Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s normal. I don’t really like calling 2nd graders mean girls, because I think it’s really rare that a second grader is actually a mean girl (as a 7th or 8tb grader would be) - it’s more that 2nd graders are pretty clueless about friendship & social skills. They are all struggling, trying things on, saying dumb stuff. ..not a lot of it is calculated exclusionary mean girl bullying like in middle school. It’s more kids struggling to figure out social norms & acceptable behavior.

So yes, tell your DD to take a break from anyone being mean. If they seem kinder the next week, then go for it, play with them again.

+1000 to this and to the comment that this not isolated to girls. Gah it’s pretty sexist we make these conclusions about girls only.

This is almost always kids building social skills and trying to feel things out rather than malicious intent. They’re learning to be human.

NP, I agree with all of this!

NP, I disagree with all of this. It is typically seen more often with girls than boys and it’s almost always behavior modeled by their mean-girl moms who never grew up. These 8-yr olds aren’t “figuring out” social skills and coming up with these behaviors out of thin air, they’re emulating their mothers. The kids displaying these behaviors at 8 almost always end up being the “mean girls” in middle school. I’m a die-hard feminist and this isn’t sexism, it’s reality. It’s nurture, not nature.

Have you hung out with an eight year old boy lately? They can be real jerks. Usually it’s in a less sophisticated way because their social skills are generally a little behind girls.

I agree. I have both a boy and a girl. I am much more worried about his capacity to be mean to classmates than his sister. Obviously, they are different people, but they way they interact has made me realize my boy child will need a lot more "training" on empathy than my daughter.

Same. My daughter understands social interactions so much more than my boy. Sometimes, she and her friends use this understanding in obnoxious ways. My boy does not. But he also does not notice people's feelings in the same way that my daughter does; she's capable of noticing and helping people much more than he is. There's a flipside to social awareness, and in little kids who are still figuring out how the world works, sometimes that shows up as testing out being a jerk (I HATE the term "mean girl"), or manipulative, or whatever. My son, while generally a lovely guy, sometimes goes too far with the sports trash talk and hurts his friends' feelings without meaning to, and has to be educated about what he did, why it hurts, why you shouldn't do it. (Not to mention that boys tend to be much more physical when they're angry than girls, at least in my experience.)

In short, I think so much of the "mean girl" conversation can be attributed to misogyny and the idea that boys are just cooler/nicer/more awesome than girls, when the truth is that normal human experimentation and aggression comes out in different ways in different kids.

To the PP blaming mean moms--yeah, maybe some girls (and boys...?) are copying their rude or wannabe-leader parents. I just think there's a lot of run of the mill social learning going on and sometimes it's quite ugly.

Anonymous wrote:2nd grade mom here. I would call the school out on this. My school has specific lessons on being a good friend, not excluding others, what to do if someone says they don't want to play with you, bullying, teasing. They have a counselor come in for a lesson once a week actually. I thought it was overkill, but we don't have any issues like what you've mentioned. It also cut down on fake reports of "bullying" because kids were taught what it really was. We also have a "friend bench" that you can sit on if you are feeling lonely and others will come play with you. Kids are also taught to look for kids who are by themselves and invite them to play. They get points and rewarded for it by teachers who see.

Anyways, I think this is a school issue and I'd talk to the teacher.

What school does that? Wonderful strategies to encourage inclusivity and friendship.

2nd grade mom here. I would call the school out on this. My school has specific lessons on being a good friend, not excluding others, what to do if someone says they don't want to play with you, bullying, teasing. They have a counselor come in for a lesson once a week actually. I thought it was overkill, but we don't have any issues like what you've mentioned. It also cut down on fake reports of "bullying" because kids were taught what it really was. We also have a "friend bench" that you can sit on if you are feeling lonely and others will come play with you. Kids are also taught to look for kids who are by themselves and invite them to play. They get points and rewarded for it by teachers who see.

Anyways, I think this is a school issue and I'd talk to the teacher.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s normal. I don’t really like calling 2nd graders mean girls, because I think it’s really rare that a second grader is actually a mean girl (as a 7th or 8tb grader would be) - it’s more that 2nd graders are pretty clueless about friendship & social skills. They are all struggling, trying things on, saying dumb stuff. ..not a lot of it is calculated exclusionary mean girl bullying like in middle school. It’s more kids struggling to figure out social norms & acceptable behavior.

So yes, tell your DD to take a break from anyone being mean. If they seem kinder the next week, then go for it, play with them again.

+1000 to this and to the comment that this not isolated to girls. Gah it’s pretty sexist we make these conclusions about girls only.

This is almost always kids building social skills and trying to feel things out rather than malicious intent. They’re learning to be human.

NP, I agree with all of this!

