Anonymous
04/13/2018 11:01
Subject: Re:Law school or USPTO?
Anonymous wrote:I’m a former examiner now big law patent partner. I started at the PTO and going to GW law at night. Then switched to the firm after about 18 months (both paid a good portion of law school tuition). But I unless you want to stay for life (and I doubt you will), do not stay a day over 2 years at the PTO. From a law firm’s perspective, any longer starts becoming a liability rather than as asset. It’s a great career and you have lots of nice options. Congrats.
Curious about the 2 year limit. Does it show some type of weakness in a candidate if they stay longer than 2 years?
Anonymous
04/13/2018 09:47
Subject: Law school or USPTO?
OP - Does PTO actually pay for you to go law school? If so, when does that kick in (as is, is there a waiting period after you join)?
For the lawyers who posted, are part-time law degrees considered "inferior" to regular full time degrees?
For the lawyers who posted, are part-time law degrees considered "inferior" to regular full time degrees?
Anonymous
04/13/2018 09:26
Subject: Re:Law school or USPTO?
Anonymous wrote:DO NOT STAY AT THE PTO LONGER THEN 2 YEARS.
NEVER TRUST SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAN AND THEN.
Anonymous
04/12/2018 15:18
Subject: Law school or USPTO?
Anonymous wrote:I graduated last year from a top 20 Eng school. Have a job with a small company in the DC area. I recently got a job with the USPTO. Pay will be lower. I also recently took the LSAT and did reasonably well. I can easily do much better on the LSAT with some prep and get into a top tier Law school.
A family friend in his early thirties is a Patent Examiner (supervisor), is a GS-15 and makes the max salary for that level. He also got the PTO to pay for his law degree and is an attorney as well. He strongly recommends that I take the PTO job, get the government to pay for my law degree, work for a few years at the PTO until I get about 10 years or so of experience and then move to private law. He thinks I can avoid the long hours that fresh law school grads have to put in and I can go into a law firm at a senior level. Admittedly he doesn't know anyone who has done that but has heard of a couple of people who have done that.
I can go either way. Law school payments are not an issue. My parents will pay.
What should I do? Go the easy route (PTO, free law school, etc) or take the LSAT again, get into a good law school and fo into private law (I understand that I may not get into a Top school or get a high paying job but at this point I need to set a course)?
FYI, plenty of well educated examiners are let go during probationary years or let go once production ramps up. Experience at PTO is HIGHLY dependent on who is signing cases.
Anonymous
04/12/2018 11:29
Subject: Re:Law school or USPTO?
I am a partner at an IP firm, so I have a lot of first hand experience with this situation.
My advice is take the PTO job so that you have that experience on your resume. Go to law school while at the PTO. GW is best for this locally and has strong IP program. (Try hard to do well enough to go to GW or Gtown. Going to GMU or AU means you have to do much better in law school to even have a chance at these jobs). We and other similar firms do a lot of hiring from there. Do well in law school. (This is still important for good jobs). After first year of law school, consider applying for job working during the school year at the firm where you are offered a summer job. You can make good $$ doing this and get a head start at the firm. As others have said, a few years at PTO is good, too many is bad. You will still have to start low on the law firm totem pole (your colleague is nuts if he thinks you can routinely go from PTO to partnership by skipping associate years) so don't do it if you don't actually want to practice law. If you do all of these things you can have a job in 4-5 years that pays $150K+ at a firm with a path to move forward.
My advice is take the PTO job so that you have that experience on your resume. Go to law school while at the PTO. GW is best for this locally and has strong IP program. (Try hard to do well enough to go to GW or Gtown. Going to GMU or AU means you have to do much better in law school to even have a chance at these jobs). We and other similar firms do a lot of hiring from there. Do well in law school. (This is still important for good jobs). After first year of law school, consider applying for job working during the school year at the firm where you are offered a summer job. You can make good $$ doing this and get a head start at the firm. As others have said, a few years at PTO is good, too many is bad. You will still have to start low on the law firm totem pole (your colleague is nuts if he thinks you can routinely go from PTO to partnership by skipping associate years) so don't do it if you don't actually want to practice law. If you do all of these things you can have a job in 4-5 years that pays $150K+ at a firm with a path to move forward.
Anonymous
04/12/2018 11:23
Subject: Re:Law school or USPTO?
I’m a former examiner now big law patent partner. I started at the PTO and going to GW law at night. Then switched to the firm after about 18 months (both paid a good portion of law school tuition). But I unless you want to stay for life (and I doubt you will), do not stay a day over 2 years at the PTO. From a law firm’s perspective, any longer starts becoming a liability rather than as asset. It’s a great career and you have lots of nice options. Congrats.
Anonymous
04/12/2018 11:00
Subject: Re:Law school or USPTO?
