Anonymous
Post 02/12/2018 14:20     Subject: Re:Loudoun ECNL?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not Duh. There are other models out there. VDA retains control of players, training and coaching. The difference is do you align with a professional club or not. VDA can hold players until graduation and claim their movement into national team pool or to a college. Reston (or the previous 4) could not really. They could say they sent them to Spirit....but it would be Spirit who can claim the players success and thus build their brand and club.


No, PWSI and VSA both lost their kids to VDA. You act like those are not feeder clubs to VDA. What claim does PWSI have to brag about once a kid is on VDA?


That goes to the point that there are too many clubs in NOVA. PWSI and VSA had to / chose to do that with VDA to stay relevant - correct? If not, why do the deal? But there is a difference on how Arlington has their boys program from what I understand. They have DA from 12-14 and control the teams and their development. At 15 and beyond I think they pass on top players to DC United. I may be wrong there, but I think that is correct.


No, without the demonstrated player pool, of at the time, VSA, PWSI and CYA, VDA would never have been awarded a DA in the first place. VDA only exists because those three clubs initially agreed to work together and provide a player pool to VDA. Also, and not a small thing is fields. I like how clubs use "their" fields on these applications as almost a certainty when in 90% of the cases the fields are public parks where access is granted by the local land owning county, but thats another argument.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2018 14:09     Subject: Re:Loudoun ECNL?
Anonymous wrote:Well, the problem with US soccer is a much bigger discussion. The comments above appear to be about 1) would Loudoun get ECNL 2) would they keep DA relationship with FCV and 3) what caused the Spirit deal to go bad. They did not seem to be justifications of good or bad decisions - but just what fueled the decisions. And yes, the US system is a mess. Add to it that we dont even leverage one club to support academies for boys and girls and their development. Spirit and DC United should be one club - like a Ladies and Mens Man United Academy. As long as soccer in the US is club centric and not player development centric - and that you have non profit and for profit clubs mixed....you will have issues.


Again, the money I get. No problem walking away from a boondoggle.

However, our overall pyramid is fractured and this discussion is a manifestation of that. You are correct in saying that our system is to club centric. If the interest of the players where put first there would be nothing wrong with Loudoun Soccer or any other club "losing" losing their top players to a Spirit or DC United. Clubs should either National, Regional, or local, period.

As a player you move up from your local, "town club" to a regional Club and then a National club. Clubs should not have teams participate outside of their level. If you are a regional club, that is what you are, you do not have teams participating in local or national leagues. Essentially, a local club feeds your club and you in turn feed the national club. Your claim to fame as a club is to move kids, NOT TEAMS to the next level.

The benefits of this are:

It is player centric.
Costs for local teams especially can be reduced dramatically.
The local and regional leagues can still have multiple divisions supporting multiple teams per club and utilize promotion relegation if they wish.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2018 14:08     Subject: Loudoun ECNL?
Anonymous wrote:I agree there are too many clubs. Its hard to find field time for the teams in the club as well. We live near Tysons and it would be fine to travel to McLean, Vienna, Falls Church or Great Falls for practices. A lot of kids on teams come from further away anyway.

It makes it hard for families to decide on a team when they try out in the spring but have no idea of the coach, the practice schedule or field location, or any type of game/tournament schedule. All the things that make it easier for the parents to get their kids where they need to be.


is it too much to ask for us to go back to the good old days - where you played rec until High School and you played multiple sports? Sigh....I digress
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2018 14:06     Subject: Loudoun ECNL?
I agree there are too many clubs. Its hard to find field time for the teams in the club as well. We live near Tysons and it would be fine to travel to McLean, Vienna, Falls Church or Great Falls for practices. A lot of kids on teams come from further away anyway.

It makes it hard for families to decide on a team when they try out in the spring but have no idea of the coach, the practice schedule or field location, or any type of game/tournament schedule. All the things that make it easier for the parents to get their kids where they need to be.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2018 14:00     Subject: Loudoun ECNL?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:LOL. Loudoun with ECNL. ASA with Girls DA.

Both of them blew it last year in their failed alliance with W. Spirit and now the scrambling, rumors, etc. fly . . .


Wasn't Arlington's issue that it did not want to give up control of its soccer fields, scarce as they are (and owned by the county), they have a big program with Rec, ADP and Travel - they need to keep control of their fields for all the different programs shoved into a tiny county.


Nope. It was a $$$ and control issue.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2018 13:58     Subject: Re:Loudoun ECNL?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not Duh. There are other models out there. VDA retains control of players, training and coaching. The difference is do you align with a professional club or not. VDA can hold players until graduation and claim their movement into national team pool or to a college. Reston (or the previous 4) could not really. They could say they sent them to Spirit....but it would be Spirit who can claim the players success and thus build their brand and club.


No, PWSI and VSA both lost their kids to VDA. You act like those are not feeder clubs to VDA. What claim does PWSI have to brag about once a kid is on VDA?


