Anonymous
07/04/2018 12:09
Subject: Discussion over whether to expand Tyler dual-lang program turns to gentrification debate
Thai article is very slanted and limited. We are high SES white family at Bruce Monroe. The school is majority Spanish dominant and low income. The school goes out of its way to serve low income Latinos. Are we having some growing pains? Yes but so are all gentrifying schools. the school has more slots for Spanish from kids thannenglish at the ECE leave to try to retain a 50/50 mix. No one is getting g pushed out, if anything high income parents are being kept out. Also, there are many black/ African Latinos who are Spanish dominant. So don’t just judge based on what you see people.
Anonymous
07/04/2018 11:42
Subject: Discussion over whether to expand Tyler dual-lang program turns to gentrification debate
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I thought the story was poorly done - I’m still not sure why low income families don’t want dual language. The only reason they gave was bc they don’t have time to help with homework, but I don’t speak Spanish and wouldn’t be able to help my kid with Spanish homework either. Seemed like wapo wanted to just debate the issue without proviiding all the facts.
Because if you are not at grade level in your native language and have poor test scores in English and Math, dual language is not a good fit. it's not like speaking two-languages brings advantages just by itself otherwise the local Latino students would overall be doing a lot better at DCPS, at most schools AA and Latino families are two subgroups that need more support. This argument is never clearly articulated when talking about the introduction of dual-language programs.
I’m the PP you responded to - this is very helpful, thank you! So is the issue that bc they aren’t up to grade level in English and math, dual language exacerbates the problem because they can’t concebtrate on the core subjects and parents also can’t help bc they don’t have time or speak the second language?
white high SES mom here. It's not only about the kids not being on grade level - it's that instruction in a different language just adds another complication and pretty big barrier between parents and teachers. My kid entered K not knowing how to read and write, and I'm glad I and his teachers could just focus in that without the added layer. Plus, I have serious doubts about the effectiveness of the immersion model. Our K teacher focused like a laser on Englisj literacy using her decades of experience and a research-based curriculum. She would not have been able to do that in an immersion model -- there would have simply been less time. Also, who are the immersion teachers? An immersion model means that the pool of effective, experienced teachers is smaller.
I’m high SES (but not white) and could have written this - we’re just not convinced about the immersion model here and want to focus on mastering core subjects. I imagine many low SES families have the same concerns.
Anonymous
07/04/2018 11:25
Subject: Discussion over whether to expand Tyler dual-lang program turns to gentrification debate
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I thought the story was poorly done - I’m still not sure why low income families don’t want dual language. The only reason they gave was bc they don’t have time to help with homework, but I don’t speak Spanish and wouldn’t be able to help my kid with Spanish homework either. Seemed like wapo wanted to just debate the issue without proviiding all the facts.
Because if you are not at grade level in your native language and have poor test scores in English and Math, dual language is not a good fit. it's not like speaking two-languages brings advantages just by itself otherwise the local Latino students would overall be doing a lot better at DCPS, at most schools AA and Latino families are two subgroups that need more support. This argument is never clearly articulated when talking about the introduction of dual-language programs.
I’m the PP you responded to - this is very helpful, thank you! So is the issue that bc they aren’t up to grade level in English and math, dual language exacerbates the problem because they can’t concebtrate on the core subjects and parents also can’t help bc they don’t have time or speak the second language?
That MIGHT be the issue or concern for some parents. And others may just have no interest in their child learning the target language at that age, seeing it as not as important as, say, the arts. And some may also feel that this is really a plot to push them out of the school and/or divert resources to the dual language program at the expense of the rest of the school.
NP.
The other issue with DI programs is that they either subtly or not-so-subtly encourage kids with learning disabilities to leave under the guise that DI "isn't the right fit.". This disproportionately affects low-SES students as the wealthier ones can pay for tutoring or whatever. I think many years from now people are going to see DI programs as problematic.
Anonymous
07/04/2018 11:24
Subject: Discussion over whether to expand Tyler dual-lang program turns to gentrification debate
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I thought the story was poorly done - I’m still not sure why low income families don’t want dual language. The only reason they gave was bc they don’t have time to help with homework, but I don’t speak Spanish and wouldn’t be able to help my kid with Spanish homework either. Seemed like wapo wanted to just debate the issue without proviiding all the facts.
Because if you are not at grade level in your native language and have poor test scores in English and Math, dual language is not a good fit. it's not like speaking two-languages brings advantages just by itself otherwise the local Latino students would overall be doing a lot better at DCPS, at most schools AA and Latino families are two subgroups that need more support. This argument is never clearly articulated when talking about the introduction of dual-language programs.
