away from any of the kids selected.

142 out of 153 had DA ties. Yes, it’s virtually impossible for a player not with DA. That’s the USA’s problem. It’s a limited and self-selecting pool.

These are interesting points, but not really relevant to the topic here, which is for discussions of the actual DA program. I think it may make sense to have a new thread along the lines of "What's wrong with US soccer" so the discussion can happen there without derailing all the other threads.

DP here. But wasn't the point of the earlier post that DCU is soooo good because three of its players were selected to U15 NT camp? Nothing against these particular players, but if the USSF soccer has indeed created a self-selecting pool (i.e., DA players plus a handful of foreign based players), then the selection only means that the selected players are big fish in a very small pond.

There is no question DA players have an advantage over non-DA when it comes to USYNT selections. That has been part of what has driven recruitment to the DA since it started. USYNT dreamers go there to give themselves the best shot getting selected, the other top talent follows because they want to play with and compete against the best.
So 10 or so years in, the USSF's bias has become accurate (even if maybe it wasn't so at the beginning). In 2018, the vast majority of the top talent plays in the DA. There are exceptions, but they are extremely rare.

The question is whether the USSF also has a bias that within the DA, the MLS academies have the best players. If so, will that also result in a self-fulfilling prophesy. In other words, will the best players from non-MLS DAs move to the MLS because they feel that's the only way they'll get a fair look, thus ultimately justifying the USSF's belief that MLS DAs have the best players?

Locally, this would have the biggest effect on Bethesda. By and large, most of the best players from Arlington, Loudoun and VDA's region seem to end up at DCU sooner or later already. Bethesda is the only one that seems able to compete consistently - both on the field and in player retention. They have some extremely talented players at that club (especially in the 06/05s) and it would be a shame not to see them get the recognition and opportunities they deserve.

Good post. I agree that it makes perfect sense for the DA in its current form to be the main focus of US scouts, at least in areas like ours where it is relatively easy for most talented kids to get to a DA program (and receive funding if they need it). The pool being scouted is not small if you think about the numbers of kids that are being gradually funneled up from the huge number of area rec and travel programs to the (multiple) DAs we have here. As discussed in other threads, if DC United were free, like all the other DA MLS academies, it would be an even more efficient system.

On the MLS vs. non-MLS DA front, taking the U15 group as an example, I'd note that a lot of kids called into earlier camps this cycle were not from MLS DAs. Check out this thread to see a roster for an earlier camp http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/the-u-s-u-15-program-2017-18-thread.2080038/page-2. It's important for people to remember that the NT pools are pretty large for most youth age groups, so you have to look at the various call ups through the years to get the complete picture. The YNT forum on Big Soccer where that link came from is a good source for this. There are lots of smart posters there who are obsessed with this stuff, and much less likely than many DCUM posters to veer off onto tangents or make personal attacks.

With respect to DCU vs. Bethesda, I think Bethesda will remain a viable option for talented players, though it will have more of an uphill battle if DCU is ever fully funded or if the DA moves to a two tiered system. Bethesda has the advantage of a good, stable youth development program and they promote from within for their DA where possible. Both these things help foster club loyalty. They also have very good college commitments compared to most other programs, which a lot of people in our area value highly. In addition, the club has developed a number of pros over the years, and they have done alright on the playoff and YNT call-up front most years since getting the DA. I recommend that people check the twitter and social media accounts of the programs they are interested in to get a sense of club and player accomplishments.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How would this work? US soccer should scout the 50 different leagues in the region? This does not seem realistic.

Rather, US soccer made clear that if you to play in a USYNT you need to be in the DA. If your DC is of that caliber, you are lucky, as there are plenty of DA teams in the DMV.

Does DCU DA have open tryouts?

Constantly.

They have what they call Talent ID days about once a month it seems, at locations all over the area. If a player shows well there they are invited out to training for a week or two with the DA team in their age group, and then the club makes a decision.

Rarely a week goes by there aren't one or two players on trial in each of the age groups. Existing players know they are never safe. Every practice session is literally a tryout.

okay. thanks!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How would this work? US soccer should scout the 50 different leagues in the region? This does not seem realistic.

Rather, US soccer made clear that if you to play in a USYNT you need to be in the DA. If your DC is of that caliber, you are lucky, as there are plenty of DA teams in the DMV.

Does DCU DA have open tryouts?

Constantly.

They have what they call Talent ID days about once a month it seems, at locations all over the area. If a player shows well there they are invited out to training for a week or two with the DA team in their age group, and then the club makes a decision.

Rarely a week goes by there aren't one or two players on trial in each of the age groups. Existing players know they are never safe. Every practice session is literally a tryout.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How would this work? US soccer should scout the 50 different leagues in the region? This does not seem realistic.

Rather, US soccer made clear that if you to play in a USYNT you need to be in the DA. If your DC is of that caliber, you are lucky, as there are plenty of DA teams in the DMV.

Read again. MLS DA teams.

There is only 1 and it’s in Loudoun.

Many of the travel Club DAs do not. They only recommend certain players for tryouts to their DA teams. It's about as political as it gets.

Sorry, that was meant in response to the pp above you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How would this work? US soccer should scout the 50 different leagues in the region? This does not seem realistic.

Rather, US soccer made clear that if you to play in a USYNT you need to be in the DA. If your DC is of that caliber, you are lucky, as there are plenty of DA teams in the DMV.

Read again. MLS DA teams.

There is only 1 and it’s in Loudoun.

Many of the travel Club DAs do not. They only recommend certain players for tryouts to their DA teams. It's about as political as it gets.

Anonymous wrote:How would this work? US soccer should scout the 50 different leagues in the region? This does not seem realistic.

Rather, US soccer made clear that if you to play in a USYNT you need to be in the DA. If your DC is of that caliber, you are lucky, as there are plenty of DA teams in the DMV.

