Anonymous wrote:Hmmm... Thanks for that comment, but I still can't really see how this plays out in real life. So, at a montessori school, if a kid is playing with (working on?) a puzzle, and decides to pretend that the pieces are dinosaurs, are they corrected?

This was our experience at Aiden Montessori, yes. Our child was corrected by the teacher and also by other kids, often older due to the mixed agree classes. He was also not allowed to use or touch a toy unless he had first been instructed in its proper use. It was not a good fit for us.

Anonymous wrote:The actual Montessori part is not ‘guided pkay’. It’s work. That is literally what it is called.

My opinion is kids should play and socialize. The least amount of academics the better. And Montessori is extremely academic and tends to draw a certain type of parent to it. One that is competitive about early academics.

They call it work because play is the job of children. The kids take it seriously. I hardly think a puzzle is work.

The actual Montessori part is not ‘guided pkay’. It’s work. That is literally what it is called.

My opinion is kids should play and socialize. The least amount of academics the better. And Montessori is extremely academic and tends to draw a certain type of parent to it. One that is competitive about early academics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Judging from my friends' kids who go to Montessori, they leave significantly ahead in academics. By middle elementary school, though, where anyone went to preschool is irrelevant.

We got a student from a Montessori school in my first grade classroom this year. He is significantly behind the other students in reading. I talked to his teacher and she said that students get to choose what to do and he mostly wanted to do math and science so that's what he did. Nobody made him do anything else so he didn't. Yeah, that's not how the world works kiddo. He had a hard adjustment because he was used to do what he wanted all of the time.

That’s not really an argument against Montessori, more an argument against your classroom / teaching style. Sorry you’re so rigid and unskilled st differentiation.

In fairness to PP, she was responding to a poster who said Montessori was better academically. So I think her response was relevant, albeit highly anectdotal.

I too think you need to take with a grain of salt posters who are basing their advice on a one day visit. We did a one day visit at NCRC, DCUM’s most favored preschool. During the visit we saw a teacher continually interrupt and redirect a student in a way that seemed pushy and unnecessary. I won’t even draw a global conclusion about NCRC from my short interaction. I think it’s a very good school with skilled teachers and this one teacher needed more training or was having a bad day. I definitely wouldn’t draw a conclusion about all play-based preschools based on this one interaction. Talk to parents at the particular school you are interested in, do your own observation, and be prepared to switch schools if it’s not a good fit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Judging from my friends' kids who go to Montessori, they leave significantly ahead in academics. By middle elementary school, though, where anyone went to preschool is irrelevant.

We got a student from a Montessori school in my first grade classroom this year. He is significantly behind the other students in reading. I talked to his teacher and she said that students get to choose what to do and he mostly wanted to do math and science so that's what he did. Nobody made him do anything else so he didn't. Yeah, that's not how the world works kiddo. He had a hard adjustment because he was used to do what he wanted all of the time.

That’s not really an argument against Montessori, more an argument against your classroom / teaching style. Sorry you’re so rigid and unskilled st differentiation.

Frankly, many of the ideas used in play based preschools have their roots in Montessori. The latest research about how young children learn through play is through something coined, "guided play."

https://bold.expert/the-learning-benefits-of-guided-play/

Montessori is actually guided play, but sometimes the adult is guiding the play and sometimes the materials. As we research Early Education more, many researchers are finding that typical free play does not actually teach the kids. Guided play is used more frequently in Finland than in preschools here, and many more day cares and preschools are becoming heavily academic in a teacher controlled way. What I personally like about Montessori is that it allows children to academically excel, while still giving them social experiences and the ability to control and choose their work. Unlike many academic preschools, where children aren't allowed choice, or free play programs where research is showing kids don't many strides.

My son is thriving in Montessori. Every school is different, but I cannot imagine a room full of somber 3-5 year olds. When I e observed the classroom there is an excited buzz--kids are fully engaged (solo or in pairs), and there is definitely fun happening. DS comes come chattering about how he "played on the 100s board" or "made snack for his friends."

The Montessori piece is 3 hours in the morning. He has 6 additional hours of before/after care that is free play/outside time/pretend, and his evenings and weekends are 100% free play. I can give him play based at home. I can't give him Montessori (at least, not without a lot more work).

I don't think there is a wrong choice in philosophy. Pick the school that works for your child.