I’m the PP you responded to - this is very helpful, thank you! So is the issue that bc they aren’t up to grade level in English and math, dual language exacerbates the problem because they can’t concebtrate on the core subjects and parents also can’t help bc they don’t have time or speak the second language?
white high SES mom here. It's not only about the kids not being on grade level - it's that instruction in a different language just adds another complication and pretty big barrier between parents and teachers. My kid entered K not knowing how to read and write, and I'm glad I and his teachers could just focus in that without the added layer. Plus, I have serious doubts about the effectiveness of the immersion model. Our K teacher focused like a laser on Englisj literacy using her decades of experience and a research-based curriculum. She would not have been able to do that in an immersion model -- there would have simply been less time. Also, who are the immersion teachers? An immersion model means that the pool of effective, experienced teachers is smaller.
Anonymous
07/04/2018 11:06
Subject: Discussion over whether to expand Tyler dual-lang program turns to gentrification debate
Make Miner a dual language school since it is large and can accommodate different programs. Have a dual language path and call the other track STEM or college prep.
At Tyler, teach languages like a regular hour or whatever class every day instead of doing a quasi-immersion approach.
Also, D.C. needs to offer more language options in addition to Spanish; for example, French, Mandarin, Russian, Portuguese, and Arabic. There are probably other languages that should be included. Teach the language and the culture. Every school should offer a daily class of a foreign language.
Some don’t trust learning their core subjects in another language. Understandable.
At Tyler, teach languages like a regular hour or whatever class every day instead of doing a quasi-immersion approach.
Also, D.C. needs to offer more language options in addition to Spanish; for example, French, Mandarin, Russian, Portuguese, and Arabic. There are probably other languages that should be included. Teach the language and the culture. Every school should offer a daily class of a foreign language.
Some don’t trust learning their core subjects in another language. Understandable.
Anonymous
07/04/2018 11:01
Subject: Discussion over whether to expand Tyler dual-lang program turns to gentrification debate
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I thought the story was poorly done - I’m still not sure why low income families don’t want dual language. The only reason they gave was bc they don’t have time to help with homework, but I don’t speak Spanish and wouldn’t be able to help my kid with Spanish homework either. Seemed like wapo wanted to just debate the issue without proviiding all the facts.
Because if you are not at grade level in your native language and have poor test scores in English and Math, dual language is not a good fit. it's not like speaking two-languages brings advantages just by itself otherwise the local Latino students would overall be doing a lot better at DCPS, at most schools AA and Latino families are two subgroups that need more support. This argument is never clearly articulated when talking about the introduction of dual-language programs.
I’m the PP you responded to - this is very helpful, thank you! So is the issue that bc they aren’t up to grade level in English and math, dual language exacerbates the problem because they can’t concebtrate on the core subjects and parents also can’t help bc they don’t have time or speak the second language?
That MIGHT be the issue or concern for some parents. And others may just have no interest in their child learning the target language at that age, seeing it as not as important as, say, the arts. And some may also feel that this is really a plot to push them out of the school and/or divert resources to the dual language program at the expense of the rest of the school.
Anonymous
07/04/2018 10:55
Subject: Discussion over whether to expand Tyler dual-lang program turns to gentrification debate
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I thought the story was poorly done - I’m still not sure why low income families don’t want dual language. The only reason they gave was bc they don’t have time to help with homework, but I don’t speak Spanish and wouldn’t be able to help my kid with Spanish homework either. Seemed like wapo wanted to just debate the issue without proviiding all the facts.
Because if you are not at grade level in your native language and have poor test scores in English and Math, dual language is not a good fit. it's not like speaking two-languages brings advantages just by itself otherwise the local Latino students would overall be doing a lot better at DCPS, at most schools AA and Latino families are two subgroups that need more support. This argument is never clearly articulated when talking about the introduction of dual-language programs.
I’m the PP you responded to - this is very helpful, thank you! So is the issue that bc they aren’t up to grade level in English and math, dual language exacerbates the problem because they can’t concebtrate on the core subjects and parents also can’t help bc they don’t have time or speak the second language?
Anonymous
07/04/2018 10:52
Subject: Discussion over whether to expand Tyler dual-lang program turns to gentrification debate
Are the immersion parents still trying to get rid of the principal?
Anonymous
07/04/2018 10:31
Subject: Discussion over whether to expand Tyler dual-lang program turns to gentrification debate
Anonymous wrote:Look at the retention numbers. The spanish immersion program does not keep kids in the school past 1st grade. So why would an entire school adopt a model that does not hold on to its families.
Also, from my work at Tyler 10 years ago- these are the same parents who want separate lunches, rececess, aftercare than the 'create arts' kids. The wanted a segregated school. It is not a far stretch for Creative Arts program parents to think that pushing out poor black kids is their aim. It has been for the word go
Wow. Capitol Hill never changes. I'm glad we left there several years ago--we are middle class and the racial and class discrimination was out of control.
