Poor Harvard. Facing so much push for "inclusiveness" (which, to be fair, is a legitimate goal in shaping an incoming freshman class) they put a thumb on the scale to advantage black and Hispanic applicants. This comes at a cost to white and Asian applicants. The whites take it on the chin and the Asians file a lawsuit.

Anonymous wrote:That's a pretty biased summary, but I'll bite.

As a Chinese-American parent, I want my DC to be evaluated as an individual based on his own achievement and characteristics. When you focus on group claims that Asian-Americans are "better" on average because they have higher test scores and grades, then you also might have to accept that the group on average may have personality traits that are "lesser" too. There is a cost to immigrant parents who insist that their children follow a narrow path of grinding at grades and test scores and playing a classical instrument. Often that cost is not developing the ability to "play well with others" which is at the core of empathy, respect, and leadership.

I've met dozens of really smart Asian-American college applicants who could not or did not know how to talk about how to persuade or lead others. And I've met many others who were great at it. The ones who are leaders and have great grades and scores get in to Harvard and other elite schools at many times their representation in the population. As a group, we're still grossly over represented after screening out the followers. As I tell new immigrant parents all the time, there is no gaokao in the US and getting a perfect GPA and SAT score is not sufficient to get into the top colleges.

Nobody ever said there was, and you're missing the important point of this exercise.

Anonymous wrote:To play devil’s advocate, why shouldn’t we take the admissions office at their word that on balance the Asians American students were lower on “positive personality,” likability, courage, kindness and being “widely respected”? The assumption here seems to be that obviously the students were wrongly interpreted and discriminated against, but not everyone has all the same qualities. And if Asian American parents disproportoonately are encouraging success in testing, grades, and music, why do we necessarily think they are also disproportionately focusing on kindness, courage, social skills, and leadership?

Because Harvard takes lower-scoring students without any evidence that they have better "soft" skills. Therefore, it is plain discrimination.

But thanks for coming back again and playing after your other racist post was deleted!

That's a pretty biased summary, but I'll bite.

As a Chinese-American parent, I want my DC to be evaluated as an individual based on his own achievement and characteristics. When you focus on group claims that Asian-Americans are "better" on average because they have higher test scores and grades, then you also might have to accept that the group on average may have personality traits that are "lesser" too. There is a cost to immigrant parents who insist that their children follow a narrow path of grinding at grades and test scores and playing a classical instrument. Often that cost is not developing the ability to "play well with others" which is at the core of empathy, respect, and leadership.

I've met dozens of really smart Asian-American college applicants who could not or did not know how to talk about how to persuade or lead others. And I've met many others who were great at it. The ones who are leaders and have great grades and scores get in to Harvard and other elite schools at many times their representation in the population. As a group, we're still grossly over represented after screening out the followers. As I tell new immigrant parents all the time, there is no gaokao in the US and getting a perfect GPA and SAT score is not sufficient to get into the top colleges.

Anonymous wrote:Asians are being used as pawns in yet another white attempt to keep the black and brown down.

https://www.vox.com/2018/3/28/17031460/affirmative-action-asian-discrimination-admissions

Vox is a disgrace of an outlet and leans left all the time. If you want to make a point, quote some reputable source, with some reputation for being balanced

Anonymous wrote:To play devil’s advocate, why shouldn’t we take the admissions office at their word that on balance the Asians American students were lower on “positive personality,” likability, courage, kindness and being “widely respected”? The assumption here seems to be that obviously the students were wrongly interpreted and discriminated against, but not everyone has all the same qualities. And if Asian American parents disproportoonately are encouraging success in testing, grades, and music, why do we necessarily think they are also disproportionately focusing on kindness, courage, social skills, and leadership?

Because of this...

Alumni interviewers give Asian-Americans personal ratings comparable to those of whites. But the admissions office gives them the worst scores of any racial group, often without even meeting them....

And they stopped their own study on discrimination. Why should we take their word for it?

Anonymous wrote:Yes, but as a private institution, they apparently can do that. The real question is why do so many Asians still want to attend and support an institution which is clearly biased against them? Is that really where you want to send your child? And do you really want to give them your money ? I don't, but alone that won't mean much.

Harvard didn’t allow blacks or women or Jews to attend during its history. Now it’s been discriminating against Asians. The correct response to discrimination is not to tell qualified applicants to go elsewhere. Separate but equal hasn’t been law in this country for a generAtion now.

I found this part pretty disturbing. It smacks of racial stereotyping.

