Point 4 on what 22:16 says (they get something...). They are getting a DOPAMINE surge, OP, from your behavior!

Also agree with the PP who laughs it off, as long as you laugh *with* them, because if they start laughing with you, it stops the face-losing dynamic...here is why:

You want to *not* set up a situation where you have drawn a line in the sand. Because then they cross it, and then you feel you must fight or be seen as a paper tiger.

But the fight releases dopamine in the teen's brain, so it actually reinforces the bad behavior. Please read that last sentence again! You are undermining yourself!

Here is the book that completely changed my relationship with my teen DD --we went from starting to actually get physical, it was getting so bad, and I was considering boarding school....to a tight relationship, and btw, although I get uptight at times, I NEVER do to the degree that I used to. The best part is you know you don't have to stop their behavior in the moment in order to be a good parent. You CAN ignore it or walk away. Liberating! It was a DCUM rec in response to a desperate post of mine.

Yes, Your Teen is Crazy!: Loving Your Kid Without Losing Your Mind
https://www.amazon.com/Yes-Your-Teen-Crazy-Without/dp/0936197447/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1533052908&sr=8-1&keywords=yes+your+teen+is+crazy+book

Example: We were at a family camp last week, and I just recommended this book to a friend of mine with a DD of the same-age, similar personality. At night, both our kids were hanging out a little bit off the property with other teens. We could see where they were because of our apps (Life 360; fantastic app, btw).

Mom-friend texted something like: "Get OFF the dock and get back on the property NOW"

I texted something like: "Hi honey! There's a curfew so can you please wrap up what you are doing, and make your way back up to the (property)? We probably should be thinking about getting to bed soon" (heart emoji)

Her teenager did not reply and her mom started to get furious. Mine replied, "In a couple minutes" and I replied "ok" with a smiley emoji.

After a few more furious texts from mom-friend, her DD responded "what do you want" and the mom was outraged as her DD was acting like she hadn't read the previous texts but of course we both knew that she had.

As you can imagine, this progressed and my friend was getting more and more irate while I felt like I was fishing, teasing that line. I totally learned this trick from the book. My friend was now ready to do battle--make her way to where her teen was, which of course would both blow the fact that she was being tracked, and embarrass her teen in front of friends which would create a worse situation later on for the mom+teen relationship. She was so mad at this point that she was talking about not bringing her DD back to the family camp the following year...

My next move was something like, "hey, honey, how are you doing there on time?" A few minutes later I got back, "Coming now."

The trick is not drawing the line in the sand, so they feel like it's their decision not yours, and give them a little play in the fishing line (in this situation, I asked for *considering the idea of* coming home right away and she countered by taking a few minutes more.)

Ok I'm not telling you this story to pat myself on the back--believe me, my DD is a handful--I'm telling it because this book changed my life for the better. I've been in that powerless, enraged place that my friend occupies and it is not only no fun, it gets poor results and is bad for the relationship. Thanks to this book, it is possible that I will get this kid off to college without having a heart attack.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 13 yo DD and 11 yo DS are generally very good. They get good grades, are personable and polite to family and friends, etc

The one exception - me. And I’ve had it. Here’s an example: they each had three chores to do today. I didn’t nag or pester, just said they had to be done by dinner. Well It’s getting close to dinner and I calmly remind them they haven’t finished their chores.

My son flops in a chair and whines that he needs some time to rest because his legs hurt. His chore was to sweep the porch.

My DD has to load the dishwasher. She whines she doesn’t know how so my husband - nice as could be - says he’ll help her. She makes this mopey face and plops down into a chair not listening to him nor did she say thanks to him.

I see this and explode on the both of them! That we ask very little of them and is it that much to ask for less whining and a little energy?!

This dynamic used to be infrequent but it’s been happening EVERY DAY and I’m at my wits end! I hate how I explode as I don’t think it sets a good example of how to behave but it’s INFRUIATING! FWIW I manage a team of 125 people at work and that is an emotional cakewalk compared to this.

A child development expert would tell you giving them a window of time to complete something probably isn't very effective. Better to deal in real-time workstreams.

Instead of saying to child "you have until 5 p.m. to do XYZ," try saying, "OK, child, it's 11 a.m. and you've been on your screen for three hours. Time to take a break and sweep the porch/load the dishwasher now." And get it done there and then.

Interesting. My kids are younger, but I always thought it was nicer to give then some flexibility in scheduling. I know I don't like being ordered around on someone else's schedule; if I have three chores to do, I like to choose when I do them. But like OP, my kids tend not to do them until the very end and I end up yelling at them to do it NOW! Then they say they don't like being ordered around.