There are a couple super outspoken anti-Montessori folks who comment each time about what a soul sucking experience Montessori seemed like to them in their 1 day snapshot, but I don't get it. I could say the same about multiple schools we toured, play based, academic focused, and Montessori. The play based one had a teacher barking out orders, the academic one was chaos, and the first Montessori we toured had a woman dinging a bell and shouting, "Montessori voices!" to try to quell the screeching kids. None of those are indicative of the philosophy, just poor classroom management/teaching styles.

The kids in the Montessori classroom were "calm" alright. They looked sad, lonely and tired. They looked like they were high on something. Walked slowly and seemed to be on lalaland. One kid out of 20 cracked a smile while playing tea time, and we were there for 30 minutes. The tea cups were the only toys there. It was the most miserable classroom I've ever seen.
Fine, the kids were not high, just that Montessori is a better fit for the calmer crowd.
Few students noticed us, nobody talked loud, nobody ran or even walked fast. It was like slow motion horror movie. Never seen anything like that. Not typical for 3-5 crowd.
Play-based is what Finland has. Play, more play, some art, some singing, dancing and more play. No ABCs until school starts at 7. You know your child the best and learn most you can about Montessori. Wasn't a good fit for us. We don't mind waiting to learn life skills and letters and numbers. Where's the rush.
Check out Italy and other countries that might still be using Montessori method.
http://www.businessinsider.com/pisa-worldwide-ranking-of-math-science-reading-skills-2016-12

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son did a trial day in a Montessori classroom and the teacher said he was playing with the broom. She said he was pretending it was a leaf blower. She was unhappy with this and also unhappy with his "unwillingness" to use it as demonstrated "multiple times." I tried not to burst out laughing and nodded solemnly but it was completely ridiculous. He was 2 years old. I enrolled him a play based preschool where he could pretend all he liked.

These programs give Montessori a bad name. At my kid’s Montessori program, I’ve seen him pretend to be a turtle, I’ve watched kids turn brooms into leaf blowers, I’ve seen kids talk about how they’re princesses or dinosaurs. They’ve never been ‘corrected.’

If the teacher is trying to show the kid how to sweep, and the kid is misusing the broom, that’s different. If you think that a teacher correcting a kid when teaching him how to sweep is bad, then that’s fine but I just have a different POV... I find that instruction helpful.

Unhappy just sounds like someone who doesn't really understand kids that age. It has nothing to do with Montessori. They have something called "proper use" of materials, but they don't really make that a thing until kids are 3+.

First, it depends on whether the Montessori you are considering is AMS or AMI. AMS is more open about the kinds of materials, AMI requires the original materials and more rigorously trained guides.

In general, the idea of Montessori is that children learn best when given independence, choice, and "real life" things to do. There is a strong emphasis on practical life skills and sensorial experiences. For example, my 3 year old was sewing with a real needle and thread. I didn't know he could do that until we went somewhere which had that as a craft and I tried to give him burlap and a plastic needle. He told me he knew how to use the real one, and threaded it himself and started to sew in a straight line. He also really liked things like a texture box, which you use by putting a blindfold on and matching different cloths by touch alone.

They also have art tables, crafts, puzzles, dollhouses, and musical toys -- children are free to use those as much as they want. The only rule is that if someone else is working with it you have to respect that. There is some kind of developmental theory behind why they do this, it builds concentration and lessens insecurity. One of my friends' kids was at a playbased classroom and he literally would not go to the bathroom there because he was worried that people would play with his toys while he was gone. (Extreme, I know . . . but anyway, I think there's something to the idea that it's very hard for kids to feel like someone else can swoop in and take their stuff.)

The "academic" stuff doesn't start until they are in the mixed-age classroom. It's all very sensory based. Like tracing sandpaper letters, counting with beads, geography with large map puzzles. But it's pretty cool what they build up to. My 4 year old reads well and can do addition/subtraction into the thousands. This is all self-guided, based on the interest of your child. Others his age or older are not interested in reading/writing and hence do not do it at all.

A final thing about Montessori vs play-based is that most Montessoris adhere to the philosophy that a child cannot fully distinguish between reality and fantasy before age 6, so it's important to keep things as reality based as possible so they don't develop confusion as they are forming concepts about how things work. So you won't see fantasy play encouraged (although it certainly happens) and there will be an emphasis on things like watching plants grow, puzzles that show the different parts of animals vs. cartoons, that kind of thing.

