Anonymous
11/29/2017 06:45
Subject: Re:Fcps - NNAT
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I'm equating the two because the school equates the two. Don't be obtuse. Just because you didn't want to PAY for one type of prepping, but opted to instead pay for a cheaper type of prepping, doesn't change the fact that you prepped. Look, it isn't a big deal, but it is against what the county wants, against what the purpose of the testing is supposed to evidence, and if you nevertheless elect to prep., own it rather than hide behind the, "Well, I didn't prep as much as some people, so don't lump me with them!"
I agree with you. But at this point, prepping is pretty widespread, the county has no way to prevent it, and the payoff (getting into AAP) can be huge. If the county truly doesn't want people to prep, it needs to come up with a better system. I'll admit that I kind of feel like an idiot for not prepping my child, who ended up being rejected with a just under cutoff CogAT score and a 15 GBRS (admitted on appeal, though). One more correct answer would have led to an in-pool score and presumably not having to deal with the appeals process. I'm not saying it's right to prep, but I can sympathize with the people who choose to do so in light of the way the current process works.
+1. Same exact experience here. My kid got 95th/97th percentiles on the tests and was rejected the first time (he did get in on appeal with a strong WISC). I did not prep him and felt like a fool when I heard several of the neighborhood moms talking about how they'd sent their kids to classes and bought books tailored to the tests. I obviously can't guarantee that prepping would have increased my kid's scores to over the cutoff on the first round, but I seriously doubt it would have hurt.
Did you not prep your child because you had high morale, didn't have time/money or simply weren't aware of the prep school existence?
Different PP, we did not prep because we did not see a need to prep. They qualified anyway.
Anonymous
11/29/2017 06:43
Subject: Re:Fcps - NNAT
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I'm equating the two because the school equates the two. Don't be obtuse. Just because you didn't want to PAY for one type of prepping, but opted to instead pay for a cheaper type of prepping, doesn't change the fact that you prepped. Look, it isn't a big deal, but it is against what the county wants, against what the purpose of the testing is supposed to evidence, and if you nevertheless elect to prep., own it rather than hide behind the, "Well, I didn't prep as much as some people, so don't lump me with them!"
I agree with you. But at this point, prepping is pretty widespread, the county has no way to prevent it, and the payoff (getting into AAP) can be huge. If the county truly doesn't want people to prep, it needs to come up with a better system. I'll admit that I kind of feel like an idiot for not prepping my child, who ended up being rejected with a just under cutoff CogAT score and a 15 GBRS (admitted on appeal, though). One more correct answer would have led to an in-pool score and presumably not having to deal with the appeals process. I'm not saying it's right to prep, but I can sympathize with the people who choose to do so in light of the way the current process works.
+1. Same exact experience here. My kid got 95th/97th percentiles on the tests and was rejected the first time (he did get in on appeal with a strong WISC). I did not prep him and felt like a fool when I heard several of the neighborhood moms talking about how they'd sent their kids to classes and bought books tailored to the tests. I obviously can't guarantee that prepping would have increased my kid's scores to over the cutoff on the first round, but I seriously doubt it would have hurt.
Different PP, we did not prep because we didn’t feel the need. They qualified anyway.
Did you not prep your child because you had high morale, didn't have time/money or simply weren't aware of the prep school existence?
Anonymous
11/29/2017 05:42
Subject: Fcps - NNAT
*on
Anonymous
11/29/2017 05:42
Subject: Re:Fcps - NNAT
I doubt that you can turn a kid who is a 100 (not up to AAP) into a 145 (definitely capable of AAP work) on the NNAT.
My kid found the NNAT very confusing and got a 100 on it, then got a very high score of the CoGAT. She is in AAP and is thriving. Not posting to advocate prep, but the NNAT is not intuitive, especially for kids who are highly verbal rather than visuospatially inclined. I would have done terribly on it as a child (despite testing as highly gifted). It might be beneficial to at least explain what it is and what types of questions your kid will see.
Anonymous
11/28/2017 23:58
Subject: Re:Fcps - NNAT
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I'm equating the two because the school equates the two. Don't be obtuse. Just because you didn't want to PAY for one type of prepping, but opted to instead pay for a cheaper type of prepping, doesn't change the fact that you prepped. Look, it isn't a big deal, but it is against what the county wants, against what the purpose of the testing is supposed to evidence, and if you nevertheless elect to prep., own it rather than hide behind the, "Well, I didn't prep as much as some people, so don't lump me with them!"