Anonymous wrote:My 13 yo DD and 11 yo DS are generally very good. They get good grades, are personable and polite to family and friends, etc

The one exception - me. And I’ve had it. Here’s an example: they each had three chores to do today. I didn’t nag or pester, just said they had to be done by dinner. Well It’s getting close to dinner and I calmly remind them they haven’t finished their chores.

My son flops in a chair and whines that he needs some time to rest because his legs hurt. His chore was to sweep the porch.

My DD has to load the dishwasher. She whines she doesn’t know how so my husband - nice as could be - says he’ll help her. She makes this mopey face and plops down into a chair not listening to him nor did she say thanks to him.

I see this and explode on the both of them! That we ask very little of them and is it that much to ask for less whining and a little energy?!

This dynamic used to be infrequent but it’s been happening EVERY DAY and I’m at my wits end! I hate how I explode as I don’t think it sets a good example of how to behave but it’s INFRUIATING! FWIW I manage a team of 125 people at work and that is an emotional cakewalk compared to this.

A child development expert would tell you giving them a window of time to complete something probably isn't very effective. Better to deal in real-time workstreams.

Instead of saying to child "you have until 5 p.m. to do XYZ," try saying, "OK, child, it's 11 a.m. and you've been on your screen for three hours. Time to take a break and sweep the porch/load the dishwasher now." And get it done there and then.

I've never lost my sh$$ over this type of stuff. Minor annoyance at best, and if this is the most unacceptable behavior you get from your teens, you're pretty lucky. I guess it just depends on your perspective.

I will say, however, that my teen doesn't whine about this stuff. He is very agreeable - just may or may not actually do the thing, and half the time when he doesn't, he just forgot about it. If he puts it off too long, I might tell him he can't take the car until he does what I asked and then he says "Oh yeah!" and does it. I am the rare DCUM moms who doesn't automatically take away the electronics for every misstep in adolescence.

Well we all need to learn to be responsible and these are the first steps. Pretty soon you will want to learn to drive a car. You will need to be very responsible to do that. So show me you can be responsible so I know you will be able to XYZ (spend the night at a friends, go to practice, use electronics.

My kids are older than OPs. I haven't really found any correlation between remembering to empty the dishwasher and driving a car. Kid is a careful driver and obeys all the rules applicable to under 18 drivers. He just doesn't always notice the recycling piling up.

I also like to use a statement along these lines (when they get older)

Well we all need to learn to be responsible and these are the first steps. Pretty soon you will want to learn to drive a car. You will need to be very responsible to do that. So show me you can be responsible so I know you will be able to XYZ (spend the night at a friends, go to practice, use electronics.

Put it on them, they need to prove to you they are maturing.

Good luck

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've given up. I'm counting years til they turn 18.

it doesn't get much better so don't hold your breath. ours is 18, and preparing to move out and into a college dorm in three weeks

we are not talking rocket science here and some of the tasks might take an hour, two tops

emptying desk drawers/closets of old highschool crap and purge
get the crap off the walls (posters chsitmas lights, ect)
getting rid of clothes that don't fit
tidy up closets
go through old games. trash or donate accordingly
Legos- time to disassemble and pack away.
yes she still has regular chores like litter box duty and unload dishwasher, packing for college, ect

and I'm willing to help get rid of stuff via freecycle/neighborhood face page.

OMG, please just start on this crap so I don't feel like I'm being ignored. pick one job get it done, take a break, then move on to the next. Don't wait until the last week.

S/he might not want to do these things because they feel like s/he is losing their room and their childhood (purging HS stuff, taking the stuff off the bedroom walls, etc) It may be laziness, but it also may be very emotional no matter how excited to go to college.

I give a time line when I expect the jobs to be done and if the chores aren't done, the Wifi magically turns off. And if you whine about the chore, it turns off sooner.

This. Instead of being the enforcer of the chores, be the enforcer of the consequences. It makes for a better dynamic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've given up. I'm counting years til they turn 18.

it doesn't get much better so don't hold your breath. ours is 18, and preparing to move out and into a college dorm in three weeks

we are not talking rocket science here and some of the tasks might take an hour, two tops

emptying desk drawers/closets of old highschool crap and purge
get the crap off the walls (posters chsitmas lights, ect)
getting rid of clothes that don't fit
tidy up closets
go through old games. trash or donate accordingly
Legos- time to disassemble and pack away.
yes she still has regular chores like litter box duty and unload dishwasher, packing for college, ect

and I'm willing to help get rid of stuff via freecycle/neighborhood face page.

OMG, please just start on this crap so I don't feel like I'm being ignored. pick one job get it done, take a break, then move on to the next. Don't wait until the last week.