That goes to the point that there are too many clubs in NOVA. PWSI and VSA had to / chose to do that with VDA to stay relevant - correct? If not, why do the deal? But there is a difference on how Arlington has their boys program from what I understand. They have DA from 12-14 and control the teams and their development. At 15 and beyond I think they pass on top players to DC United. I may be wrong there, but I think that is correct.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2018 13:55     Subject: Re:Loudoun ECNL?
Well, the problem with US soccer is a much bigger discussion. The comments above appear to be about 1) would Loudoun get ECNL 2) would they keep DA relationship with FCV and 3) what caused the Spirit deal to go bad. They did not seem to be justifications of good or bad decisions - but just what fueled the decisions. And yes, the US system is a mess. Add to it that we dont even leverage one club to support academies for boys and girls and their development. Spirit and DC United should be one club - like a Ladies and Mens Man United Academy. As long as soccer in the US is club centric and not player development centric - and that you have non profit and for profit clubs mixed....you will have issues.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2018 13:50     Subject: Re:Loudoun ECNL?
Anonymous wrote:Not Duh. There are other models out there. VDA retains control of players, training and coaching. The difference is do you align with a professional club or not. VDA can hold players until graduation and claim their movement into national team pool or to a college. Reston (or the previous 4) could not really. They could say they sent them to Spirit....but it would be Spirit who can claim the players success and thus build their brand and club.


No, PWSI and VSA both lost their kids to VDA. You act like those are not feeder clubs to VDA. What claim does PWSI have to brag about once a kid is on VDA?
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2018 13:48     Subject: Re:Loudoun ECNL?
Anonymous wrote:ECNL would not let Loudoun keep the DA relationship with FCV if the granted them a license - because they want to compete against the DA out there - not co-exist. ECNL is not content with being labeled as the #2 league. There is a war being waged. The terms of the original Spirit deal were terrible BTW. There was a large sum of money requested up front from each club, and they also had to give up their top players to Spirit - with no coaching or training control. That would greatly hurt small clubs like BYRC who only keep one elite team per age, maybe two, and it would gut the top squads for the other clubs even though they are bigger. Losing their top players would only have given them them ability to brag their player was sent to Spirit DA, but not help club in any other way. For example, the Arlington boys deal with DC United works that way - they leave the club and go play with DC United Academy. They would not continue to play on Loudoun Red or Arlington Red. They would be gone. They were in essence asked to be feeder clubs to Spirit - and what club that is of any decent size or ability would agree to that? The deal Spirit eventually cut with Reston (after the first deal wit the other teams fell apart) did not have the big money ask (which was a main cause for the previous deal to die) and Reston was desperate to stay relevant - so they were OK with feeding players in. They also brought tons of field space to the table for Spirit to leverage in VA (a premium asset). Also, the DA on the girls side in Virginia and in other states is not some powerhouse (yet). Only 1 Spirit team between MD and VA is in playoff standings. VDA girls team are mid to lower of each bracket. Only FCV has good teams across all ages.This landscape is going to have several more drastic changes before it settles down. CCL, WAGS, NCSL will slowly die and merge to be regional leagues for non top teams. NPL will survive as a tier 3 league because its national. Many smaller clubs will have to merge to stay relevant. There are too many clubs in NOVA.


This is the problem with Soccer in the States. Clubs all feel they need to be THE DESTINATION. Clubs can't be happy with their niche. So lets take a look at your reasons why the "Spirit deal was bad for clubs"

I'll grant you the money issue. But the rest are all pretty much about the club and not the kid. Comments like "They would not continue to play on Loudoun Red or Arlington Red.[i]" Now tell me, in who's best interest is this? For the sake of argument lets just pretend that DA is head and shoulders the best league in the land and Spirit is a "power house." Under those conditions it is in the players best interest to be moved into that environment if they would benefit. For a club like Loudoun or BRYC to worry about the affects on their "elite" teams over the development of deserving players is terrible.

There are lots of players out there and there should be ample opportunity for all kids to play and develop at their appropriate level. But when clubs and organizations deam themselves to be THE ELITE place it serves nobody.