I agree with you. But at this point, prepping is pretty widespread, the county has no way to prevent it, and the payoff (getting into AAP) can be huge. If the county truly doesn't want people to prep, it needs to come up with a better system. I'll admit that I kind of feel like an idiot for not prepping my child, who ended up being rejected with a just under cutoff CogAT score and a 15 GBRS (admitted on appeal, though). One more correct answer would have led to an in-pool score and presumably not having to deal with the appeals process. I'm not saying it's right to prep, but I can sympathize with the people who choose to do so in light of the way the current process works.
+1. Same exact experience here. My kid got 95th/97th percentiles on the tests and was rejected the first time (he did get in on appeal with a strong WISC). I did not prep him and felt like a fool when I heard several of the neighborhood moms talking about how they'd sent their kids to classes and bought books tailored to the tests. I obviously can't guarantee that prepping would have increased my kid's scores to over the cutoff on the first round, but I seriously doubt it would have hurt.
Did you not prep your child because you had high morale, didn't have time/money or simply weren't aware of the prep school existence?
Anonymous
11/28/2017 21:00
Subject: Re:Fcps - NNAT
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I'm equating the two because the school equates the two. Don't be obtuse. Just because you didn't want to PAY for one type of prepping, but opted to instead pay for a cheaper type of prepping, doesn't change the fact that you prepped. Look, it isn't a big deal, but it is against what the county wants, against what the purpose of the testing is supposed to evidence, and if you nevertheless elect to prep., own it rather than hide behind the, "Well, I didn't prep as much as some people, so don't lump me with them!"
I agree with you. But at this point, prepping is pretty widespread, the county has no way to prevent it, and the payoff (getting into AAP) can be huge. If the county truly doesn't want people to prep, it needs to come up with a better system. I'll admit that I kind of feel like an idiot for not prepping my child, who ended up being rejected with a just under cutoff CogAT score and a 15 GBRS (admitted on appeal, though). One more correct answer would have led to an in-pool score and presumably not having to deal with the appeals process. I'm not saying it's right to prep, but I can sympathize with the people who choose to do so in light of the way the current process works.
+1. Same exact experience here. My kid got 95th/97th percentiles on the tests and was rejected the first time (he did get in on appeal with a strong WISC). I did not prep him and felt like a fool when I heard several of the neighborhood moms talking about how they'd sent their kids to classes and bought books tailored to the tests. I obviously can't guarantee that prepping would have increased my kid's scores to over the cutoff on the first round, but I seriously doubt it would have hurt.
Anonymous
11/28/2017 19:34
Subject: Re:Fcps - NNAT
I have a 3rd grader in Level IV AAP and a 1st grader. We bought a practice test for older child to familiarize him with the test. He made a few careless errors and I told him to take his time on the actual test. This kid loves puzzles, legos and games and thought the test was fun. He scored in 99th percentile and is thriving in AAP. He got all 4s on his report card.
My younger child is a far better reader than my older child was at this age. We just bought a practice book and he consistently gets more than 50% wrong. Even when I sit next to him and try to help, he will get the same question wrong 3 times before answering correctly. No amount of prep will get this kid in the 99th percentile like his brother. We did not get through one test and I do not plan on forcing it.
Really don’t think you can prep yourself into AAP. Maybe someone who would score 95 can push to 97.
I answered last year how I bought a practice test on amazon and a few people accused me of admitting to cheating.
My younger child is a far better reader than my older child was at this age. We just bought a practice book and he consistently gets more than 50% wrong. Even when I sit next to him and try to help, he will get the same question wrong 3 times before answering correctly. No amount of prep will get this kid in the 99th percentile like his brother. We did not get through one test and I do not plan on forcing it.
Really don’t think you can prep yourself into AAP. Maybe someone who would score 95 can push to 97.
I answered last year how I bought a practice test on amazon and a few people accused me of admitting to cheating.
Anonymous
11/28/2017 18:40
Subject: Fcps - NNAT
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why do people keep saying they figure prepping doesn't make a difference? Why wouldn't it???
It can, but not significantly. For instance, .
It depends on what you consider to be significant. The ceilings on each section of the CogAT are low enough that getting 1 or 2 questions correct that otherwise would be wrong could be the difference between a 95th percentile score and an in-pool one. For example, my kid got 49/52 on one section of the CogAT and 48/52 on another, for scores of 130 and 128 on each section. One more correct answer on either section could have increased the scores pretty significantly and almost certainly would have led to an in-pool composite.
