Anonymous wrote:The numbers posted here are low. You do realize that Big law firms are in the middle of a salary war as we type and that the base salary for a 8th year Associate will now be 340k PLUS a special 25k summer bonus PLUS a "regular" year end bonus around 100k? Yes, total comp for a 8th year associate is hovering around 500k. When you figure that equity partners are many steps above 8th year associates in the food chain ....

Not all biglaw firms in DC can match this but the very best firms can and will.

https://abovethelaw.com/2018/06/sullivan-cromwell-matches-salaries-we-think/

Yes one of the reasons I find these salary wars so objectionable is in fact already associates take a big pay cut if they become counsel and in some cases even to become partner.

Anonymous wrote:Well, its not a salary if s/he’s an equity partner, but my guess is in the 300k-400k range.

At this range you’re not killing it. This seems like a mommy track partner draw in a lesser tier firm. If you want to eat choice red meat you have hunt the big game.

Personally I love the $250,000 SCOTUS clerk signing bonus. Annihilates any remaining law school debt.

so many more fun ways to make $500k gross. or better $500k on a K-1.

I was a partner for about a decade in a DC firm that most everyone would include on a short list of "elite" DC firms before retiring early a few years ago. When I made partner my gross compensation for the first year was $450k. I'd guess that we'd be talking about $600k for a first year partner at my firm today. Over the last decade the spread between compensation paid to senior partners -- and more specifically, to top rainmakers -- and new partners has increased dramatically as the big firms compete harder and harder to retain their top talent. The competition is fierce, truly fierce, and the top DC firms simply don't have the money to pay the big guns what they're (perceived to be) worth while at the same time raising junior partner compensation just as dramatically. The firms are also walking further and further away from lock step compensation based strictly on seniority. If you're a biglaw partner in DC in your 40s and 50s, let's say, you're definitely making very good money, but the range in compensation between you and your contemporaries might range to as wide as 3 or 4 to one depending on your book of business. Your billable hours are far less important than your portable business. This wasn't the case in DC firms a decade or two ago, but it definitely is now. The law business has changed -- in my personal opinion not for the better.

Also, while I know this has been said before, a junior partner quite often will find herself/himself bringing home less money than a senior associate. All employee benefits -- health and other insurance, social security/medicare tax payments, etc. -- are all the sole responsibility of the partner, not to mention mandatory capital contributions that you can either borrow to pay or that the firm will withhold from your compensation but you will STILL be taxed on. In my case, for example, the firm withheld nearly $1 million of compensation over the years for capital contributions, all of which I paid federal and state taxes on but never saw until I left the firm. On the bright side, because I had already paid taxes on this money, when I left the firm it was returned to me tax free.

The bottom line is that, while there is no question that junior partners in elite DC firms are handsomely compensated, the numbers are complicated and the business is changing.

Anonymous wrote:Does a person have to excel at all qualities in their profession to make partner? Do they have to be the smartest and fastest thinking attorney in the firm to have a chance?

No, in fact the best attorneys usually don’t make partner. Just suck up to the right partners and master the political game.

Bottom line: it’s ok pay for ridiculous hours.

Does a person have to excel at all qualities in their profession to make partner? Do they have to be the smartest and fastest thinking attorney in the firm to have a chance?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The numbers posted here are low. You do realize that Big law firms are in the middle of a salary war as we type and that the base salary for a 8th year Associate will now be 340k PLUS a special 25k summer bonus PLUS a "regular" year end bonus around 100k? Yes, total comp for a 8th year associate is hovering around 500k. When you figure that equity partners are many steps above 8th year associates in the food chain ....

Not all biglaw firms in DC can match this but the very best firms can and will.

https://abovethelaw.com/2018/06/sullivan-cromwell-matches-salaries-we-think/

I thought the law industry was dying? This contradicts that totally...

I heard vaguely somewhere that the legal industry tends to increase salaries right before a recession and slow down. Don't quote me on this though.

That has definitely happened a few times. One of the biggest issues is that the truly elite firms are separating themselves more and more from the rest of Biglaw. The former's PPP keeps going up, while many in the latter group struggle.

To date, anyone who wants to be seen as Biglaw has matched salaries, at least for junior associates. But this latest round might make more firms acknowledge that they can't compete with the Cravath's of the world and won't match the salary increase.

Which firms in DC are “truly elite”?