Does DCU DA have open tryouts?

Anonymous wrote:How would this work? US soccer should scout the 50 different leagues in the region? This does not seem realistic.

Rather, US soccer made clear that if you to play in a USYNT you need to be in the DA. If your DC is of that caliber, you are lucky, as there are plenty of DA teams in the DMV.

Read again. MLS DA teams.

There is only 1 and it’s in Loudoun.

How would this work? US soccer should scout the 50 different leagues in the region? This does not seem realistic.

Rather, US soccer made clear that if you to play in a USYNT you need to be in the DA. If your DC is of that caliber, you are lucky, as there are plenty of DA teams in the DMV.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will anyone be able to compete with DCU and Bethesda this year?

DCU's 04s sent 3 players to the USYNT U15 camp last week, plus their GK went with the U15s last year to compete in Europe. None of the other area clubs seem to be getting any call-ups, even though Bethesda's 04s were probably a better team. Plus Bethesda had a couple of standout 04s playing with the 03s most of the time. I wonder if they will be tempted to jump over, just so they can get a fair look from US Soccer scouts.

One of them was with Arlington and got selected as Arlington player. He just joined DCU.

This is a big part of the UMMT talent issue. They look at a very limited pool of players. Many of the best players in the country are not playing in DA. That’s not to take away from any of the kids selected.

142 out of 153 had DA ties. Yes, it’s virtually impossible for a player not with DA. That’s the USA’s problem. It’s a limited and self-selecting pool.

These are interesting points, but not really relevant to the topic here, which is for discussions of the actual DA program. I think it may make sense to have a new thread along the lines of "What's wrong with US soccer" so the discussion can happen there without derailing all the other threads.

DP here. But wasn't the point of the earlier post that DCU is soooo good because three of its players were selected to U15 NT camp? Nothing against these particular players, but if the USSF soccer has indeed created a self-selecting pool (i.e., DA players plus a handful of foreign based players), then the selection only means that the selected players are big fish in a very small pond.

There is no question DA players have an advantage over non-DA when it comes to USYNT selections. That has been part of what has driven recruitment to the DA since it started. USYNT dreamers go there to give themselves the best shot getting selected, the other top talent follows because they want to play with and compete against the best.
So 10 or so years in, the USSF's bias has become accurate (even if maybe it wasn't so at the beginning). In 2018, the vast majority of the top talent plays in the DA. There are exceptions, but they are extremely rare.

The question is whether the USSF also has a bias that within the DA, the MLS academies have the best players. If so, will that also result in a self-fulfilling prophesy. In other words, will the best players from non-MLS DAs move to the MLS because they feel that's the only way they'll get a fair look, thus ultimately justifying the USSF's belief that MLS DAs have the best players?

Locally, this would have the biggest effect on Bethesda. By and large, most of the best players from Arlington, Loudoun and VDA's region seem to end up at DCU sooner or later already. Bethesda is the only one that seems able to compete consistently - both on the field and in player retention. They have some extremely talented players at that club (especially in the 06/05s) and it would be a shame not to see them get the recognition and opportunities they deserve.

Underlying the point, that if you aren't part of those MLS DAs, zero chance for those USMNT hopes. I wish our system worked better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will anyone be able to compete with DCU and Bethesda this year?

DCU's 04s sent 3 players to the USYNT U15 camp last week, plus their GK went with the U15s last year to compete in Europe. None of the other area clubs seem to be getting any call-ups, even though Bethesda's 04s were probably a better team. Plus Bethesda had a couple of standout 04s playing with the 03s most of the time. I wonder if they will be tempted to jump over, just so they can get a fair look from US Soccer scouts.

One of them was with Arlington and got selected as Arlington player. He just joined DCU.

This is a big part of the UMMT talent issue. They look at a very limited pool of players. Many of the best players in the country are not playing in DA. That’s not to take away from any of the kids selected.

142 out of 153 had DA ties. Yes, it’s virtually impossible for a player not with DA. That’s the USA’s problem. It’s a limited and self-selecting pool.

These are interesting points, but not really relevant to the topic here, which is for discussions of the actual DA program. I think it may make sense to have a new thread along the lines of "What's wrong with US soccer" so the discussion can happen there without derailing all the other threads.

DP here. But wasn't the point of the earlier post that DCU is soooo good because three of its players were selected to U15 NT camp? Nothing against these particular players, but if the USSF soccer has indeed created a self-selecting pool (i.e., DA players plus a handful of foreign based players), then the selection only means that the selected players are big fish in a very small pond.

There is no question DA players have an advantage over non-DA when it comes to USYNT selections. That has been part of what has driven recruitment to the DA since it started. USYNT dreamers go there to give themselves the best shot getting selected, the other top talent follows because they want to play with and compete against the best.
So 10 or so years in, the USSF's bias has become accurate (even if maybe it wasn't so at the beginning). In 2018, the vast majority of the top talent plays in the DA. There are exceptions, but they are extremely rare.

The question is whether the USSF also has a bias that within the DA, the MLS academies have the best players. If so, will that also result in a self-fulfilling prophesy. In other words, will the best players from non-MLS DAs move to the MLS because they feel that's the only way they'll get a fair look, thus ultimately justifying the USSF's belief that MLS DAs have the best players?

Locally, this would have the biggest effect on Bethesda. By and large, most of the best players from Arlington, Loudoun and VDA's region seem to end up at DCU sooner or later already. Bethesda is the only one that seems able to compete consistently - both on the field and in player retention. They have some extremely talented players at that club (especially in the 06/05s) and it would be a shame not to see them get the recognition and opportunities they deserve.

The evening drive in rush hour traffic from Bethesda to the new DCU facility in Loudoun would cause an early death.