Anonymous
Post 12/06/2017 08:25     Subject: Jewish Parents: Do you talk to your kids about God?
Anonymous wrote:
Um... the same things Jews have always believed in: repairing the world, creating a society you want to leave to your children, strong communities, justice.
These are pretty meaningless phrases on which a person can project whatever beliefs and policies they want. Doubtless many Nazis also saw themselves as repairing the world, creating a society to leave to their children, building strong communities, and implementing justice.

Even setting the extreme examples aside and assuming the most charitable interpretations, basically all nice non-Jewish people believe in the things listed too. If that's someone's entire Jewish identity, it's not really distinct in any way from the broader pool of well-intentioned humans.
Anonymous
Post 12/06/2017 08:21     Subject: Jewish Parents: Do you talk to your kids about God?
I'm the pp and I'll give you an example of one way Chabad has indirectly influenced my kids for good. Last year I purchased blue and white lights to decorate inside the house for Hanukkah. I put them up again this year and my 11 year old remarked that they were a bit too Christmasy for him. No one at Chabad told him this- it was just a feeling he had. I was trying to liven up the house so that they wouldn't feel bad that they didn't have a decorated home for the holidays? Guess what? Now my son is so secure in his Judaism that he doesn't "need to pretend" in his own home. Of course we love being with friends for Christmas but in our own home, we are strictly Jewish.
Anonymous
Post 12/06/2017 08:11     Subject: Jewish Parents: Do you talk to your kids about God?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think we need to bring h Gd back into Judaism. Otherwise what we have left to pass onto our kids are bagels and holidays without much meaning.

Honestly, this is how I sometimes feel about Judaism. With the exception of Orthodox Jews, Judaism has become meaningless because many people who are culturally Jews are atheists. There seems to be some level of opposition towards bringing God back into Judaism. Other people of faith seem to have some purpose or principles. Catholics, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. I know what they believe. What exactly do Jews believe in? Without God is Judaism dead?


This is why we go to Chabad. We are not observant. We don't keep kosher. We eat pig on Shabbat. But, we want our children to learn observant Judaism so that they can make the decision of how observant to be for themselves.

My kids absolutely love Chabad because it's so authentic and sincere.


So this is a philosophy I hear sometimes about Chabad and I'm genuinely confused by it. You and your spouse do not value "observant Judaism" in your daily lives. So why do you want to expose your children to it? Why hold it up as an ideal if that ideal doesn't meet your family's needs? There are so many other ways to "do Jewish" that may better reflect the values you do have, why not explore those communities and find one that meets everyone in your family's interests and values? Otherwise, why involve your kid at all?

And if your kids do choose to follow Chabad's model of a Jewish life, are you going to feel comfortable with that? Will you be ok with the fact that they won't eat in your nonkosher home, that they won't drive to see you on Shabbat and all holidays, and all the other things that go along with that path? The folks who run Chabad aren't reflective of the larger ultra-orthodox world, they are hand-picked, specially trained recruiters (called shlichim) who are on a mission to reach out and embrace nonobservant Jews (with a special emphasis on their children). Their goal is simple--to "save" every Jewish soul they can by offering up all kinds of experiences for little to no cost. They are evangelists. If your kids embrace ultra-orthodoxy as adults, they won't be like those people running their classes and warmly welcoming you each time they see you. They will move to a closed community and live a Torah-centered life that eschews secular society. That is the outcome that Chabad is working for. Chabad is the outreach organization for the Lubavitch movement and the end game is to add to the Lubavitch community, not to have a few more members of the Chabad house.

"The approach of Chabad today mirrors that of the Baal Shem Tov in his time: Look past the outward person and trust in the soul deep inside. You may disapprove of everything he does, and his outlook on life may be the opposite of everything you believe. Don’t argue with him. Instead, be one with him. Unconditionally. You enjoy Shabbat--enjoy it with him. You find solace and counsel in the wisdom of Torah--talk to your holy brothers and sisters about that wisdom in their own language, on their own terms. And if he or she does not change one iota, that is irrelevant. You have done your job of love. Two Jews became one and that is all that matters." This quote comes from Chabad's own website--and while it sounds all loving, don't skip over the first few sentences. Do you feel ok with the fact that the people teaching your kids openly admit that they disapprove of everything you do and your outlook on life? Would you put up with that same statement from your kids' secular school teachers?


