Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do understand that the stats on priest abuse are very similar to abuse in leadership in other faiths? It isn't just a "Catholic" issue. It is a human issue.

This is why you have to leave OP.
The people who stay will keep normalizing abuse and the leadership will keep covering it up. Nothing will change until a mass exodus forces change. Be a part of the solution.

You missed the part about it being a human issue. No one is "normalizing" this abhorrent behavior simply stating that it is a problem in all religious institutions and because it is a "human issue" it is also a problem in schools, clubs, etc. People will single out the Catholic Church while ignoring the bigger problem in society as a whole.

When it happens in a school, the person is fired and/or sent to jail.

When it happens in the Catholic church, they just moved the abuser to a new church.

These things are not equal.

And at Penn State, they gave the guy free tickets to football games and let him run a program for boys from poor families.

Unfortunately, people used to genuinely believe that someone could be "cured" of these "urges." They thought a few months of therapy could fix the person, and then he could be placed elsewhere. We know better now, but many people did not have an understanding of these situations back in the fifties and sixties.

It would have been better if people in the past could have had the knowledge we have now, but sadly they did not. Many, many people wish they could have known then what we know now about how to deal with child molesters. Many people, both within the Catholic Church and in many other organizations that work with young people, would have done the right thing, if they'd only known that people can't just cure themselves and just decide not to do these evil acts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do understand that the stats on priest abuse are very similar to abuse in leadership in other faiths? It isn't just a "Catholic" issue. It is a human issue.

Where is this happening in other faiths? I grew up in Catholic school, but I am protestant. There isn't much difference in the two religions except that Catholic priests seem to have much more contact with young boys because of altar boys (the boys in my super conservative MoCo parish used to brag that the cool, young priest used to show them porno mags. I shutter now to think of what else happened to them), first communion and confession. It's such an easy breeding ground for abuse. We didn't have these things in the protestant church, they were more community centered vs. priest/child centered.

This is not to excuse the catholic church, which probably dwarfs others in the magnitude, impact and brazenness of the abuse, but the New Yorker ran an article about 10 years ago documenting this in ultra-orthodox Jewish communities. I mentioned it to a Muslim friend and he said it happens in Muslim communities too. There was a case in a Protestant church in NoVA that was in the papers a few years ago that I remember pretty vividly.

Basically, if you put people in positions of unquestioned authority, it's only a matter of time before the positions attract would be abusers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do understand that the stats on priest abuse are very similar to abuse in leadership in other faiths? It isn't just a "Catholic" issue. It is a human issue.

This is why you have to leave OP.
The people who stay will keep normalizing abuse and the leadership will keep covering it up. Nothing will change until a mass exodus forces change. Be a part of the solution.

You missed the part about it being a human issue. No one is "normalizing" this abhorrent behavior simply stating that it is a problem in all religious institutions and because it is a "human issue" it is also a problem in schools, clubs, etc. People will single out the Catholic Church while ignoring the bigger problem in society as a whole.

When it happens in a school, the person is fired and/or sent to jail.

When it happens in the Catholic church, they just moved the abuser to a new church.

These things are not equal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do understand that the stats on priest abuse are very similar to abuse in leadership in other faiths? It isn't just a "Catholic" issue. It is a human issue.

Where is this happening in other faiths? I grew up in Catholic school, but I am protestant. There isn't much difference in the two religions except that Catholic priests seem to have much more contact with young boys because of altar boys (the boys in my super conservative MoCo parish used to brag that the cool, young priest used to show them porno mags. I shutter now to think of what else happened to them), first communion and confession. It's such an easy breeding ground for abuse. We didn't have these things in the protestant church, they were more community centered vs. priest/child centered.

The stats show that abuse is very similar in other faiths. It just doesn't get as much press as it does wit the Catholic Church.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do understand that the stats on priest abuse are very similar to abuse in leadership in other faiths? It isn't just a "Catholic" issue. It is a human issue.

This is why you have to leave OP.
The people who stay will keep normalizing abuse and the leadership will keep covering it up. Nothing will change until a mass exodus forces change. Be a part of the solution.