It won't raise a 100 to a 132, but it easily could cause a child who should score a 115 to instead score a 125. Or it could turn a 125 into an in-pool score. And either of those cases could be the difference between being accepted and being rejected.
Anonymous
11/28/2017 17:20
Subject: Fcps - NNAT
Anonymous wrote:Why do people keep saying they figure prepping doesn't make a difference? Why wouldn't it???
It can, but not significantly. For instance, if your kid was bright to begin with, the error rate in prep may decrease by about 5%. However, from my personal experience, the error rate doesn't change. It honestly doesn't-- and we went through it for both NNAT and Cogat. When we did practice exams, if he was tired or cranky, his scores plummeted. If he was rested and had a good meal, he did great. That's why it's more important for them to sleep and eat a decent breakfast.
But I also think of it like SAT prep. It has more to do with familiarization and speed. So if you kid goes in confident and knows to spend time to be careful, they will have a better chance at doing their best the day of the exam. It won't make them a genius though.
Anonymous
11/28/2017 17:12
Subject: Fcps - NNAT
I prepped. He got 43/45 of the questions.
I went to testingmom and paid for 3 months. I downloaded all of their materials and made my kid go through the digital testing to make sure they understood the format.
He went from getting 10% wrong to getting 10% wrong on testingmom. In fact it was zero improvement over time.
But, after reading a lot of this forum, the cutoff score is 97% to be in-pool. If he had gotten a 95% on the NNAT, we would be prepping for the CoGat. If he had gotten 75%, nope. But the fact of the matter is that this area, so many people prep that a 95% score without prep would have been devastating-- because he would need to prep more to be ready for the Cogat. So a gentle prepping to make sure the test was as best as he could do was better than no prep at all.
Does it make the score better? Not much. Does it matter? Only if you have a cutoff issue, IMHO. But his score was so high and his prep rate scores so unchanging over time that I don't think it would have mattered in the end.
I went to testingmom and paid for 3 months. I downloaded all of their materials and made my kid go through the digital testing to make sure they understood the format.
He went from getting 10% wrong to getting 10% wrong on testingmom. In fact it was zero improvement over time.
But, after reading a lot of this forum, the cutoff score is 97% to be in-pool. If he had gotten a 95% on the NNAT, we would be prepping for the CoGat. If he had gotten 75%, nope. But the fact of the matter is that this area, so many people prep that a 95% score without prep would have been devastating-- because he would need to prep more to be ready for the Cogat. So a gentle prepping to make sure the test was as best as he could do was better than no prep at all.
Does it make the score better? Not much. Does it matter? Only if you have a cutoff issue, IMHO. But his score was so high and his prep rate scores so unchanging over time that I don't think it would have mattered in the end.
Anonymous
11/28/2017 15:40
Subject: Re:Fcps - NNAT
Anonymous wrote:
I'm equating the two because the school equates the two. Don't be obtuse. Just because you didn't want to PAY for one type of prepping, but opted to instead pay for a cheaper type of prepping, doesn't change the fact that you prepped. Look, it isn't a big deal, but it is against what the county wants, against what the purpose of the testing is supposed to evidence, and if you nevertheless elect to prep., own it rather than hide behind the, "Well, I didn't prep as much as some people, so don't lump me with them!"
I agree with you. But at this point, prepping is pretty widespread, the county has no way to prevent it, and the payoff (getting into AAP) can be huge. If the county truly doesn't want people to prep, it needs to come up with a better system. I'll admit that I kind of feel like an idiot for not prepping my child, who ended up being rejected with a just under cutoff CogAT score and a 15 GBRS (admitted on appeal, though). One more correct answer would have led to an in-pool score and presumably not having to deal with the appeals process. I'm not saying it's right to prep, but I can sympathize with the people who choose to do so in light of the way the current process works.
Anonymous
11/28/2017 15:17
Subject: Re:Fcps - NNAT
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The school will show them the concept of the test. The above poster is wrong and if she did that, she prepped. Nothing needed...and I'm not sure pepping helps that much or else wouldn't less people be upset their kids werent admitted?
If prepping doesn't help "that much" (and I agree that it doesn't), then what's the problem? You can't have it both ways (i.e. prepping doesn't help AND it's not fair to prep).
I don't believe in spending money to send kids to NNAT prep classes. But, I did show my kids a book of mind puzzles similar to the NNAT so that they could get the idea. I don't think it changed their score much, but it did give them the comfort to understand what the idea of it was. Even if you've seen the idea of it (i.e. you turn the figure), if a kid isn't analytical, they won't "get" the analogies the test is looking for. Previewing the test lowers test anxiety. If I show my kid a book of brain puzzles (that are similar to the NNAT), how is that any more "wrong" than a family that just likes to do puzzles for weekend family times? I think those things are fine, and frankly, should be encouraged!
