Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your daughter is interested in majoring in a lab science (e.g., chemistry or biology) then she needs to start doing research in a lab ASAP, preferably as a freshman (if not before). This can be hard to do at big state schools where faculty are less engaged with undergrads. It's impossible to do at small liberal arts colleges without research faculty. Look for a school in the middle--big enough for real research opportunities, but which emphasizes undergrad education.

Signed, organic chemistry PhD who mentored plenty of premeds

http://nsse.indiana.edu/2017_institutional_report/pdf/HIPTables/HIP.pdf

Percent of seniors at "Baccalaureate Colleges: Arts & Sciences Focus" (the classification for LACs) who did research with faculty: 48%
Percent of seniors at "R1: Doctoral Universities - Highest research activity" who did research with faculty: 26%

https://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/institutional-research/Doct%20Rates%20Rankings%20by%20Broad%20Disc%20Field-Summary%20to%202015.pdf

LACs in the top 30 for producing life science PhDs: Reed, Swarthmore, Grinnell, Carleton, Haverford, Harvey Mudd, Pomona (former all in the top 10), Earlham, Allegheny, College of the Atlantic, Bowdoin, Bard, Kalamazoo, Mount Holyoke

LACs in the top 30 for producing physical science PhDs: Harvey Mudd, Reed, Carleton, Swarthmore, Grinnell, Haverford (former all in the top 10), College of Wooster, Lawrence, Allegheny, Wabash, Williams, Bryn Mawr, Kalamazoo, Whitman, Franklin & Marshall, Knox, Juniata, Centre

Cite whatever statistics you'd like. It doesn't change my recommendation. If you want to major in a lab science like chem or bio, you will have a huge leg up in grad school admissions, med school admissions or job opportunities if you have spent significant time in a lab doing research. You will do even better if you have several publications in peer reviewed journals. These opportunities don't exist ar non-research universities. Those students usually get any research experience they can by doing a single NSF REU (National Science Foundation Research Experience For Undergraduates) or the equivalent the summer between their junior and senior year. This isn't enough. Those students don't have the publications or connections to get into top grad programs. They don't have enough experience to know what sort of research they ultimately want to study. My guess is most of them go to med school (though publications really help with that admission too) or move into other fields. I don't recall a single student from any of those LAC schools in my grad program.

The students who did the best in grad school were those with tons of research experience from places like Carnegie Mellon or Case Western. Mid sized schools with research faculty. Look there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your daughter is interested in majoring in a lab science (e.g., chemistry or biology) then she needs to start doing research in a lab ASAP, preferably as a freshman (if not before). This can be hard to do at big state schools where faculty are less engaged with undergrads. It's impossible to do at small liberal arts colleges without research faculty. Look for a school in the middle--big enough for real research opportunities, but which emphasizes undergrad education.

Signed, organic chemistry PhD who mentored plenty of premeds

http://nsse.indiana.edu/2017_institutional_report/pdf/HIPTables/HIP.pdf

Percent of seniors at "Baccalaureate Colleges: Arts & Sciences Focus" (the classification for LACs) who did research with faculty: 48%
Percent of seniors at "R1: Doctoral Universities - Highest research activity" who did research with faculty: 26%

https://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/institutional-research/Doct%20Rates%20Rankings%20by%20Broad%20Disc%20Field-Summary%20to%202015.pdf

LACs in the top 30 for producing life science PhDs: Reed, Swarthmore, Grinnell, Carleton, Haverford, Harvey Mudd, Pomona (former all in the top 10), Earlham, Allegheny, College of the Atlantic, Bowdoin, Bard, Kalamazoo, Mount Holyoke

LACs in the top 30 for producing physical science PhDs: Harvey Mudd, Reed, Carleton, Swarthmore, Grinnell, Haverford (former all in the top 10), College of Wooster, Lawrence, Allegheny, Wabash, Williams, Bryn Mawr, Kalamazoo, Whitman, Franklin & Marshall, Knox, Juniata, Centre

Cite whatever statistics you'd like. It doesn't change my recommendation. If you want to major in a lab science like chem or bio, you will have a huge leg up in grad school admissions, med school admissions or job opportunities if you have spent significant time in a lab doing research. You will do even better if you have several publications in peer reviewed journals. These opportunities don't exist ar non-research universities. Those students usually get any research experience they can by doing a single NSF REU (National Science Foundation Research Experience For Undergraduates) or the equivalent the summer between their junior and senior year. This isn't enough. Those students don't have the publications or connections to get into top grad programs. They don't have enough experience to know what sort of research they ultimately want to study. My guess is most of them go to med school (though publications really help with that admission too) or move into other fields. I don't recall a single student from any of those LAC schools in my grad program.

The students who did the best in grad school were those with tons of research experience from places like Carnegie Mellon or Case Western. Mid sized schools with research faculty. Look there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your daughter is interested in majoring in a lab science (e.g., chemistry or biology) then she needs to start doing research in a lab ASAP, preferably as a freshman (if not before). This can be hard to do at big state schools where faculty are less engaged with undergrads. It's impossible to do at small liberal arts colleges without research faculty. Look for a school in the middle--big enough for real research opportunities, but which emphasizes undergrad education.