NP, I disagree with all of this. It is typically seen more often with girls than boys and it’s almost always behavior modeled by their mean-girl moms who never grew up. These 8-yr olds aren’t “figuring out” social skills and coming up with these behaviors out of thin air, they’re emulating their mothers. The kids displaying these behaviors at 8 almost always end up being the “mean girls” in middle school. I’m a die-hard feminist and this isn’t sexism, it’s reality. It’s nurture, not nature.

Have you hung out with an eight year old boy lately? They can be real jerks. Usually it’s in a less sophisticated way because their social skills are generally a little behind girls.

I agree. I have both a boy and a girl. I am much more worried about his capacity to be mean to classmates than his sister. Obviously, they are different people, but they way they interact has made me realize my boy child will need a lot more "training" on empathy than my daughter.

Anonymous wrote:It started in k just a couple things and has increased every year (my DD is in third). Honestly They all do it to some extent or go along with it but they do figure it out. My daughter gets extremely frustrated with friends who are very possessive (e.g. can’t play with me if you play with Larla) and I don’t think has ever done much of that herself but she probably would not tell me if she did! I think she’s done a good job just taking space from girls who were being controlling or unkind and has also give second chances and that’s really worked out - a girl she had a hard time with in first is now one of her closest friends.

I did get the American girls books and my daughter liked them. I think it normalized to her that this happens a lot and isn’t a judgment on her or her friends. There is a metaphor in one book that friendship can be like a dance and sometimes you might feel very close to one person and then later you might not feel so close but that’s ok. That has really helped her not feel like issues are going to be the end of all her friendships. But honestly if your daughter isn’t bothered, you might just want to wait and see.

This is important. I also gently discourage any sort of One True BFF thinking. While one single best friend can be a wonderful thing, it also is putting a lot of your social eggs into one basket. That can get tricky when your BFF wants to play or spend time with others, or when your kid wants to do that. I encourage a broad range of friendships for this reason. Do some favorite friends boil to the top every year? Yes. But the old friends generally stay in the orbit and that's great too. I'd bet a few of these will shake out to be longer friendships and some will fade. But I think sometimes moms are the people pressuring their kids to have One BFF Forever, and that's not always a great dynamic for kids who are growing and learning and changing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s normal. I don’t really like calling 2nd graders mean girls, because I think it’s really rare that a second grader is actually a mean girl (as a 7th or 8tb grader would be) - it’s more that 2nd graders are pretty clueless about friendship & social skills. They are all struggling, trying things on, saying dumb stuff. ..not a lot of it is calculated exclusionary mean girl bullying like in middle school. It’s more kids struggling to figure out social norms & acceptable behavior.

So yes, tell your DD to take a break from anyone being mean. If they seem kinder the next week, then go for it, play with them again.

+1000 to this and to the comment that this not isolated to girls. Gah it’s pretty sexist we make these conclusions about girls only.

This is almost always kids building social skills and trying to feel things out rather than malicious intent. They’re learning to be human.

NP, I agree with all of this!

NP, I disagree with all of this. It is typically seen more often with girls than boys and it’s almost always behavior modeled by their mean-girl moms who never grew up. These 8-yr olds aren’t “figuring out” social skills and coming up with these behaviors out of thin air, they’re emulating their mothers. The kids displaying these behaviors at 8 almost always end up being the “mean girls” in middle school. I’m a die-hard feminist and this isn’t sexism, it’s reality. It’s nurture, not nature.

Have you hung out with an eight year old boy lately? They can be real jerks. Usually it’s in a less sophisticated way because their social skills are generally a little behind girls.

Anonymous wrote:American Girl has some great books on friendship too if you want to provide DD with some additional material. About what makes a good friend and how it's important to have many friendship circles (different groups of friends).

+1. The American Girl books on these topics are excellent. Both substantively helpful, and also very helpful for just normalizing the experience and helping her understand she's not the only one who experiences these things.

I also agree that by age 8 or so, so second or third grade, it's starting to shift from figuring out social norms (which does start in preschool) to modeling behavior they see. From mom, but also from older siblings, peers, media, etc. By age 10 or so, most kids know exactly what they're doing and how it's going to impact others, unless they're behind emotionally (which is common in girls with ADHD). I've been a Girl Scout leader for that age range for years, and have experienced so many cohorts of girls. Some second graders are still pretty clueless and are either oblivious or still making mistakes because they're learning. Others really are testing out relational aggression and I have to spend a LOT of time with those cohorts on teaching and practicing healthy social skills. The good news is they're still really young and are receptive to learning, but if OP's DD is in a small private, she may not have an easy time avoiding the dynamics.

The best protection from relational aggression is if OP's DD can have a wider range of friends. Does the school do lunch bunches or teach socio-emotional skills directly? Since OP knows the kids well, it may be a good idea to encourage friendships with some girls that seem to stay away from the dynamics.

