Anonymous
Post 11/17/2017 10:17     Subject: School thinks DS has ASD, dev ped does not agree. Now what?
Anonymous wrote:OP again. I suspect the school is pushing the ASD diagnosis in order to get him an IEP. He didn't meet eligibility last year (prior to 504 diagnosis) and still wouldn't based on grades.


OP, I don't think you are interpreting them correctly. For the IEP, he needs to have a diagnosis and he already has one. The specifics of the diagnosis might help people understand child better or might encourage them to look at different interventions but his access to special education would not change because he already qualifies under OHI with the ADHD.
Anonymous
Post 11/17/2017 07:54     Subject: School thinks DS has ASD, dev ped does not agree. Now what?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of posters who have weighed in with advice about how things should work and whether something is legal or not. I'm here to tell you how it really works.

You cannot get any type of services, OT, or otherwise with a 504 plan. You need an IEP. This is just a fact.

But it is pretty hard to get an IEP for ADHD, especially for a child who has good grades, as many schools get push back from the central office for that. It's more rare to have an autism diagnosis so that would help your case or the school's case if you/they believe your son needs an IEP.

What kinds of behavioral issues does your child have? Is it inattention, being silly, defiance? Meltdowns at transitions or for other reasons? Peer conflicts? Is the behavior plan working or does he need explicit instruction on how to deal with issues that come up?

If the behavior plan is not working and you agree your child needs an IEP letting them move ahead with the autism testing will be the path of least resistance.

Some people have no problem with this even if they don't believe in the diagnosis but others do. This is up to you, but keep in mind you may have to expend significant financial resources and waste a lot of time if you try for an IEP under OHI.

Also I would think carefully about the teacher ratings and try to get more information about her concerns. The developmental ped. may be more of an expert on autism but the teacher is probably more of an expert on your child. While your child may not have autism the teacher had enough concerns that her ratings on the evaluation show he may have some characteristics which probably need to be addressed given the behavioral issues.


My gosh. Are you a teacher? You are a walking legal liability for your school if so.

ADHD is not a "hard" diagnosis for which to get an IEP. It is very clear in the law, regulation, Dept of Ed guidance, etc. that ADHD falls under OHI and it is also very clear that kids with good grades can qualify for IEPs. A kid does not have to "be behind" as in be behind grade level, but they do have to demonstrate "adverse impact to education." This could be something as simple as Getting a B in a class instead of an A due to many missing homework assignments. Also, a kid could need "specialized instruction", which could be as simple as instruction in how to use a planner and daily monitoring faded over time.

Also, it is one of the bedrock principles of IEPs that disability codes do not predetermine services. If a school is saying a child with ADHD can only have 504 plans and these specific services but a child with an ASD code automatically gets an IEP and a different batch of services and special instruction -- well that is illegal. IDEA mandates individual consideration of the child's needs.

I agree with others that it is important to make sure you think your child's disability is properly reflected in the code. I made sure that my child's code was SLD (specific learning disability) and not ADHD, even though he has both. I though the SLD code better reflected his need for specialized language instruction, whereas an ADHD code would have sent the message to teachers that his problem is attention. He can be inattentive, but it is more due to difficulty processing multiple language streams or tasks, rather than simple inattention. Teachers don't get access to the entire IEP file with all the detailed reports. They get a 1-2 page summary of the disability code and the accommodations. Whether we like it or not, the codes by themselves are not very descriptive and are a shorthand way of conveying a very stereotyped un-nuanced view of student strengths and weaknesses.

Also, it is not always necessary to "expend significant financial resources" to get an IEP. We have found that it is often enough to make a complaint in writing to a supervisor in special education or the 504 office that explains how the school-based team is "not in compliance" with IDEA. When I say complaint, I don't mean a formal complaint filing is necessary. Just a simple factual letter with a note that what is happening is "not in compliance" with IDEA or Sec. 504 (whichever is applicable) and you would like the supervisor to help the school team fix things so that you do not have to "pursue due process resolution". Special ed supervisors typically have a much better understanding of legal requirements and the (expensive) consequences of non-compliance.