Alumni interviewers give Asian-Americans personal ratings comparable to those of whites. But the admissions office gives them the worst scores of any racial group, often without even meeting them....

And

To avoid adopting a blatant quota system, Harvard introduced subjective criteria like character, personality and promise

--this is regarding how they discriminated against Jews years ago, and it is eerily similar to how they are using this approach with Asian American students today

And why did Harvard never complete their own study and release their findings?

Anonymous wrote:Yes, but as a private institution, they apparently can do that. The real question is why do so many Asians still want to attend and support an institution which is clearly biased against them? Is that really where you want to send your child? And do you really want to give them your money ? I don't, but alone that won't mean much.

No they cannot, since they receive Federal grants and loans. They are subject to the laws like everyone else.

To play devil’s advocate, why shouldn’t we take the admissions office at their word that on balance the Asians American students were lower on “positive personality,” likability, courage, kindness and being “widely respected”? The assumption here seems to be that obviously the students were wrongly interpreted and discriminated against, but not everyone has all the same qualities. And if Asian American parents disproportoonately are encouraging success in testing, grades, and music, why do we necessarily think they are also disproportionately focusing on kindness, courage, social skills, and leadership?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She's baaaack...

Oh, is there one particular person posting about Asian college admissions?

If so, thank you to that poster. I am grateful not only for the information, but also for your efforts to raise awareness.

+ 1

Anonymous wrote:Yes, but as a private institution, they apparently can do that. The real question is why do so many Asians still want to attend and support an institution which is clearly biased against them? Is that really where you want to send your child? And do you really want to give them your money ? I don't, but alone that won't mean much.

Harvard is objectively one of the best schools in the country, if not the world, and can open doors for the rest of a person's life in a way that few other schools can. Would you tell a black or gay person who was protesting discriminatory policies to just go somewhere else or encourage them to fight to change the system? How about women during the time that the Ivy League and other top schools were male only?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, but as a private institution, they apparently can do that. The real question is why do so many Asians still want to attend and support an institution which is clearly biased against them? Is that really where you want to send your child? And do you really want to give them your money ? I don't, but alone that won't mean much.

Because Harvard is not ONE person. The world-class research done there is led by people at the top of their fields, some of them Nobels, a lot of them foreigners, who couldn't care less what skin color or names their students have. Intellectually curious students want to go to the top institutions for that type of environment. Most top universities discriminate against Asians, probably unconsciously, but in a statistically significant way. This needs to come out in the open so that admission people are aware of their own unconscious biases. They need racial sensitivity training. They need to hire admissions officers who represent the applicants' ethnic origins. They cannot correct their prejudice if they don't know it's there.

But they're already grossly over-represted vis a vis their percent of the population.
They'll neve win this lawsuit.
Harvard's describing them as "standard strong" is probably accurate. High grades and test scores but otherwise not special enough for the limited number of spots at Harvard. That's why there's always UVA!

Is this a troll or are you actually this un-self aware?

? show me the error of my thinking. I'm open minded enough to listen. But I repeat they can never win this lawsuit because of holistic admissions. It is used to increase the number of black and Hispanic students, but comes at a cost to other groups.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, but as a private institution, they apparently can do that. The real question is why do so many Asians still want to attend and support an institution which is clearly biased against them? Is that really where you want to send your child? And do you really want to give them your money ? I don't, but alone that won't mean much.

Because Harvard is not ONE person. The world-class research done there is led by people at the top of their fields, some of them Nobels, a lot of them foreigners, who couldn't care less what skin color or names their students have. Intellectually curious students want to go to the top institutions for that type of environment. Most top universities discriminate against Asians, probably unconsciously, but in a statistically significant way. This needs to come out in the open so that admission people are aware of their own unconscious biases. They need racial sensitivity training. They need to hire admissions officers who represent the applicants' ethnic origins. They cannot correct their prejudice if they don't know it's there.

But they're already grossly over-represted vis a vis their percent of the population.
They'll neve win this lawsuit.
Harvard's describing them as "standard strong" is probably accurate. High grades and test scores but otherwise not special enough for the limited number of spots at Harvard. That's why there's always UVA!

Is this a troll or are you actually this un-self aware?

Did anyone read the last paragraph?

"What brought the Asian-American number down to roughly 18 percent, or about the actual share, was accounting for a category called “demographic,” the study found. This pushed up African-American and Hispanic numbers, while reducing whites and Asian-Americans."

This is exactly what's going on in higher education at all the better colleges and universities, especially privates.

If Asians have a case then so do whites.