Anonymous wrote:
We got a student from a Montessori school in my first grade classroom this year. He is significantly behind the other students in reading. I talked to his teacher and she said that students get to choose what to do and he mostly wanted to do math and science so that's what he did. Nobody made him do anything else so he didn't. Yeah, that's not how the world works kiddo. He had a hard adjustment because he was used to do what he wanted all of the time.

That's not how Montessori is supposed to work either. The teachers should keep careful track of each student's progress in each subject area and guide/steer the student to ensure progress across all areas over time, using various tactics that allow for some free choice within certain parameters. That doesn't mean the progress has to be equal in all areas or that there will be no students lagging behind ever in any area. But it's not supposed to be a laissez faire system or anything close to that.

Anonymous wrote:My son did a trial day in a Montessori classroom and the teacher said he was playing with the broom. She said he was pretending it was a leaf blower. She was unhappy with this and also unhappy with his "unwillingness" to use it as demonstrated "multiple times." I tried not to burst out laughing and nodded solemnly but it was completely ridiculous. He was 2 years old. I enrolled him a play based preschool where he could pretend all he liked.

These programs give Montessori a bad name. At my kid’s Montessori program, I’ve seen him pretend to be a turtle, I’ve watched kids turn brooms into leaf blowers, I’ve seen kids talk about how they’re princesses or dinosaurs. They’ve never been ‘corrected.’

If the teacher is trying to show the kid how to sweep, and the kid is misusing the broom, that’s different. If you think that a teacher correcting a kid when teaching him how to sweep is bad, then that’s fine but I just have a different POV... I find that instruction helpful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmmm... Thanks for that comment, but I still can't really see how this plays out in real life. So, at a Montessori school, if a kid is playing with (working on?) a puzzle, and decides to pretend that the pieces are dinosaurs, are they corrected?

In my experience touring a local Montessori - yes. My 2-year-old took down a set of blocks and began stacking them, and the teacher quickly swooped in and corrected her, saying that the blocks were only for laying out in a specific pattern. Same thing with different instruments on a shelf - 2 YO attempted to ring one of the lined-up chimes with a xylophone mallet and the teacher removed it from her hand. YMMV, but this was a dealbreaker for me - we're sticking with play-based all the way. I'm sure some Montessori schools are more or less strict, but I didn't like the rigidity at all, especially for such young children.

Another quirk: "true" Montessori is mixed age classes of 3-5 year olds (3-year learning cycle). A friend of mine in CA felt that in practice, this meant the older kids in her child's program completely steamrolled the younger ones, "helping" them by drawing over their artwork, writing her child's name for her (and spelling it wrong), etc. I think it would take a truly skilled teacher (and an equal mix of 3s, 4s, and 5s in the class) to make this work - but generally in this area, the classes skew either young or old.

In my experience with a kid actually IN a Montessori program, no. There are some instructional materials — NOT toys — which are designed to teach math and language. It is preschool. But there are also toys (example: legos, farm animals, balls, whatever) and if a kid at my school is playing with the legos and pretending they’re rainbow unicorns or whatever the teacher doesn’t intervene. This PP probably saw a kid misusing one of the sensorial block kits, which are for math instruction.

Like other posters noted, Montessori programs are scheduled with chunks of work time and chunks of play time, and for 3-5 year olds work time is to do the educational stuff but play time is for play, same as any other daycare.

As for the steamrolling, it certainly could happen but in practice generally the older kids have their older kid buddies and the younger kids have their younger kid buddies. Older kids show younger kids how to do ‘life skills’ stuff, like washing dishes, but aren’t involved in most of the work period instruction.

I don’t know anything about play based in practice so can’t comment on that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Judging from my friends' kids who go to Montessori, they leave significantly ahead in academics. By middle elementary school, though, where anyone went to preschool is irrelevant.

We got a student from a Montessori school in my first grade classroom this year. He is significantly behind the other students in reading. I talked to his teacher and she said that students get to choose what to do and he mostly wanted to do math and science so that's what he did. Nobody made him do anything else so he didn't. Yeah, that's not how the world works kiddo. He had a hard adjustment because he was used to do what he wanted all of the time.

You're complaining because a kid can't read before starting FIRST grade? When you know for a fact that he must be well ahead of the other kids in math and science?