You say this same thing on every similar thread. I don't disagree with you. This _is_ how the process should work, but it often does not and I think it's important for OP to know this going in. I have a similar child and have spent years trying to an IEP. I wish someone had told me this when I first started out because we wasted a full year trying to do what you did and had to pay thousands to a consultant.
Anonymous
Post 11/17/2017 01:14     Subject: School thinks DS has ASD, dev ped does not agree. Now what?
Anonymous wrote:School admin here. Very weird that the teacher A. shared with you her "diagnosis" and B. showed you her form.



Wierd only because school policy seems to be against it. But I wish someone on the school staff had told me what they suspected in Kindergarten or 1st grade. I only found out what they thought later, but it would have saved us two years of struggling against baffling problems.

And I don't mean that teachers are in a position to diagnose anything. But they could talk about suspicions that parents may want to get checked out, or make a referral to the school psychologist. I think schools think this is illegal, or will get them sued. But IDEA says "either a parent of a child or a public agency may initiate a request for an initial evaluation to determine if the child is a child with a disability." But schools never seem to take the initiative. They wait for parents to ask, even if it's clear that the parents don't know what to do. As we didn't.
Anonymous
Post 11/17/2017 00:33     Subject: School thinks DS has ASD, dev ped does not agree. Now what?
OP, I've been in a similar situation, and the best thing to do is just let the school do the testing they want. It will provide you with another datapoint and you don't have to agree with the results. The way you describe child, ADHD, social pragmatic issues, behavioral issues -- this will look like autism to many teachers. What you need to focus on is the specific needs that are interfering with his education, including the social issues.

Once you understand what those issues are, request an IEP meeting to address them. If your kids issues are severe enough to create teacher concern, you are likely eligible for an IEP.

You have a proactive teacher. That's good. Talk to her about what she is seeing in classroom. It may be very different from what you see at home or what the dev ped sees. t
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2017 23:36     Subject: School thinks DS has ASD, dev ped does not agree. Now what?
Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of posters who have weighed in with advice about how things should work and whether something is legal or not. I'm here to tell you how it really works.

You cannot get any type of services, OT, or otherwise with a 504 plan. You need an IEP. This is just a fact.

But it is pretty hard to get an IEP for ADHD, especially for a child who has good grades, as many schools get push back from the central office for that. It's more rare to have an autism diagnosis so that would help your case or the school's case if you/they believe your son needs an IEP.

What kinds of behavioral issues does your child have? Is it inattention, being silly, defiance? Meltdowns at transitions or for other reasons? Peer conflicts? Is the behavior plan working or does he need explicit instruction on how to deal with issues that come up?

If the behavior plan is not working and you agree your child needs an IEP letting them move ahead with the autism testing will be the path of least resistance.

Some people have no problem with this even if they don't believe in the diagnosis but others do. This is up to you, but keep in mind you may have to expend significant financial resources and waste a lot of time if you try for an IEP under OHI.

Also I would think carefully about the teacher ratings and try to get more information about her concerns. The developmental ped. may be more of an expert on autism but the teacher is probably more of an expert on your child. While your child may not have autism the teacher had enough concerns that her ratings on the evaluation show he may have some characteristics which probably need to be addressed given the behavioral issues.


My gosh. Are you a teacher? You are a walking legal liability for your school if so.

ADHD is not a "hard" diagnosis for which to get an IEP. It is very clear in the law, regulation, Dept of Ed guidance, etc. that ADHD falls under OHI and it is also very clear that kids with good grades can qualify for IEPs. A kid does not have to "be behind" as in be behind grade level, but they do have to demonstrate "adverse impact to education." This could be something as simple as Getting a B in a class instead of an A due to many missing homework assignments. Also, a kid could need "specialized instruction", which could be as simple as instruction in how to use a planner and daily monitoring faded over time.

Also, it is one of the bedrock principles of IEPs that disability codes do not predetermine services. If a school is saying a child with ADHD can only have 504 plans and these specific services but a child with an ASD code automatically gets an IEP and a different batch of services and special instruction -- well that is illegal. IDEA mandates individual consideration of the child's needs.

