Following type of kids suffer in TJ:

1) Over accelerated
2) Pushed by parents
3) Over prepped when entering TJ
4) Parents having unrealistic opinion of their kids. Many parents think their Jane or John is a super smart or truly gifted kid.

Egos are crushed in TJ. But TJ also makes kids better. If and when they graduate, their levels are very high.

I know a lot of parents had hoped that the new principal would establish a better tone at the top, and tackle some of TJ’s problems with things like student stress and mental health and homework load and cheating. It has been very disappointing that they are not doing that.

As for the math department, some kids learn well by drill and kill. But other kids don’t. Lecture, homework, homework quiz, rinse reaper, test, new unit. They zip through so fast, there is no time to dig deep, address different learning styles, have projects, do hands on application. Every other class is a nice mix of lectures, group projects, individual projects, labs, etc. they need to slow down and take the time to let kids apply the math they are learning. Drill and kill turns a lot of talented math students off of math.

Anonymous wrote:I went to the panel and have a very different reaction. Perhaps because my kid hasn't been complaining about Math 4. I think the math instruction has been fine. I did wish there were fewer homework packets -- should be one mandatory packet and think the other packets are great for kids who need extra practice. They appear to have recently made that change. I think tests can be hard and it is OK if kids do badly on them sometimes. I think it is good to have a struggle with the material sometimes. I think the teachers have ample opportunities to get extra help. I think parents need to stop complaining whenever their kids do less well than they expect. I think kids need to learn to handle these issues themselves. I found the reaction of some of the parents in the audience to be very unpleasant and very helicopter-ish.

+1

I went to the panel and have a very different reaction. Perhaps because my kid hasn't been complaining about Math 4. I think the math instruction has been fine. I did wish there were fewer homework packets -- should be one mandatory packet and think the other packets are great for kids who need extra practice. They appear to have recently made that change. I think tests can be hard and it is OK if kids do badly on them sometimes. I think it is good to have a struggle with the material sometimes. I think the teachers have ample opportunities to get extra help. I think parents need to stop complaining whenever their kids do less well than they expect. I think kids need to learn to handle these issues themselves. I found the reaction of some of the parents in the audience to be very unpleasant and very helicopter-ish.

TJ parent here. Our DC isn’t one to complain and DC’s reaction whenever I have asked about teaching quality and/or workload, DC’s response has been that the school is supposed to be challenging and students should expect to work hard, though that hasn’t stopped me from worrying as a parent about the stress level. DC has had some of the math teachers that other families have complained were incompetent and has said that those teachers aren’t bad teachers - it’s just that the content is hard and comprehensive. There are several tutoring options available and the Math department, in particular, really makes themselves available to students at lunch and during 8th period. If your DC is struggling (and struggling means B- or lower grades ... Bs are NOT bad math grades for TJ), then perhaps there are resources available they haven’t tried? And I echo that you should not try to accelerate through TJ Math. I know of only about 3 students who managed that successfully. I do think that the bias will be toward making things easier in the future, but that change will take a while to happen. And please do note that many of the TJ Vents posts of the most unhappy sounding students discuss how their parents are not understanding that Bs are GOOD grades at TJ — screaming at their kids when they bring home something less than an A.

Parent of current TJ student. Her math teachers have been great. Then again she hasn't been racing along. Maybe slow the f---k down on pushing kids through acceleration?

Anonymous wrote:PP, thanks for your input. I felt the same. Also, i felt that this event should have been in the evening. So that more parents could have been there. I was not able to go because of work, but now I feel that even if I had taken half day off to go, It may still have been useless. Was there any comment about only why less than 100 parents were there and not a big representation?

DH went for our family becausehe’s the Math Parent, and I couldn’t miss work. He guessed more than 100 parents. Considering it is geared towards the 900 kids in the freshman and sophomore classes, and was an optional panel on a Friday morning, I think it was a huge turnout. It didn’t get any more billing than a random PTA meeting, so I think it says something that that many parents took time off of work to show up. And he agreed that it looked like a lot of parents had left work to be there.