So Loudoun gets ECNL. Now they keep their players in ECNL and likely very few kids end up going to Loudoun. What has Loudoun really done? Have they become a destination or the king of "retention"? Loudoun will tell their kids, "stay here, ECNL will serve what you need." But their teams will go largely unchanged, talent will remain diluted but hey, Loudoun or BRYC didn't lose any of their top players right? They were able to convince parents and kids against the best possible interest of the kids.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2018 13:47     Subject: Re:Loudoun ECNL?
Not Duh. There are other models out there. VDA retains control of players, training and coaching. The difference is do you align with a professional club or not. VDA can hold players until graduation and claim their movement into national team pool or to a college. Reston (or the previous 4) could not really. They could say they sent them to Spirit....but it would be Spirit who can claim the players success and thus build their brand and club.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2018 13:34     Subject: Re:Loudoun ECNL?
Anonymous wrote:ECNL would not let Loudoun keep the DA relationship with FCV if the granted them a license - because they want to compete against the DA out there - not co-exist. ECNL is not content with being labeled as the #2 league. There is a war being waged. The terms of the original Spirit deal were terrible BTW. There was a large sum of money requested up front from each club, and they also had to give up their top players to Spirit - with no coaching or training control. That would greatly hurt small clubs like BYRC who only keep one elite team per age, maybe two, and it would gut the top squads for the other clubs even though they are bigger. Losing their top players would only have given them them ability to brag their player was sent to Spirit DA, but not help club in any other way. For example, the Arlington boys deal with DC United works that way - they leave the club and go play with DC United Academy. They would not continue to play on Loudoun Red or Arlington Red. They would be gone. They were in essence asked to be feeder clubs to Spirit - and what club that is of any decent size or ability would agree to that? The deal Spirit eventually cut with Reston (after the first deal wit the other teams fell apart) did not have the big money ask (which was a main cause for the previous deal to die) and Reston was desperate to stay relevant - so they were OK with feeding players in. They also brought tons of field space to the table for Spirit to leverage in VA (a premium asset). Also, the DA on the girls side in Virginia and in other states is not some powerhouse (yet). Only 1 Spirit team between MD and VA is in playoff standings. VDA girls team are mid to lower of each bracket. Only FCV has good teams across all ages.This landscape is going to have several more drastic changes before it settles down. CCL, WAGS, NCSL will slowly die and merge to be regional leagues for non top teams. NPL will survive as a tier 3 league because its national. Many smaller clubs will have to merge to stay relevant. There are too many clubs in NOVA.


Ummm, well duh.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2018 13:34     Subject: Loudoun ECNL?
Anonymous wrote:LOL. Loudoun with ECNL. ASA with Girls DA.

Both of them blew it last year in their failed alliance with W. Spirit and now the scrambling, rumors, etc. fly . . .


Wasn't Arlington's issue that it did not want to give up control of its soccer fields, scarce as they are (and owned by the county), they have a big program with Rec, ADP and Travel - they need to keep control of their fields for all the different programs shoved into a tiny county.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2018 13:27     Subject: Re:Loudoun ECNL?
ECNL would not let Loudoun keep the DA relationship with FCV if the granted them a license - because they want to compete against the DA out there - not co-exist. ECNL is not content with being labeled as the #2 league. There is a war being waged. The terms of the original Spirit deal were terrible BTW. There was a large sum of money requested up front from each club, and they also had to give up their top players to Spirit - with no coaching or training control. That would greatly hurt small clubs like BYRC who only keep one elite team per age, maybe two, and it would gut the top squads for the other clubs even though they are bigger. Losing their top players would only have given them them ability to brag their player was sent to Spirit DA, but not help club in any other way. For example, the Arlington boys deal with DC United works that way - they leave the club and go play with DC United Academy. They would not continue to play on Loudoun Red or Arlington Red. They would be gone. They were in essence asked to be feeder clubs to Spirit - and what club that is of any decent size or ability would agree to that? The deal Spirit eventually cut with Reston (after the first deal wit the other teams fell apart) did not have the big money ask (which was a main cause for the previous deal to die) and Reston was desperate to stay relevant - so they were OK with feeding players in. They also brought tons of field space to the table for Spirit to leverage in VA (a premium asset). Also, the DA on the girls side in Virginia and in other states is not some powerhouse (yet). Only 1 Spirit team between MD and VA is in playoff standings. VDA girls team are mid to lower of each bracket. Only FCV has good teams across all ages.This landscape is going to have several more drastic changes before it settles down. CCL, WAGS, NCSL will slowly die and merge to be regional leagues for non top teams. NPL will survive as a tier 3 league because its national. Many smaller clubs will have to merge to stay relevant. There are too many clubs in NOVA.
Anonymous
Post 02/06/2018 09:39     Subject: Re:Loudoun ECNL?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would be surprised if BRYC applied for the Girls DA program as currently both their Boys and Girls clubs are both in ECNL.


I agree very unlikely after 1st year in the league and also after loss of some membership due to the team/training changes at younger ages. I guess they could always keep the same training approach and just focus on the DA.


BRYC is not planning to go DA next year. If they are, then they misled all of their parents at the parent meeting last month. Not saying they won't ever reconsider going DA, but it's not next year.


Well what did they say at the meeting that could be misleading?
Anonymous
Post 02/06/2018 09:30     Subject: Re:Loudoun ECNL?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would be surprised if BRYC applied for the Girls DA program as currently both their Boys and Girls clubs are both in ECNL.


I agree very unlikely after 1st year in the league and also after loss of some membership due to the team/training changes at younger ages. I guess they could always keep the same training approach and just focus on the DA.


BRYC is not planning to go DA next year. If they are, then they misled all of their parents at the parent meeting last month. Not saying they won't ever reconsider going DA, but it's not next year.