I agree with others that it is important to make sure you think your child's disability is properly reflected in the code. I made sure that my child's code was SLD (specific learning disability) and not ADHD, even though he has both. I though the SLD code better reflected his need for specialized language instruction, whereas an ADHD code would have sent the message to teachers that his problem is attention. He can be inattentive, but it is more due to difficulty processing multiple language streams or tasks, rather than simple inattention. Teachers don't get access to the entire IEP file with all the detailed reports. They get a 1-2 page summary of the disability code and the accommodations. Whether we like it or not, the codes by themselves are not very descriptive and are a shorthand way of conveying a very stereotyped un-nuanced view of student strengths and weaknesses.

Also, it is not always necessary to "expend significant financial resources" to get an IEP. We have found that it is often enough to make a complaint in writing to a supervisor in special education or the 504 office that explains how the school-based team is "not in compliance" with IDEA. When I say complaint, I don't mean a formal complaint filing is necessary. Just a simple factual letter with a note that what is happening is "not in compliance" with IDEA or Sec. 504 (whichever is applicable) and you would like the supervisor to help the school team fix things so that you do not have to "pursue due process resolution". Special ed supervisors typically have a much better understanding of legal requirements and the (expensive) consequences of non-compliance.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2017 22:41     Subject: Re:School thinks DS has ASD, dev ped does not agree. Now what?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I haven't read all the responses but we faced a similar situation 2 years ago. The school claimed my child was on the spectrum and wanted to place him in an autism classroom. No specialist we had seen agreed.


Again, iep designations aren't diagnoses. The school suggested the placement as the best match to meet your kid's needs.


I disagree here. If the kid is not autistic then an autism classroom is not the place for him. And schools absolutely sometimes push to put kids in self-contained autism rooms who don’t belong there. (Ironically other parents have to fight bitterly to get INTO the autism program.) It’s all very individual based on the particular school and administration.


Exactly our case.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2017 22:26     Subject: Re:School thinks DS has ASD, dev ped does not agree. Now what?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I haven't read all the responses but we faced a similar situation 2 years ago. The school claimed my child was on the spectrum and wanted to place him in an autism classroom. No specialist we had seen agreed.


Again, iep designations aren't diagnoses. The school suggested the placement as the best match to meet your kid's needs.


I disagree here. If the kid is not autistic then an autism classroom is not the place for him. And schools absolutely sometimes push to put kids in self-contained autism rooms who don’t belong there. (Ironically other parents have to fight bitterly to get INTO the autism program.) It’s all very individual based on the particular school and administration.


Oh my lord. IEPs are a handful of designations written by congress 40 years ago. Schools don't have classrooms for every possible diagnosis in the DSM. They can have them for what's outlined in IDEA and FAPE. Your opinion doesn't mean anything. It's just the way things are.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2017 22:20     Subject: School thinks DS has ASD, dev ped does not agree. Now what?
Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of posters who have weighed in with advice about how things should work and whether something is legal or not. I'm here to tell you how it really works.

You cannot get any type of services, OT, or otherwise with a 504 plan. You need an IEP. This is just a fact.

But it is pretty hard to get an IEP for ADHD, especially for a child who has good grades, as many schools get push back from the central office for that. It's more rare to have an autism diagnosis so that would help your case or the school's case if you/they believe your son needs an IEP.

What kinds of behavioral issues does your child have? Is it inattention, being silly, defiance? Meltdowns at transitions or for other reasons? Peer conflicts? Is the behavior plan working or does he need explicit instruction on how to deal with issues that come up?

If the behavior plan is not working and you agree your child needs an IEP letting them move ahead with the autism testing will be the path of least resistance.

Some people have no problem with this even if they don't believe in the diagnosis but others do. This is up to you, but keep in mind you may have to expend significant financial resources and waste a lot of time if you try for an IEP under OHI.

Also I would think carefully about the teacher ratings and try to get more information about her concerns. The developmental ped. may be more of an expert on autism but the teacher is probably more of an expert on your child. While your child may not have autism the teacher had enough concerns that her ratings on the evaluation show he may have some characteristics which probably need to be addressed given the behavioral issues.