Anonymous
07/04/2018 10:12
Subject: Discussion over whether to expand Tyler dual-lang program turns to gentrification debate
The program currently has zero native speakers. So- are they going to carpool in these low income native speakers?
Anonymous
07/04/2018 10:00
Subject: Discussion over whether to expand Tyler dual-lang program turns to gentrification debate
Anonymous wrote:
Why don’t the Dual language folks start a charter? Because...they can’t hold onto students, parents, or teachers. That’s why. They want the DCPS funds, title I funds- just not the title I kids
And, consciously or unconsciously, they believe that low-income Latino kids and their families are more preferable classmates / superior than low-income Black kids and their families.
Anonymous
07/04/2018 09:27
Subject: Discussion over whether to expand Tyler dual-lang program turns to gentrification debate
Why don’t the Dual language folks start a charter? Because...they can’t hold onto students, parents, or teachers. That’s why. They want the DCPS funds, title I funds- just not the title I kids
Anonymous
07/04/2018 09:03
Subject: Re:Discussion over whether to expand Tyler dual-lang program turns to gentrification debate
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Agree with PP, everyone wants to have a kumbaya school with all kinds of socioeconomic diversity, unfortunately schools cannot meet both needs of the impoverished & upper middle class students. Eventually one will overtake the other. The black mother in the article recognizes that. It’s a sad state of affairs but DCPS truly needs to recognize the needs of each community will be different. A Deal for everyone was the stupidest campaign slogan Bowser ever came up with, every damn body can’t, won’t and doesn’t need a Deal because their communities vary. It’s akin to laser surgery, there is no one size fits all model. This is why many put their children in private school.
I could not disagree more. We're at a diverse Hill school and the school serves all kids.
What program is your child in?
Sorry, I mean we are at a different school, not Tyler!
Okay, then is your family high SES, middle class, low SES? Because I have a feeling you are not a low SES family and you are discounting people's feelings and experiences based on your perception. We were a Tyler family and I 100% understand why some of the families at Tyler felt like their program (creative arts- not immersion) was put by the wayside. Because it was. Tyler did not serve ALL families. And I'd place bets that the immersion families at Tyler would say it does. But it doesn't. And this is coming from a high SES, white family that was part of their immersion program.
Ok, my point was that neighborhood schools CAN serve all students. I was objecting to the PP who seemed to be claiming they can't. I can see how the dual programs at Tyler would get in the way of a unified school with the immersion program getting all the attention.
Anonymous
07/04/2018 08:34
Subject: Re:Discussion over whether to expand Tyler dual-lang program turns to gentrification debate
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Agree with PP, everyone wants to have a kumbaya school with all kinds of socioeconomic diversity, unfortunately schools cannot meet both needs of the impoverished & upper middle class students. Eventually one will overtake the other. The black mother in the article recognizes that. It’s a sad state of affairs but DCPS truly needs to recognize the needs of each community will be different. A Deal for everyone was the stupidest campaign slogan Bowser ever came up with, every damn body can’t, won’t and doesn’t need a Deal because their communities vary. It’s akin to laser surgery, there is no one size fits all model. This is why many put their children in private school.
I could not disagree more. We're at a diverse Hill school and the school serves all kids.
What program is your child in?
Sorry, I mean we are at a different school, not Tyler!
Okay, then is your family high SES, middle class, low SES? Because I have a feeling you are not a low SES family and you are discounting people's feelings and experiences based on your perception. We were a Tyler family and I 100% understand why some of the families at Tyler felt like their program (creative arts- not immersion) was put by the wayside. Because it was. Tyler did not serve ALL families. And I'd place bets that the immersion families at Tyler would say it does. But it doesn't. And this is coming from a high SES, white family that was part of their immersion program.
Anonymous
07/04/2018 08:29
Subject: Re:Discussion over whether to expand Tyler dual-lang program turns to gentrification debate
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Agree with PP, everyone wants to have a kumbaya school with all kinds of socioeconomic diversity, unfortunately schools cannot meet both needs of the impoverished & upper middle class students. Eventually one will overtake the other. The black mother in the article recognizes that. It’s a sad state of affairs but DCPS truly needs to recognize the needs of each community will be different. A Deal for everyone was the stupidest campaign slogan Bowser ever came up with, every damn body can’t, won’t and doesn’t need a Deal because their communities vary. It’s akin to laser surgery, there is no one size fits all model. This is why many put their children in private school.
I could not disagree more. We're at a diverse Hill school and the school serves all kids.
What program is your child in?
Sorry, I mean we are at a different school, not Tyler!