And to those who say it's genetic or inherent in girls, I couldn't disagree more. Girls are generally (not always) very emotionally and socially aware, which can lead to some of the kindest, most thoughtful, considerate behavior. It makes my heart burst with pride when I see that genuine empathy and selflessness between girls. It can also lead to some pretty hurtful behavior. But like a PP said, that is nurture, not nature.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s normal. I don’t really like calling 2nd graders mean girls, because I think it’s really rare that a second grader is actually a mean girl (as a 7th or 8tb grader would be) - it’s more that 2nd graders are pretty clueless about friendship & social skills. They are all struggling, trying things on, saying dumb stuff. ..not a lot of it is calculated exclusionary mean girl bullying like in middle school. It’s more kids struggling to figure out social norms & acceptable behavior.

So yes, tell your DD to take a break from anyone being mean. If they seem kinder the next week, then go for it, play with them again.

+1000 to this and to the comment that this not isolated to girls. Gah it’s pretty sexist we make these conclusions about girls only.

This is almost always kids building social skills and trying to feel things out rather than malicious intent. They’re learning to be human.

NP, I agree with all of this!

NP, I disagree with all of this. It is typically seen more often with girls than boys and it’s almost always behavior modeled by their mean-girl moms who never grew up. These 8-yr olds aren’t “figuring out” social skills and coming up with these behaviors out of thin air, they’re emulating their mothers. The kids displaying these behaviors at 8 almost always end up being the “mean girls” in middle school. I’m a die-hard feminist and this isn’t sexism, it’s reality. It’s nurture, not nature.

We are seeing the same behaviors in 2nd grade in a large public. And while there are more options for new friendships, social fluidity begins to decrease so it is not as simple to walk up to someone and become friends with them.

I like the differentiation between behavior and character. DD also has a girl in her class who aspires to be 'class leader' and likes to butt in and designate who can be partner with whom, what foods one is 'allowed to' like and dislike etc. The parents are very much of the opinion 'let kids be kids' and so I don't know in these cases how would a child get feedback on her behavior (school doesn't).

This is normal kid behavior starting from preschool. It isn’t “mean girl” behavior.

You are doing the right things: talk about what a good friend is, it’s ok to walk away, if someone doesn’t want to be your friend, respect that and move on, find someone that does want to be your friend, Larla doesn’t get to control or decide whom your are friends with, no matter what she says- ignore if she says otherwise.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s normal. I don’t really like calling 2nd graders mean girls, because I think it’s really rare that a second grader is actually a mean girl (as a 7th or 8tb grader would be) - it’s more that 2nd graders are pretty clueless about friendship & social skills. They are all struggling, trying things on, saying dumb stuff. ..not a lot of it is calculated exclusionary mean girl bullying like in middle school. It’s more kids struggling to figure out social norms & acceptable behavior.

So yes, tell your DD to take a break from anyone being mean. If they seem kinder the next week, then go for it, play with them again.

+1000 to this and to the comment that this not isolated to girls. Gah it’s pretty sexist we make these conclusions about girls only.

This is almost always kids building social skills and trying to feel things out rather than malicious intent. They’re learning to be human.

NP, I agree with all of this!

Up until you said you were in a small private I thought you talking about my DD's friends! The witches thing especially. And sometimes they do days where they can only hang out with certain friends on certain days of the week. Not really sure how to handle that because it seems controlling and exclusionary but they are also organized about it and there's buy-in from the friends?

Echoing a lot of what has already been said: find different friends, object to the behavior not the friends, etc. And I also tell DD to seek out friends who make her feel good. Sometimes it can be as simple as that.

Anonymous wrote:It’s normal. I don’t really like calling 2nd graders mean girls, because I think it’s really rare that a second grader is actually a mean girl (as a 7th or 8tb grader would be) - it’s more that 2nd graders are pretty clueless about friendship & social skills. They are all struggling, trying things on, saying dumb stuff. ..not a lot of it is calculated exclusionary mean girl bullying like in middle school. It’s more kids struggling to figure out social norms & acceptable behavior.

So yes, tell your DD to take a break from anyone being mean. If they seem kinder the next week, then go for it, play with them again.

+1000 to this and to the comment that this not isolated to girls. Gah it’s pretty sexist we make these conclusions about girls only.

This is almost always kids building social skills and trying to feel things out rather than malicious intent. They’re learning to be human.

Anonymous wrote:I have to wonder if there is something in women's genetics that makes them so incredibly nasty and petty to each other. I have 2 boys and 2 girls and the difference is staggering. Never went through crap like this with my boys and it seems that girls come out of the womb stabbing each other in their backs.

Agreed.

Small private. It's only going to get worse. Please seek out a larger school fir your child.