I have heard this criticism of Chabad before and there are valid points here. I've been told that once your child hits post Bar Mitzvah age there is pressure to "do more". As a family we will not be pressured to do anything. Here's what we love about Chabad:
- My kids have learned more Hebrew in one year than they did in 3 years of their previous Conservative Hebrew school
- instead of having to go to HS 2x a week for 5+ hours they go on Sundays for 2 hours.

I find your comments about sexism and racism offensive. I find Chabad to be the most welcoming place as a woman. Our rebbetzin is absolutely brilliant and inspiring, raising a gaggle of children while running the preschool, teaching classes etc.

In terms of Chabad thinking we are wrong and judging our choices, guess what? We are wrong! Judaism is what it is. In our opinion, the Reform and Conservative movements have made it easier and more convenient to be Jewish by downplaying or outright ignoring Jewish law. Sure, it's convenient to have the synagogue kickball tournament on a Saturday, but is this "kosher"? Of course not. If the synagogue says it's ok, members think it's ok.

I have never been made to feel guilty about the choices I make as a Jew at Chabad. They show us the observant way and what we do is up to us. Truthfully they inspire us to do more but within our comfort zone. I baked a challah last week for fun. We will light Hanukkah candles all 8 nights. We go to services 4x a year now instead of 2. We still drive there. Everyone does.

If my kids decide to be more observant, I will be proud. Unbelievably proud because being observant is a huge commitment and effort. How could I not be? Our rabbi has been to our home before. He has never eaten here but I would make whatever accommodations needed to make him comfortable and my children comfortable.
Anonymous
Post 12/06/2017 07:18     Subject: Jewish Parents: Do you talk to your kids about God?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think we need to bring h Gd back into Judaism. Otherwise what we have left to pass onto our kids are bagels and holidays without much meaning.

Honestly, this is how I sometimes feel about Judaism. With the exception of Orthodox Jews, Judaism has become meaningless because many people who are culturally Jews are atheists. There seems to be some level of opposition towards bringing God back into Judaism. Other people of faith seem to have some purpose or principles. Catholics, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. I know what they believe. What exactly do Jews believe in? Without God is Judaism dead?


This is why we go to Chabad. We are not observant. We don't keep kosher. We eat pig on Shabbat. But, we want our children to learn observant Judaism so that they can make the decision of how observant to be for themselves.

My kids absolutely love Chabad because it's so authentic and sincere.


So this is a philosophy I hear sometimes about Chabad and I'm genuinely confused by it. You and your spouse do not value "observant Judaism" in your daily lives. So why do you want to expose your children to it? Why hold it up as an ideal if that ideal doesn't meet your family's needs? There are so many other ways to "do Jewish" that may better reflect the values you do have, why not explore those communities and find one that meets everyone in your family's interests and values? Otherwise, why involve your kid at all?

And if your kids do choose to follow Chabad's model of a Jewish life, are you going to feel comfortable with that? Will you be ok with the fact that they won't eat in your nonkosher home, that they won't drive to see you on Shabbat and all holidays, and all the other things that go along with that path? The folks who run Chabad aren't reflective of the larger ultra-orthodox world, they are hand-picked, specially trained recruiters (called shlichim) who are on a mission to reach out and embrace nonobservant Jews (with a special emphasis on their children). Their goal is simple--to "save" every Jewish soul they can by offering up all kinds of experiences for little to no cost. They are evangelists. If your kids embrace ultra-orthodoxy as adults, they won't be like those people running their classes and warmly welcoming you each time they see you. They will move to a closed community and live a Torah-centered life that eschews secular society. That is the outcome that Chabad is working for. Chabad is the outreach organization for the Lubavitch movement and the end game is to add to the Lubavitch community, not to have a few more members of the Chabad house.

"The approach of Chabad today mirrors that of the Baal Shem Tov in his time: Look past the outward person and trust in the soul deep inside. You may disapprove of everything he does, and his outlook on life may be the opposite of everything you believe. Don’t argue with him. Instead, be one with him. Unconditionally. You enjoy Shabbat--enjoy it with him. You find solace and counsel in the wisdom of Torah--talk to your holy brothers and sisters about that wisdom in their own language, on their own terms. And if he or she does not change one iota, that is irrelevant. You have done your job of love. Two Jews became one and that is all that matters." This quote comes from Chabad's own website--and while it sounds all loving, don't skip over the first few sentences. Do you feel ok with the fact that the people teaching your kids openly admit that they disapprove of everything you do and your outlook on life? Would you put up with that same statement from your kids' secular school teachers?
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2017 09:18     Subject: Jewish Parents: Do you talk to your kids about God?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Immediate, non-Jewish PP and I will add that I think cultural Judaism goes beyond bagels. There is a commitment to improving the world, educating oneself, valuing history and community. Many of the non-believing Jews I know would identify these concepts as part of their cultural Jewish identity.