Do both. Law school at night, that's what I did while working my engineering job. Good LSAT score should get you some scholarship money from non-T14 schools with night programs. Then decide after you've been to law school if PTO is ideal, a patent practice at a firm, or just law in general... why decide now? You can even transfer from a part-time to full time program after the first year if you decide to go "all in". Working for the government as an engineer is very different from working at a law firm and even different than working as a government lawyer, so you'll have to balance that. Patent examiners after their initial period get an enormous amount of flexibility on where to live and work, but you might not want to do that for the rest of your life no matter what the flexibility.
Anonymous
04/12/2018 10:41
Subject: Law school or USPTO?
Anonymous wrote:Patent examiner here. Work life balance is great! Working from home all the time, flexible hours, so I can handle kids activities and work easily. I have a law degree but still prefer staying at PTO because of this reason. But this is just me.
You can take the PTO job to see if you like patent work. If you like it, maybe go to part time law school and have PTO pay the tuition. A couple of years examiner experience is a plus. But I heard staying at PTO too long won’t help. If you don’t like patent work, you can retake the LSAT and go to some top law school full time trying other directions.
This, but it really depends on your life priority. If you end goal is partner of a big firm, the I'd take the advice of most here and get into the best school you can and gun from there. But if you're looking to have a comfortable life with kids while being an active parent, go the USPTO route.
Anonymous
04/12/2018 10:10
Subject: Law school or USPTO?
Patent examiner here. Work life balance is great! Working from home all the time, flexible hours, so I can handle kids activities and work easily. I have a law degree but still prefer staying at PTO because of this reason. But this is just me.
You can take the PTO job to see if you like patent work. If you like it, maybe go to part time law school and have PTO pay the tuition. A couple of years examiner experience is a plus. But I heard staying at PTO too long won’t help. If you don’t like patent work, you can retake the LSAT and go to some top law school full time trying other directions.
You can take the PTO job to see if you like patent work. If you like it, maybe go to part time law school and have PTO pay the tuition. A couple of years examiner experience is a plus. But I heard staying at PTO too long won’t help. If you don’t like patent work, you can retake the LSAT and go to some top law school full time trying other directions.
Anonymous
04/12/2018 06:17
Subject: Law school or USPTO?
Does your alma mater have an online alumni network/directory? If so, search for any alums who are patent attorneys in this area and ask if you can have a call or coffee with them to discuss transitioning into patent law. Take it seriously (Work with their schedule, don’t flake out).
In my experience, patent law, big firm only, on the pharmaceutical side, too much time at the PTO can be problematic. It may be best to do a few years there, then move to a firm that will pay for law school while you work there. Although your parents will pay, is getting increasingly hard to get a job in the patent field at a firm without some experience.
I don’t think 10 years at the PTO means you’d come in as a mid-level or senior associate, because Examiner skills, while possible helpful for basic patent prosecution, don’t equate to the skills you need/would develop as a patent attorney.
Also, even if you were able to come into a firm at a more senior level after firing big firms, coming in as a more senior attorney doesn’t mean you don’t have to work the crazy hours the young law school grads. You may have more control over your schedule, but it’s still a lot of work.
Short answer- talk to some actual practing patent attorneys about the best path forward for you.
In my experience, patent law, big firm only, on the pharmaceutical side, too much time at the PTO can be problematic. It may be best to do a few years there, then move to a firm that will pay for law school while you work there. Although your parents will pay, is getting increasingly hard to get a job in the patent field at a firm without some experience.
I don’t think 10 years at the PTO means you’d come in as a mid-level or senior associate, because Examiner skills, while possible helpful for basic patent prosecution, don’t equate to the skills you need/would develop as a patent attorney.
Also, even if you were able to come into a firm at a more senior level after firing big firms, coming in as a more senior attorney doesn’t mean you don’t have to work the crazy hours the young law school grads. You may have more control over your schedule, but it’s still a lot of work.
Short answer- talk to some actual practing patent attorneys about the best path forward for you.
Anonymous
04/12/2018 04:41
Subject: Law school or USPTO?
Anonymous wrote:I graduated last year from a top 20 Eng school. Have a job with a small company in the DC area. I recently got a job with the USPTO. Pay will be lower. I also recently took the LSAT and did reasonably well. I can easily do much better on the LSAT with some prep and get into a top tier Law school.
A family friend in his early thirties is a Patent Examiner (supervisor), is a GS-15 and makes the max salary for that level. He also got the PTO to pay for his law degree and is an attorney as well. He strongly recommends that I take the PTO job, get the government to pay for my law degree, work for a few years at the PTO until I get about 10 years or so of experience and then move to private law. He thinks I can avoid the long hours that fresh law school grads have to put in and I can go into a law firm at a senior level. Admittedly he doesn't know anyone who has done that but has heard of a couple of people who have done that.
I can go either way. Law school payments are not an issue. My parents will pay.
What should I do? Go the easy route (PTO, free law school, etc) or take the LSAT again, get into a good law school and fo into private law (I understand that I may not get into a Top school or get a high paying job but at this point I need to set a course)?
You have no idea if it’s true that you can do better on the last and definitely get into a top tier school.