S/he might not want to do these things because they feel like s/he is losing their room and their childhood (purging HS stuff, taking the stuff off the bedroom walls, etc) It may be laziness, but it also may be very emotional no matter how excited to go to college.

I give a time line when I expect the jobs to be done and if the chores aren't done, the Wifi magically turns off. And if you whine about the chore, it turns off sooner.

What helped us is to say, you can (watch TV, play video games, use your iPhone) if you’ve completed your chores by certain time. Then you can stop nagging and reminding. The first couple of times, we had major meltdowns when the chores were not completed in time. But it was DC loosing their sh*t and not me. And after that, things started to improve.

It's okay to lose your shit every blue moon.

My neighbor timed her child emptying the dishwasher and it took 3 minutes. So now she says, you can't give me 3 minutes?

Then when they ask for something, like can you drive me to a friends, she says that will take me 30 minutes, yes I can do that or yes, I can after you empty the dishwasher.

1. The kids see it is not that much work.
2. When they can see it in a concrete form them are a little more appreciative/cooperative.

She doesn't do it all the time every time they ask for something but it did help a little.

Definitely read "Yes, Your Teen is Crazy." It puts it into perspective how to shrug off these things. It is going to get worse as they really get into puberty and you want to keep calm. After reading the book and using some techniques.... I actually started smiling when DD was going nuts, boy she got more crazy about me smiling and not taking her seriously. And while I am aware that I shouldn't have smiled during her "rant," in this case it was so worth it! The look on her face as she went off the rails at something stupid and then off the rails about me not taking her teen tantrum seriously! Priceless! (Bcs that is what they are actually doing to you, making fun of you "losing it," when you yell.)

Wifi isn't the only thing to hold over their head. Do you give them rides to practices, friend's houses, the mall, etc. You and the Dh are showing them if they whine long and load enough, they don't have to do their chores. Find your backbone and hold them to their chores. Ÿou do not have to scream or yell.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've given up. I'm counting years til they turn 18.

it doesn't get much better so don't hold your breath. ours is 18, and preparing to move out and into a college dorm in three weeks

we are not talking rocket science here and some of the tasks might take an hour, two tops

emptying desk drawers/closets of old highschool crap and purge
get the crap off the walls (posters chsitmas lights, ect)
getting rid of clothes that don't fit
tidy up closets
go through old games. trash or donate accordingly
Legos- time to disassemble and pack away.
yes she still has regular chores like litter box duty and unload dishwasher, packing for college, ect

and I'm willing to help get rid of stuff via freecycle/neighborhood face page.

OMG, please just start on this crap so I don't feel like I'm being ignored. pick one job get it done, take a break, then move on to the next. Don't wait until the last week.

Oh, I hear you. Going through the same thing with mine now...

"You need to leave your room neat and you need to know where things are so that if you need me to find something for you I can do it without tearing your room apart. I also need to be able to vacuum and dust your room, so there can't be any clutter on the floor or on the furniture."

Anonymous wrote:

My son flops in a chair and whines that he needs some time to rest because his legs hurt. His chore was to sweep the porch.

My DD has to load the dishwasher. She whines she doesn’t know how so my husband - nice as could be - says he’ll help her. She makes this mopey face and plops down into a chair not listening to him nor did she say thanks to him.

Sometimes I laugh. "I need to rest and my legs hurt from sweeping the porch" and "I don't know how to load the dishwasher" would probably have both made me laugh. Not that my kids like this either, but it's better than yelling, maybe.

Anonymous wrote:I've given up. I'm counting years til they turn 18.

it doesn't get much better so don't hold your breath. ours is 18, and preparing to move out and into a college dorm in three weeks

we are not talking rocket science here and some of the tasks might take an hour, two tops

emptying desk drawers/closets of old highschool crap and purge
get the crap off the walls (posters chsitmas lights, ect)
getting rid of clothes that don't fit
tidy up closets
go through old games. trash or donate accordingly
Legos- time to disassemble and pack away.
yes she still has regular chores like litter box duty and unload dishwasher, packing for college, ect

and I'm willing to help get rid of stuff via freecycle/neighborhood face page.

OMG, please just start on this crap so I don't feel like I'm being ignored. pick one job get it done, take a break, then move on to the next. Don't wait until the last week.

I’m a teacher so I’m trained to not lose it. Keep what you say brief, simple, and calm. Do not immediately repeat. Do not sidetrack or introduce new issues. Offer two choices. Do not negotiate for this episode. Schedule a time to talk when everyone is calmer.

I grew up with a mom who followed us through the house, berating. My dad hit us. I have never lost it with my kids or my students because I was trained how to remain calm and focused on the outcome. You really have to detach. After I posted a photo of a properly loaded dishwasher, my kid did it every time without a reminder.