Anonymous wrote:I went to hs 20 years ago and took 9 aps. They had the best teachers and the most interesting curriculum. Things like enough lot and European history not to mention calculus etc. they were challenging and interesting and we had the smartest kids in school on them. Would have been bored and not challenged in regular and honor classes.

+1 - My AP English, AP American History classes were the best classes I took in high school for critical thinking and writing. AP Calc was tougher than tough, but it was supposed to be. The students I know that took AP Science classes loved them because they had the kids that were most interested in those subjects and could cover the subjects faster and more in-depth.

I don't think it's worth blaming the AP program - I think an AP class (just like any other class) is as good or bad as the teacher that it teaching it. I do think that AP classes have a higher percentage (in public school) of having competent teachers.

When I was in HS @FCPS almost 40 years ago, we had APs too. For example, during my senior year, I took 4.

The main difference was we didn't get bonus GPA points for it. We took them to learn. There were far fewer students in these programs than today. I suspect this made them more competitive because the bar was higher.

In fact, I had around 20 college credits from my APs but only one class was applicable toward my undergrad program.

I, too, went to a high school without APs but my "honors" courses were as difficult or more difficult than APs (though different-- much more reading; fewer multiple choice questions).

However, the want things have evolved in MCPS is that the 'honors' courses aren't challenging at all. They are more like MS courses. My dd took two APs last year, and the rest honors, and the only classes where she had significant work/studying was in the AP classes.

So we have her taking APs not for the college credit, but because otherwise she wouldn't learn much or be challenged at all.

It’s a class issue OP. All the top private high schools just signed a pact that they’re phasing out AP courses over the next four years. They believe their courses are higher quality, involve more critical thinking, and could more easily be multidisciplinary with less pressures comply with AP course standards. They’re probably right. The student bodies in those schools tends to be fairly uniform in terms of ability, so it’s not the only way to surround yourself with other smart kids. Many if not most kids in that setting don’t need to worry about whether they earn credits or save money by taking AP courses.

Meanwhile, in public schools, APs offer a baseline standard that might be more rigorous than what the school otherwise offers. It may be the only way to bring similarly academically inclined students. That money savings from earning credits while in HS means something more to many of these kids.


On the admissions front, fwiw, I know people who say that if the kids are all taking APs, they’ll expect your kid to as well. And the reverse is true. Also, admissions officers know that in some wealthy communities, like MCPS, the schools want as many kids as possible enrolled in AP classes. That means the classes are not as difficult as they are elsewhere, and they know that.

OP sounds privileged and unaware-patting himself on the back for his success in college and law school when he already was born on third base with his high quality private school education that offered courses more challenging than APs. I went to mediocre public high school (great schools 5) and without my APs to signal to colleges that I could handle their Ivy League curriculum even though half my student body didn’t go to college, I wouldn’t have gotten in.

Granted I took the classes 30 years ago so things may have changed but it was very much geared towards passing the test when I was in HS - obviously to get the college credits but also so the school could take credit for the percentage of kids who passed.

But college courses were much more writing dependent (and lab dependent) than the way it was taught at my public HS though the AP classes were all equivalent to intro level college classes which tended to be big and taught by grad students anyhow so maybe I didn't miss much but in my case it really does seem like the smaller sized HS class could have served a lot more of a purpose if it wasn't so oriented towards passing the test.

Having said that at my high school the AP classes were the advanced classes for juniors and seniors and virtually everyone college bound would have been poorly served by not being in the classes and maybe under prepared but the same dynamic may not exist today or perhaps not at private schools.

Personally I think HS kids should be doing lots of reading and the writing they do should be to cultivate their vocabularies and critical thinking skills and ability to express themselves and HS should be more about cultivating kids than purely measuring them with grades which was not at all my HS experience which was dominated by busy work and memorization so if you could teach AP classes but not orient it to the test and not worry about the results that would be a big improvement over my own experience.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are not doing it to cut the cost of college for our kids, we are using APs as a signalling device to the colleges about how academically strong our student is.

Yikes @ how narcissistic this sounds.

No. Not narcissistic. Just pragmatic and strategic. Our kid is a high achiever who can easily take on the AP load. We really do not care what the parents of MCPS-average kids think. BTW, MCPS-average is slightly better than DCPS-average at least for now. In the next couple of years MCPS will be comparable to Prince George's Public School or DCPS.

My crappy HS didn’t offer a single AP. I didn’t get into any top tier undergrads despite 32 ACT, “good” extracurriculars, and solid GPA. Which is why I had to go to a T14 law school at all all.

Anonymous wrote:We are not doing it to cut the cost of college for our kids, we are using APs as a signalling device to the colleges about how academically strong our student is.

Yikes @ how narcissistic this sounds.

It's also about the other students in you AP class: usually great, in-depth discussions because you have kids in them that want to be there, want to learn, etc.. Therefore, less behavior problems/disruptions.

Anonymous wrote:I don't care, but my kid's high school offers them and colleges expect them. Most colleges don't give you any credit for them, with a few exceptions. The only time one of my kids received college credit was when he/she did HISCIP and took two classes at Georgetown senior year. Both classes (6 credits) were transferable.

Huh.

My neighbors kid graduated a year early due to AP classes she took at her fcps high school.

I don't care, but my kid's high school offers them and colleges expect them. Most colleges don't give you any credit for them, with a few exceptions. The only time one of my kids received college credit was when he/she did HISCIP and took two classes at Georgetown senior year. Both classes (6 credits) were transferable.

We are not doing it to cut the cost of college for our kids, we are using APs as a signalling device to the colleges about how academically strong our student is.

Not ridiculous if the cost of college credits matters to you. AP tests cost less than college credits. And if you are able to use AP credits to cut your college time by a semester or even more, that saves big $.

Anonymous wrote:I do.

I'm your classic Type A over-achiever, but I'm older than the AP craze. I took one AP senior year at my private HS.

I enjoyed HS. I was well equipped to succeed in college and law school. Candidly, my private HS was more challenging than law school (and I went to a tier I law school).

Why can't we just let kids be kids and enjoy HS? Is the stress really worth it? I don't believe it is. I wish we could launch a mutiny and dial it down a notch.

I would much rather see APs replaced with seminars dedicated to critical thinking, creative problem-solving, public service, international affairs, etc.

same college admittance game with or without APs. must be better or better differentiated than other kids in your school or area applying to same colleges you are.

until parents and kids don't care what tier college or type of college they go to, there will be stress. sure, you can tune it out and kumbaya it in HS. but at the end of the day you're going to have to compete to be admitted to a strong program. and competing is usually a relative game, though there are some major boosts nowadays for first gen college admits, dreamers, minority programs.