Those activities are very different from signing a kid up for NNAT test prep classes, spending several hundred dollars and giving the kid the impression that this is a very important test and creating a pressure environment. I doubt that you can't turn a kid who is a 100 (not up to AAP) into a 145 (definitely capable of AAP work) on the NNAT. But, you probably can get them 5-10 extra points by teaching them how to think through. That's why it is good that the committee looks at more than one data point.
I can have it both ways. The rules say don't prep (per our principal, directly to parents at the AAP info meetings). Prepping won't help that much, is my GUESS. So yes, you can definitely have it as you are saying. You don't want to hear it b/c you prepped your kid.
depends how you define "prepped" -- showed a book -- yep! Paid for classes? No.
You keep equating the two as equal. They are not.
I'm equating the two because the school equates the two. Don't be obtuse. Just because you didn't want to PAY for one type of prepping, but opted to instead pay for a cheaper type of prepping, doesn't change the fact that you prepped. Look, it isn't a big deal, but it is against what the county wants, against what the purpose of the testing is supposed to evidence, and if you nevertheless elect to prep., own it rather than hide behind the, "Well, I didn't prep as much as some people, so don't lump me with them!"
Totally agree.
Anonymous
11/28/2017 15:16
Subject: Fcps - NNAT
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I would prep your child by telling them to look at all the answer choices and not rush. I didn’t do that with my child and the score reflected the rushing. Fast forward a year later where I told my child to take his time on the cigar and voila 20 point increase.
Because my DC did a lot better on cogat and wisc, I wondered if my kid was messing around on the NNAT bc it was the first computer test DC had taken. I'm hoping the iReady actually helps my younger ones just with the format of taking a computer test.
Or it could be your child evolved(smarter/discipline/focused/knowledgeable etc.) in 2nd grade. All FCPS student gets same exposure to computer in school starting from kindergarten.
Yes, that could be true too. I think first grade is young.
Anonymous
11/28/2017 15:15
Subject: Fcps - NNAT
Why do people keep saying they figure prepping doesn't make a difference? Why wouldn't it???
Anonymous
11/28/2017 15:10
Subject: Re:Fcps - NNAT
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The school will show them the concept of the test. The above poster is wrong and if she did that, she prepped. Nothing needed...and I'm not sure pepping helps that much or else wouldn't less people be upset their kids werent admitted?
If prepping doesn't help "that much" (and I agree that it doesn't), then what's the problem? You can't have it both ways (i.e. prepping doesn't help AND it's not fair to prep).
I don't believe in spending money to send kids to NNAT prep classes. But, I did show my kids a book of mind puzzles similar to the NNAT so that they could get the idea. I don't think it changed their score much, but it did give them the comfort to understand what the idea of it was. Even if you've seen the idea of it (i.e. you turn the figure), if a kid isn't analytical, they won't "get" the analogies the test is looking for. Previewing the test lowers test anxiety. If I show my kid a book of brain puzzles (that are similar to the NNAT), how is that any more "wrong" than a family that just likes to do puzzles for weekend family times? I think those things are fine, and frankly, should be encouraged!
Those activities are very different from signing a kid up for NNAT test prep classes, spending several hundred dollars and giving the kid the impression that this is a very important test and creating a pressure environment. I doubt that you can't turn a kid who is a 100 (not up to AAP) into a 145 (definitely capable of AAP work) on the NNAT. But, you probably can get them 5-10 extra points by teaching them how to think through. That's why it is good that the committee looks at more than one data point.
I can have it both ways. The rules say don't prep (per our principal, directly to parents at the AAP info meetings). Prepping won't help that much, is my GUESS. So yes, you can definitely have it as you are saying. You don't want to hear it b/c you prepped your kid.
depends how you define "prepped" -- showed a book -- yep! Paid for classes? No.
You keep equating the two as equal. They are not.
I'm equating the two because the school equates the two. Don't be obtuse. Just because you didn't want to PAY for one type of prepping, but opted to instead pay for a cheaper type of prepping, doesn't change the fact that you prepped. Look, it isn't a big deal, but it is against what the county wants, against what the purpose of the testing is supposed to evidence, and if you nevertheless elect to prep., own it rather than hide behind the, "Well, I didn't prep as much as some people, so don't lump me with them!"