Signed, organic chemistry PhD who mentored plenty of premeds

http://nsse.indiana.edu/2017_institutional_report/pdf/HIPTables/HIP.pdf

Percent of seniors at "Baccalaureate Colleges: Arts & Sciences Focus" (the classification for LACs) who did research with faculty: 48%
Percent of seniors at "R1: Doctoral Universities - Highest research activity" who did research with faculty: 26%

https://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/institutional-research/Doct%20Rates%20Rankings%20by%20Broad%20Disc%20Field-Summary%20to%202015.pdf

LACs in the top 30 for producing life science PhDs: Reed, Swarthmore, Grinnell, Carleton, Haverford, Harvey Mudd, Pomona (former all in the top 10), Earlham, Allegheny, College of the Atlantic, Bowdoin, Bard, Kalamazoo, Mount Holyoke

LACs in the top 30 for producing physical science PhDs: Harvey Mudd, Reed, Carleton, Swarthmore, Grinnell, Haverford (former all in the top 10), College of Wooster, Lawrence, Allegheny, Wabash, Williams, Bryn Mawr, Kalamazoo, Whitman, Franklin & Marshall, Knox, Juniata, Centre

Cite whatever statistics you'd like. It doesn't change my recommendation. If you want to major in a lab science like chem or bio, you will have a huge leg up in grad school admissions, med school admissions or job opportunities if you have spent significant time in a lab doing research. You will do even better if you have several publications in peer reviewed journals. These opportunities don't exist ar non-research universities. Those students usually get any research experience they can by doing a single NSF REU (National Science Foundation Research Experience For Undergraduates) or the equivalent the summer between their junior and senior year. This isn't enough. Those students don't have the publications or connections to get into top grad programs. They don't have enough experience to know what sort of research they ultimately want to study. My guess is most of them go to med school (though publications really help with that admission too) or move into other fields. I don't recall a single student from any of those LAC schools in my grad program.

The students who did the best in grad school were those with tons of research experience from places like Carnegie Mellon or Case Western. Mid sized schools with research faculty. Look there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your daughter is interested in majoring in a lab science (e.g., chemistry or biology) then she needs to start doing research in a lab ASAP, preferably as a freshman (if not before). This can be hard to do at big state schools where faculty are less engaged with undergrads. It's impossible to do at small liberal arts colleges without research faculty. Look for a school in the middle--big enough for real research opportunities, but which emphasizes undergrad education.

Signed, organic chemistry PhD who mentored plenty of premeds

http://nsse.indiana.edu/2017_institutional_report/pdf/HIPTables/HIP.pdf

Percent of seniors at "Baccalaureate Colleges: Arts & Sciences Focus" (the classification for LACs) who did research with faculty: 48%
Percent of seniors at "R1: Doctoral Universities - Highest research activity" who did research with faculty: 26%

https://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/institutional-research/Doct%20Rates%20Rankings%20by%20Broad%20Disc%20Field-Summary%20to%202015.pdf

LACs in the top 30 for producing life science PhDs: Reed, Swarthmore, Grinnell, Carleton, Haverford, Harvey Mudd, Pomona (former all in the top 10), Earlham, Allegheny, College of the Atlantic, Bowdoin, Bard, Kalamazoo, Mount Holyoke

LACs in the top 30 for producing physical science PhDs: Harvey Mudd, Reed, Carleton, Swarthmore, Grinnell, Haverford (former all in the top 10), College of Wooster, Lawrence, Allegheny, Wabash, Williams, Bryn Mawr, Kalamazoo, Whitman, Franklin & Marshall, Knox, Juniata, Centre

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly and this is from my mom who is a fed researcher in biology. Don’t be a biology major. Unless pre med. it’s a hard long road and you need a PhD to do research. Super competitor and very little money and stability on the other side.

NP here. What about Chem? My DD wants to major in Chem. I suspect it will be the same. She says she wants to get a PhD but I suspect that's because she likes the idea/prestige of the PhD.

Anonymous wrote:If your daughter is interested in majoring in a lab science (e.g., chemistry or biology) then she needs to start doing research in a lab ASAP, preferably as a freshman (if not before). This can be hard to do at big state schools where faculty are less engaged with undergrads. It's impossible to do at small liberal arts colleges without research faculty. Look for a school in the middle--big enough for real research opportunities, but which emphasizes undergrad education.

Signed, organic chemistry PhD who mentored plenty of premeds

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many small colleges have great bio programs and you get a lot of time with faculty. I went to Beloit (which gives a ton of aid) and was a bio minor and many of my friends were majors. I’d say they’re split, now, between field research (went on to get MS degrees) and being medical doctors.

Wow, my DS recently graduated from Beloit with a bio minor and a major in another science, also with many friends who were bio majors, some of whom are now in med school. DS received very generous merit aid such that the cost was similar to going in state. Beloit has an amazing new science building. Due to the small size of the college, my DS had amazing research opportunities, wonderful relationships with his professors and got a great education. He’s applying now for grad school. When he was deciding between Beloit and a big research university, the grad students he talked with at the university told him to go to Beloit for undergrad because he’d get to know his professors better and have opportunities at Beloit that only grad students would get at the big research university.

Anonymous wrote:Honestly and this is from my mom who is a fed researcher in biology. Don’t be a biology major. Unless pre med. it’s a hard long road and you need a PhD to do research. Super competitor and very little money and stability on the other side.

Anonymous wrote:Many small colleges have great bio programs and you get a lot of time with faculty. I went to Beloit (which gives a ton of aid) and was a bio minor and many of my friends were majors. I’d say they’re split, now, between field research (went on to get MS degrees) and being medical doctors.

Anonymous wrote:Many small colleges have great bio programs and you get a lot of time with faculty. I went to Beloit (which gives a ton of aid) and was a bio minor and many of my friends were majors. I’d say they’re split, now, between field research (went on to get MS degrees) and being medical doctors.