The ones that don’t pay the most. That’s for sure. You go to Williams Connolly for the prestige.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The numbers posted here are low. You do realize that Big law firms are in the middle of a salary war as we type and that the base salary for a 8th year Associate will now be 340k PLUS a special 25k summer bonus PLUS a "regular" year end bonus around 100k? Yes, total comp for a 8th year associate is hovering around 500k. When you figure that equity partners are many steps above 8th year associates in the food chain ....

Not all biglaw firms in DC can match this but the very best firms can and will.

https://abovethelaw.com/2018/06/sullivan-cromwell-matches-salaries-we-think/

I thought the law industry was dying? This contradicts that totally...

I heard vaguely somewhere that the legal industry tends to increase salaries right before a recession and slow down. Don't quote me on this though.

That has definitely happened a few times. One of the biggest issues is that the truly elite firms are separating themselves more and more from the rest of Biglaw. The former's PPP keeps going up, while many in the latter group struggle.

To date, anyone who wants to be seen as Biglaw has matched salaries, at least for junior associates. But this latest round might make more firms acknowledge that they can't compete with the Cravath's of the world and won't match the salary increase.

Which firms in DC are “truly elite”?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The numbers posted here are low. You do realize that Big law firms are in the middle of a salary war as we type and that the base salary for a 8th year Associate will now be 340k PLUS a special 25k summer bonus PLUS a "regular" year end bonus around 100k? Yes, total comp for a 8th year associate is hovering around 500k. When you figure that equity partners are many steps above 8th year associates in the food chain ....

Not all biglaw firms in DC can match this but the very best firms can and will.

https://abovethelaw.com/2018/06/sullivan-cromwell-matches-salaries-we-think/

You are not necessarily correct about a second or third year equity partner being many steps above an 8th year associate. First, you can't look at associate salary wars as an indication of what's happening in the partner ranks, because often times associate comp wars come at the expense of bigger partner comp increases, which is why you typically see reluctance on the part of many firms to follow the early movers until a critcial mass of firms has followed suit so that everyone else needs to as well.

Second, if, at the end of your associate ladder, your firm isn't making you partner but is putting you in a nonequity holding pen to look at you again in a few years, you often won't get a meaningful increase in compensation. That 8th year who was making $450k might get bumped to around $500k when they become whatever their firm calls the nonequity holding pen. If they stay there for two or three years, maybe they're making $550-580k when they get another look. If they make partner at that point, they'll see another jump, maybe to as much as $650-700k (which would be a generous jump). Depending on how your firm does it, you may be eligible for a share/comp increase in anywhere from one to three years afterward, but even with more frequent share reallocations, there tends not to be a lot of comp movement in the first few years while people are still establishing themselves and their books of business (because it's easier to hold back upfront and increase more later than to increase more upfront and then have to cut later) and might leave to go elsewhere once they have "partner" next to their name instead of "nonequity person."

Given that the associate salary ranges you put out are at the top of the scale, this points to around $700k being at the top of the pay scale for typical second and third year equity partners, which plenty of firms paying significantly less.

This is true at some firms, but not universally true. It really depends on a lot of factors including whether your firm uses a lock step partner compensation model or more of a eat what you kill model. There can be major variances. But some of the first posters here were saying throwing out 300-400k as a number -- that definitely undershoots it by a lot and even the 700k number might undershoot it at some firms.

Are you a partner at a firm that pays second and third year equity partners more than $700k?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The numbers posted here are low. You do realize that Big law firms are in the middle of a salary war as we type and that the base salary for a 8th year Associate will now be 340k PLUS a special 25k summer bonus PLUS a "regular" year end bonus around 100k? Yes, total comp for a 8th year associate is hovering around 500k. When you figure that equity partners are many steps above 8th year associates in the food chain ....

Not all biglaw firms in DC can match this but the very best firms can and will.

https://abovethelaw.com/2018/06/sullivan-cromwell-matches-salaries-we-think/

I thought the law industry was dying? This contradicts that totally...

I heard vaguely somewhere that the legal industry tends to increase salaries right before a recession and slow down. Don't quote me on this though.

Big firms increased salaries two years ago and there was no subsequent recession.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The numbers posted here are low. You do realize that Big law firms are in the middle of a salary war as we type and that the base salary for a 8th year Associate will now be 340k PLUS a special 25k summer bonus PLUS a "regular" year end bonus around 100k? Yes, total comp for a 8th year associate is hovering around 500k. When you figure that equity partners are many steps above 8th year associates in the food chain ....