While these are certainly Jewish mitzvot, what is happening in Judaism in Reform and Conservative movements is a shift away from G-d and a full on takeover of Liberalism. I have been to synagogues that sound more like a meeting of Communist sympathizers than a Jewish service.

As a core belief, Reform Judaism is committed to tikkun olam , healing the world, and gemilut chasadim, acts of loving kindness. This is regardless of level of belief in God. Is that what you’re referring to? It’s one of the things I love about being a Reform Jew, and certainly goes beyond bagels and lox.

What are those loving kindness things that Reform Jews do? I'm being serious here. What charities, organizations, or social services programs do you partake in? Are Jews having conversations with Muslims, Christians, and people of other religions to bring forth peace in the world? What type of commitments are Jews doing to make the world a better place? I have visited various synagogues in this area. There is so much fluff and not a lot of substance. It's like let's all get together, convince ourselves that we're good people, and pat ourselves on the back. However, there is never a commitment to doing for others who are not Jewish.

I commend you, but when I think of Judaism the first thing that enters my mind is not healing the world. Judaism sort of embodies separation and division. It's an us against them type of focus. I'm not saying that all Jews have this attitude, but the vast majority do. So, I'm in awe when I encounter a Jew whose perspective on life is about healing the world.


Hadassah and the Jewish Federation are two of the largest charities in the US, supporting both Jewish and non-Jewish programs.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2017 09:16     Subject: Jewish Parents: Do you talk to your kids about God?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think we need to bring h Gd back into Judaism. Otherwise what we have left to pass onto our kids are bagels and holidays without much meaning.

Honestly, this is how I sometimes feel about Judaism. With the exception of Orthodox Jews, Judaism has become meaningless because many people who are culturally Jews are atheists. There seems to be some level of opposition towards bringing God back into Judaism. Other people of faith seem to have some purpose or principles. Catholics, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. I know what they believe. What exactly do Jews believe in? Without God is Judaism dead?


This is why we go to Chabad. We are not observant. We don't keep kosher. We eat pig on Shabbat. But, we want our children to learn observant Judaism so that they can make the decision of how observant to be for themselves.

My kids absolutely love Chabad because it's so authentic and sincere.


Same here. Love Chabad - they make being Jewish fun.


And I hate Chabad because they proselytize. You do the fun, and then you get the sexism, racism, xenophobia, and corruption as a side dish.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2017 09:14     Subject: Jewish Parents: Do you talk to your kids about God?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think we need to bring h Gd back into Judaism. Otherwise what we have left to pass onto our kids are bagels and holidays without much meaning.

Honestly, this is how I sometimes feel about Judaism. With the exception of Orthodox Jews, Judaism has become meaningless because many people who are culturally Jews are atheists. There seems to be some level of opposition towards bringing God back into Judaism. Other people of faith seem to have some purpose or principles. Catholics, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. I know what they believe. What exactly do Jews believe in? Without God is Judaism dead?


Um... the same things Jews have always believed in: repairing the world, creating a society you want to leave to your children, strong communities, justice.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2017 09:04     Subject: Jewish Parents: Do you talk to your kids about God?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think we need to bring h Gd back into Judaism. Otherwise what we have left to pass onto our kids are bagels and holidays without much meaning.

Honestly, this is how I sometimes feel about Judaism. With the exception of Orthodox Jews, Judaism has become meaningless because many people who are culturally Jews are atheists. There seems to be some level of opposition towards bringing God back into Judaism. Other people of faith seem to have some purpose or principles. Catholics, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. I know what they believe. What exactly do Jews believe in? Without God is Judaism dead?


This is why we go to Chabad. We are not observant. We don't keep kosher. We eat pig on Shabbat. But, we want our children to learn observant Judaism so that they can make the decision of how observant to be for themselves.

My kids absolutely love Chabad because it's so authentic and sincere.