You missed the part about it being a human issue. No one is "normalizing" this abhorrent behavior simply stating that it is a problem in all religious institutions and because it is a "human issue" it is also a problem in schools, clubs, etc. People will single out the Catholic Church while ignoring the bigger problem in society as a whole.

If your faith is that fungible, then I respectfully suggest you consider the option of no church. It is a real, respectable, and worthy option.

Your children can then decide for themselves when they are mature, and when they make all their other critically important life decisions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You might also like a Methodist church. I'm a former Catholic and there seem to be a lot of us at my Methodist church. Very traditional service, strong focus on social justice. However, the service style can vary a lot between congregations, with some being very "contemporary."

And considering that your kids are a big focus of concern in this change-over, perhaps you should have them "try out" the services and sunday schools at various churches before making a decision. It could be that your kids will warm up to a certain religion/church in a way that would not have occurred to you, but that you approve of.

Since your original question was about how to explain the change to your children -- Maybe you don't have to go into too much detail about your reasons -- and you certainly don't have to take any blame.

Anonymous wrote:You do understand that the stats on priest abuse are very similar to abuse in leadership in other faiths? It isn't just a "Catholic" issue. It is a human issue.

Where is this happening in other faiths? I grew up in Catholic school, but I am protestant. There isn't much difference in the two religions except that Catholic priests seem to have much more contact with young boys because of altar boys (the boys in my super conservative MoCo parish used to brag that the cool, young priest used to show them porno mags. I shutter now to think of what else happened to them), first communion and confession. It's such an easy breeding ground for abuse. We didn't have these things in the protestant church, they were more community centered vs. priest/child centered.

Switching Catholic for another Christian church is not moving to another fate. Why not just respect your spouse and become Jewish? Or Orthodox Christian? They are pretty stuck in their church too, so it might not be that big of a switch. Big deal is only big if you make it so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You might also like a Methodist church. I'm a former Catholic and there seem to be a lot of us at my Methodist church. Very traditional service, strong focus on social justice. However, the service style can vary a lot between congregations, with some being very "contemporary."

And considering that your kids are a big focus of concern in this change-over, perhaps you should have them "try out" the services and sunday schools at various churches before making a decision. It could be that your kids will warm up to a certain religion/church in a way that would not have occurred to you, but that you approve of.

OP here - that's a good point (as is the earlier point about the conversation with my elder). Thank you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do understand that the stats on priest abuse are very similar to abuse in leadership in other faiths? It isn't just a "Catholic" issue. It is a human issue.

This is why you have to leave OP.
The people who stay will keep normalizing abuse and the leadership will keep covering it up. Nothing will change until a mass exodus forces change. Be a part of the solution.

I read that as a warning, not a normalization.

Anonymous wrote:You might also like a Methodist church. I'm a former Catholic and there seem to be a lot of us at my Methodist church. Very traditional service, strong focus on social justice. However, the service style can vary a lot between congregations, with some being very "contemporary."

And considering that your kids are a big focus of concern in this change-over, perhaps you should have them "try out" the services and sunday schools at various churches before making a decision. It could be that your kids will warm up to a certain religion/church in a way that would not have occurred to you, but that you approve of.

You might also like a Methodist church. I'm a former Catholic and there seem to be a lot of us at my Methodist church. Very traditional service, strong focus on social justice. However, the service style can vary a lot between congregations, with some being very "contemporary."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Episcopalian or possibly Lutheran is what you want. Start this Sunday by visiting a few and so by late September you will have chosen one.

This. You'll find a similar liturgy and pace to worship. Confirmation and communion are still rights, though approached differently than Catholics do.

+1

~Cradle Catholic, worship in an ELCA Lutheran church

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Episcopalian or possibly Lutheran is what you want. Start this Sunday by visiting a few and so by late September you will have chosen one.

This. You'll find a similar liturgy and pace to worship. Confirmation and communion are still rights, though approached differently than Catholics do.

I agree -- this would be the easiest and most "natural" transition. You will find lots of other former Catholics there.

You still may want to look into Unitarianism - no "smells and bells" there, but an openness that you might prefer, while keeping in mind that unitarianism is not "Christ-centered" at all.