We have OT with a 504. So everyone's experience is different.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2017 22:03     Subject: Re:School thinks DS has ASD, dev ped does not agree. Now what?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I haven't read all the responses but we faced a similar situation 2 years ago. The school claimed my child was on the spectrum and wanted to place him in an autism classroom. No specialist we had seen agreed.


Again, iep designations aren't diagnoses. The school suggested the placement as the best match to meet your kid's needs.


I disagree here. If the kid is not autistic then an autism classroom is not the place for him. And schools absolutely sometimes push to put kids in self-contained autism rooms who don’t belong there. (Ironically other parents have to fight bitterly to get INTO the autism program.) It’s all very individual based on the particular school and administration.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2017 19:53     Subject: Re:School thinks DS has ASD, dev ped does not agree. Now what?
Anonymous wrote:I haven't read all the responses but we faced a similar situation 2 years ago. The school claimed my child was on the spectrum and wanted to place him in an autism classroom. No specialist we had seen agreed.


Again, iep designations aren't diagnoses. The school suggested the placement as the best match to meet your kid's needs.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2017 18:39     Subject: Re:School thinks DS has ASD, dev ped does not agree. Now what?
I haven't read all the responses but we faced a similar situation 2 years ago. The school claimed my child was on the spectrum and wanted to place him in an autism classroom. No specialist we had seen agreed.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2017 18:07     Subject: School thinks DS has ASD, dev ped does not agree. Now what?
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I should say that the neuropsych ruled out autism (though we did not do ADOS; neuropsych and dev ped did not think necessary).

Dev ped thinks DS is quiet, has some pragmatic language issues, and maybe some anxiety or other mood issues are emerging. Recommended OT to help with sensory issues that seem to be driving many of the behavior issues, and a social skills group with typical kids. Reluctant to add to meds right now, but we're going to check back in a few months to see if a mood stabilizer might help address the anxiety.

I don't trust the school to do anything either. But, I want to have a positive working relationship with them and make sure DS is getting what he needs. Has anyone ever gotten OT for sensory on a 504?

Thanks to all who navigate this every day—we are just at the start and it is so overwhelming.



This is why a neuropsch should include the ADOS. Also, they can't rule it out if they don't test.

Regardless, if your kids needs additional supports through an iep vs a 504, you may need to settle for services through autism vs OHI. It's not a diagnosis. So focus on what is important--getting the educational services your kid needs vs. quibbling over an educational label. The schools will stonewall you and they have deeper pockets.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2017 16:51     Subject: School thinks DS has ASD, dev ped does not agree. Now what?
There are a lot of posters who have weighed in with advice about how things should work and whether something is legal or not. I'm here to tell you how it really works.

You cannot get any type of services, OT, or otherwise with a 504 plan. You need an IEP. This is just a fact.

But it is pretty hard to get an IEP for ADHD, especially for a child who has good grades, as many schools get push back from the central office for that. It's more rare to have an autism diagnosis so that would help your case or the school's case if you/they believe your son needs an IEP.

What kinds of behavioral issues does your child have? Is it inattention, being silly, defiance? Meltdowns at transitions or for other reasons? Peer conflicts? Is the behavior plan working or does he need explicit instruction on how to deal with issues that come up?

If the behavior plan is not working and you agree your child needs an IEP letting them move ahead with the autism testing will be the path of least resistance.

Some people have no problem with this even if they don't believe in the diagnosis but others do. This is up to you, but keep in mind you may have to expend significant financial resources and waste a lot of time if you try for an IEP under OHI.

Also I would think carefully about the teacher ratings and try to get more information about her concerns. The developmental ped. may be more of an expert on autism but the teacher is probably more of an expert on your child. While your child may not have autism the teacher had enough concerns that her ratings on the evaluation show he may have some characteristics which probably need to be addressed given the behavioral issues.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2017 16:35     Subject: School thinks DS has ASD, dev ped does not agree. Now what?
I don't know about A but if you get a form filled out for a private eval the practioner will list what the teacher wrote so I don't think there is an issue with B. I would argue that it's actually the right thing to do as it gives the parent information she needs to help her child.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2017 16:27     Subject: School thinks DS has ASD, dev ped does not agree. Now what?
School admin here. Very weird that the teacher A. shared with you her "diagnosis" and B. showed you her form.