Same here. Love Chabad - they make being Jewish fun.
Anonymous
Post 12/03/2017 12:59     Subject: Jewish Parents: Do you talk to your kids about God?
8:32 again. The things I mentioned above are the things my congregation does specifically. My family does other things in addition. Happy to talk about those too!
Anonymous
Post 12/03/2017 12:34     Subject: Jewish Parents: Do you talk to your kids about God?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Immediate, non-Jewish PP and I will add that I think cultural Judaism goes beyond bagels. There is a commitment to improving the world, educating oneself, valuing history and community. Many of the non-believing Jews I know would identify these concepts as part of their cultural Jewish identity.


While these are certainly Jewish mitzvot, what is happening in Judaism in Reform and Conservative movements is a shift away from G-d and a full on takeover of Liberalism. I have been to synagogues that sound more like a meeting of Communist sympathizers than a Jewish service.

As a core belief, Reform Judaism is committed to tikkun olam , healing the world, and gemilut chasadim, acts of loving kindness. This is regardless of level of belief in God. Is that what you’re referring to? It’s one of the things I love about being a Reform Jew, and certainly goes beyond bagels and lox.

What are those loving kindness things that Reform Jews do? I'm being serious here. What charities, organizations, or social services programs do you partake in? Are Jews having conversations with Muslims, Christians, and people of other religions to bring forth peace in the world? What type of commitments are Jews doing to make the world a better place? I have visited various synagogues in this area. There is so much fluff and not a lot of substance. It's like let's all get together, convince ourselves that we're good people, and pat ourselves on the back. However, there is never a commitment to doing for others who are not Jewish.

I commend you, but when I think of Judaism the first thing that enters my mind is not healing the world. Judaism sort of embodies separation and division. It's an us against them type of focus. I'm not saying that all Jews have this attitude, but the vast majority do. So, I'm in awe when I encounter a Jew whose perspective on life is about healing the world.

I’m 8:32. I don’t live in the DC area any more, but my “home congregation,” where I grew up and learned the foundations of my beliefs, is Baltimore Hebrew. The congregation has a firm belief in social justice and interfaith dialogue.

My current congregation has an interfaith garden on site, which we tend with a Baptist church in our town. The harvest goes to a local food pantry. We also package food for the food bank, and families with older children serve at the food bank. We engage in interfaith conversations with Christians and Muslims in our town. Students who are becoming b’nai mitzvot are required to do a service project. We send representatives to environmental cleanups. We have a presence at various events focused on social justice...These are the things I could think of off the top of my head.

I don’t know what to tell you about the services you’ve attended, since I can only speak from my experience. But it is a core tenet of Reform Judaism.
Anonymous
Post 12/03/2017 11:37     Subject: Jewish Parents: Do you talk to your kids about God?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Immediate, non-Jewish PP and I will add that I think cultural Judaism goes beyond bagels. There is a commitment to improving the world, educating oneself, valuing history and community. Many of the non-believing Jews I know would identify these concepts as part of their cultural Jewish identity.


While these are certainly Jewish mitzvot, what is happening in Judaism in Reform and Conservative movements is a shift away from G-d and a full on takeover of Liberalism. I have been to synagogues that sound more like a meeting of Communist sympathizers than a Jewish service.


I have been to quite a few churches of various denominations like this as well! People in these churches are palpably embarrassed by traditional Christian beliefs re: the deity.
Anonymous
Post 12/03/2017 11:10     Subject: Jewish Parents: Do you talk to your kids about God?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Immediate, non-Jewish PP and I will add that I think cultural Judaism goes beyond bagels. There is a commitment to improving the world, educating oneself, valuing history and community. Many of the non-believing Jews I know would identify these concepts as part of their cultural Jewish identity.


While these are certainly Jewish mitzvot, what is happening in Judaism in Reform and Conservative movements is a shift away from G-d and a full on takeover of Liberalism. I have been to synagogues that sound more like a meeting of Communist sympathizers than a Jewish service.

As a core belief, Reform Judaism is committed to tikkun olam , healing the world, and gemilut chasadim, acts of loving kindness. This is regardless of level of belief in God. Is that what you’re referring to? It’s one of the things I love about being a Reform Jew, and certainly goes beyond bagels and lox.

What are those loving kindness things that Reform Jews do? I'm being serious here. What charities, organizations, or social services programs do you partake in? Are Jews having conversations with Muslims, Christians, and people of other religions to bring forth peace in the world? What type of commitments are Jews doing to make the world a better place? I have visited various synagogues in this area. There is so much fluff and not a lot of substance. It's like let's all get together, convince ourselves that we're good people, and pat ourselves on the back. However, there is never a commitment to doing for others who are not Jewish.