Not all biglaw firms in DC can match this but the very best firms can and will.

https://abovethelaw.com/2018/06/sullivan-cromwell-matches-salaries-we-think/

You are not necessarily correct about a second or third year equity partner being many steps above an 8th year associate. First, you can't look at associate salary wars as an indication of what's happening in the partner ranks, because often times associate comp wars come at the expense of bigger partner comp increases, which is why you typically see reluctance on the part of many firms to follow the early movers until a critcial mass of firms has followed suit so that everyone else needs to as well.

Second, if, at the end of your associate ladder, your firm isn't making you partner but is putting you in a nonequity holding pen to look at you again in a few years, you often won't get a meaningful increase in compensation. That 8th year who was making $450k might get bumped to around $500k when they become whatever their firm calls the nonequity holding pen. If they stay there for two or three years, maybe they're making $550-580k when they get another look. If they make partner at that point, they'll see another jump, maybe to as much as $650-700k (which would be a generous jump). Depending on how your firm does it, you may be eligible for a share/comp increase in anywhere from one to three years afterward, but even with more frequent share reallocations, there tends not to be a lot of comp movement in the first few years while people are still establishing themselves and their books of business (because it's easier to hold back upfront and increase more later than to increase more upfront and then have to cut later) and might leave to go elsewhere once they have "partner" next to their name instead of "nonequity person."

Given that the associate salary ranges you put out are at the top of the scale, this points to around $700k being at the top of the pay scale for typical second and third year equity partners, which plenty of firms paying significantly less.

This is true at some firms, but not universally true. It really depends on a lot of factors including whether your firm uses a lock step partner compensation model or more of a eat what you kill model. There can be major variances. But some of the first posters here were saying throwing out 300-400k as a number -- that definitely undershoots it by a lot and even the 700k number might undershoot it at some firms.

Anonymous wrote:The numbers posted here are low. You do realize that Big law firms are in the middle of a salary war as we type and that the base salary for a 8th year Associate will now be 340k PLUS a special 25k summer bonus PLUS a "regular" year end bonus around 100k? Yes, total comp for a 8th year associate is hovering around 500k. When you figure that equity partners are many steps above 8th year associates in the food chain ....

Not all biglaw firms in DC can match this but the very best firms can and will.

https://abovethelaw.com/2018/06/sullivan-cromwell-matches-salaries-we-think/

You are not necessarily correct about a second or third year equity partner being many steps above an 8th year associate. First, you can't look at associate salary wars as an indication of what's happening in the partner ranks, because often times associate comp wars come at the expense of bigger partner comp increases, which is why you typically see reluctance on the part of many firms to follow the early movers until a critcial mass of firms has followed suit so that everyone else needs to as well.

Second, if, at the end of your associate ladder, your firm isn't making you partner but is putting you in a nonequity holding pen to look at you again in a few years, you often won't get a meaningful increase in compensation. That 8th year who was making $450k might get bumped to around $500k when they become whatever their firm calls the nonequity holding pen. If they stay there for two or three years, maybe they're making $550-580k when they get another look. If they make partner at that point, they'll see another jump, maybe to as much as $650-700k (which would be a generous jump). Depending on how your firm does it, you may be eligible for a share/comp increase in anywhere from one to three years afterward, but even with more frequent share reallocations, there tends not to be a lot of comp movement in the first few years while people are still establishing themselves and their books of business (because it's easier to hold back upfront and increase more later than to increase more upfront and then have to cut later) and might leave to go elsewhere once they have "partner" next to their name instead of "nonequity person."

Given that the associate salary ranges you put out are at the top of the scale, this points to around $700k being at the top of the pay scale for typical second and third year equity partners, which plenty of firms paying significantly less.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The numbers posted here are low. You do realize that Big law firms are in the middle of a salary war as we type and that the base salary for a 8th year Associate will now be 340k PLUS a special 25k summer bonus PLUS a "regular" year end bonus around 100k? Yes, total comp for a 8th year associate is hovering around 500k. When you figure that equity partners are many steps above 8th year associates in the food chain ....

Not all biglaw firms in DC can match this but the very best firms can and will.

https://abovethelaw.com/2018/06/sullivan-cromwell-matches-salaries-we-think/

I thought the law industry was dying? This contradicts that totally...

I heard vaguely somewhere that the legal industry tends to increase salaries right before a recession and slow down. Don't quote me on this though.

That has definitely happened a few times. One of the biggest issues is that the truly elite firms are separating themselves more and more from the rest of Biglaw. The former's PPP keeps going up, while many in the latter group struggle.

To date, anyone who wants to be seen as Biglaw has matched salaries, at least for junior associates. But this latest round might make more firms acknowledge that they can't compete with the Cravath's of the world and won't match the salary increase.