And yes, he thought they were blaming the kids for an institutional failure. The feeling seems to be that most kids (50% or more) are struggling in some fashion in math. At TJ, the problem is not that the kids suck at math, and it is not that they are apathetic.


I will say my kid has had amazing teachers at TJ. Strong in humanities. The band director is awesome. Very good science. Okay CS. 4 terrible teachers (current sophomore). 1 in Design Tech. That’s a whole different thread. And his 3 math teachers. They all sucked. The entire math 4 team is new this year. I don’t know why TJ isn’t attracting and retaining better math teachers. It would seem like a good gig— higher pay, and smart students that love math.

And they need to slow the f—k down. It isn’t a race.

PP, thanks for your input. I felt the same. Also, i felt that this event should have been in the evening. So that more parents could have been there. I was not able to go because of work, but now I feel that even if I had taken half day off to go, It may still have been useless. Was there any comment about only why less than 100 parents were there and not a big representation?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone go to the math discussion Friday morning? Any feedback?

There were easily 100 parents there. Mid-morning on a Friday. And mostly freshmen and sophomores. By junior/senior, most kids are out of Math 1-6. Many had clearly left work to come. Many were very frustrated.

My takeaway: Everybody recognizes the math department is broken. Most people realize they are over accelerating, and that maybe teaching all of trig in 8 weeks isn’t doing the kids any favors. Everybody realizes the current system is pushing kids who are really talented in math away from engineering by convincing them they suck at math. Nobody in the math department seemed that receptive to concerns or seems particularly interested in fixing it. The attitude from the math department seemed to be: if you don’t like it, send your kid back to their base school.

Several parents I know are very frustrated that the new principal isn’t providing more leadership on this.

This is exactly what I took away from it. I found it to be essentially a lecture to parents about how our kids just need to work harder/try harder/be better. Not sure why they couldn't just tape it and email it out to us--the fact I left work to come was extremely maddening. I found it laughable they suggested kids need to learn to check over their work when taking a test--with no recognition of the fact that the kids would check over their tests before turning them in if the tests weren't so bloody long that they are racing through just to have some hope of finishing them. I'd love to invite the panel to spend one evening in my home watching my 2 TJ kids study and prepare, not sure the teachers would be able to stay up until 2am like my kids have to, but they would see they aren't slacking and would love to spend more time doing practice problems but EVERY CLASS has so much work they're lucky if they can even get the bare minimum done. And the fact that TJ is now emailing all of us about the comments they've found on TJ Vents--nice they are providing us the Suicide hotline # for the 100th time, but I'd like to know what the heck they plan on doing to change the culture so kids aren't pushed beyond what they can handle. When are we going to get THAT email. Not holding my breath.

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone go to the math discussion Friday morning? Any feedback?

There were easily 100 parents there. Mid-morning on a Friday. And mostly freshmen and sophomores. By junior/senior, most kids are out of Math 1-6. Many had clearly left work to come. Many were very frustrated.

My takeaway: Everybody recognizes the math department is broken. Most people realize they are over accelerating, and that maybe teaching all of trig in 8 weeks isn’t doing the kids any favors. Everybody realizes the current system is pushing kids who are really talented in math away from engineering by convincing them they suck at math. Nobody in the math department seemed that receptive to concerns or seems particularly interested in fixing it. The attitude from the math department seemed to be: if you don’t like it, send your kid back to their base school.

Several parents I know are very frustrated that the new principal isn’t providing more leadership on this.

Anonymous wrote:Pp- What do you mean by this? It is very disheartening to see my child work 3x as hard as he ever has and get such poor results. Is it the kids that change going forward or the teachers?

Your kid will hopefully get more efficient and better at managing the workload. The teachers are less sympathetic after freshman year, because they excpect kids to have adjusted.

TJ reality: working three times as hard for lower grades. This is why kids transfer back to their base school, starting at the end of the first semester.

Did anyone go to the math discussion Friday morning? Any feedback?