I commend you, but when I think of Judaism the first thing that enters my mind is not healing the world. Judaism sort of embodies separation and division. It's an us against them type of focus. I'm not saying that all Jews have this attitude, but the vast majority do. So, I'm in awe when I encounter a Jew whose perspective on life is about healing the world.


I am the non-Jewish PP from above. Examples from my (atheist, culturally Jewish) husband: monthly donations to NAACP, UnidosUS, SPLC and other organizations that are doing work we feel to be valuable in the world. With our children, we make bags of supplies (warm socks and gloves, snacks, toiletries) and hand them out to homeless people we encounter. DH has participated in extensive (secular, multi-faith) training on racial inclusion and justice which has absolutely involved conversations with members of different faith traditions. He has volunteered for homeless shelters as a mentor and tutor for children. I don't know that he would jump up and say he does all of these things as a cultural Jew (just as I would not say I do these things as a former Christian) but he has values and principles, learned from his family and upbringing, and I think he would identify service to others as part of who he is.

His extended family hosts a reform Seder every year which is where I first encountered the term tikkun olam and which is the most meaningful religious event we participate in as a family. There is a lot of discussion and thought among them (largely non-believing Jews although some of them are observant and I presume they do believe in God) about how to make the world better. I do not hear "us vs them" and I say that as someone who could absolutely be "them" in that group.

I have never attended synagogue in this area so cannot speak to your points on that.
Anonymous
Post 12/03/2017 09:58     Subject: Jewish Parents: Do you talk to your kids about God?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Immediate, non-Jewish PP and I will add that I think cultural Judaism goes beyond bagels. There is a commitment to improving the world, educating oneself, valuing history and community. Many of the non-believing Jews I know would identify these concepts as part of their cultural Jewish identity.


While these are certainly Jewish mitzvot, what is happening in Judaism in Reform and Conservative movements is a shift away from G-d and a full on takeover of Liberalism. I have been to synagogues that sound more like a meeting of Communist sympathizers than a Jewish service.

As a core belief, Reform Judaism is committed to tikkun olam , healing the world, and gemilut chasadim, acts of loving kindness. This is regardless of level of belief in God. Is that what you’re referring to? It’s one of the things I love about being a Reform Jew, and certainly goes beyond bagels and lox.

What are those loving kindness things that Reform Jews do? I'm being serious here. What charities, organizations, or social services programs do you partake in? Are Jews having conversations with Muslims, Christians, and people of other religions to bring forth peace in the world? What type of commitments are Jews doing to make the world a better place? I have visited various synagogues in this area. There is so much fluff and not a lot of substance. It's like let's all get together, convince ourselves that we're good people, and pat ourselves on the back. However, there is never a commitment to doing for others who are not Jewish.

I commend you, but when I think of Judaism the first thing that enters my mind is not healing the world. Judaism sort of embodies separation and division. It's an us against them type of focus. I'm not saying that all Jews have this attitude, but the vast majority do. So, I'm in awe when I encounter a Jew whose perspective on life is about healing the world.
Anonymous
Post 12/03/2017 08:32     Subject: Jewish Parents: Do you talk to your kids about God?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Immediate, non-Jewish PP and I will add that I think cultural Judaism goes beyond bagels. There is a commitment to improving the world, educating oneself, valuing history and community. Many of the non-believing Jews I know would identify these concepts as part of their cultural Jewish identity.


While these are certainly Jewish mitzvot, what is happening in Judaism in Reform and Conservative movements is a shift away from G-d and a full on takeover of Liberalism. I have been to synagogues that sound more like a meeting of Communist sympathizers than a Jewish service.

As a core belief, Reform Judaism is committed to tikkun olam , healing the world, and gemilut chasadim, acts of loving kindness. This is regardless of level of belief in God. Is that what you’re referring to? It’s one of the things I love about being a Reform Jew, and certainly goes beyond bagels and lox.
Anonymous
Post 12/03/2017 08:18     Subject: Jewish Parents: Do you talk to your kids about God?
Anonymous wrote:Immediate, non-Jewish PP and I will add that I think cultural Judaism goes beyond bagels. There is a commitment to improving the world, educating oneself, valuing history and community. Many of the non-believing Jews I know would identify these concepts as part of their cultural Jewish identity.


While these are certainly Jewish mitzvot, what is happening in Judaism in Reform and Conservative movements is a shift away from G-d and a full on takeover of Liberalism. I have been to synagogues that sound more like a meeting of Communist sympathizers than a Jewish service.