Anonymous
Post 11/01/2017 21:54     Subject: Re:PARCC Scores for Charters
Anonymous wrote:You have to dig into the test scores. Demographics are so, so important in how test scores come out.

We are at a charter with similar test scores to the ones you listed. We are also in bounds for one of the best DCPS schools with some of the highest test scores in the city. We are only in first grade though - we re-evaluate every year and could jump ship at some point for the good DCPS.

Why are we sticking with the charter for now?
-- bilingual school. we are a bilingual family that wants our child to know the non-US citizen's heritage language (Spanish in this case).
-- the median percentile growth (MPG) at our charter is higher than at the DCPS. This means that kids learn more in their classes in a given year than they would at the DCPS.
-- the reason growth is higher is that about 50% of the kids in the lower grades at the charter speak Spanish at home. It takes 8 years on average for ELL kid's English to catch up.
-- the scores reflect the above trend of ELL kids starting to catch up in the higher grades. 3rd grade scores are very low, 4th grade are higher, and 5th grade scores are almost the same as the DCPS. But the average score across those years is about 20 percentage points lower than the DCPS.
-- non-Latinos and non-ELLs score as highly as the same group at the DCPS.
-- the school is smaller and more welcoming than the DCPS.

From the data, my conclusion is that the education is just as good at the charter although the demographics are quite different. And your child comes out bilingual. But yes, the overall PARCC scores don't look very impressive compared to the DCPS.


"demographics" aren't an excuse. I want to see that the school does a good job closing the achievement gap. Some are better than others.
Anonymous
Post 11/01/2017 21:51     Subject: Re:PARCC Scores for Charters
You have to dig into the test scores. Demographics are so, so important in how test scores come out.

We are at a charter with similar test scores to the ones you listed. We are also in bounds for one of the best DCPS schools with some of the highest test scores in the city. We are only in first grade though - we re-evaluate every year and could jump ship at some point for the good DCPS.

Why are we sticking with the charter for now?
-- bilingual school. we are a bilingual family that wants our child to know the non-US citizen's heritage language (Spanish in this case).
-- the median percentile growth (MPG) at our charter is higher than at the DCPS. This means that kids learn more in their classes in a given year than they would at the DCPS.
-- the reason growth is higher is that about 50% of the kids in the lower grades at the charter speak Spanish at home. It takes 8 years on average for ELL kid's English to catch up.
-- the scores reflect the above trend of ELL kids starting to catch up in the higher grades. 3rd grade scores are very low, 4th grade are higher, and 5th grade scores are almost the same as the DCPS. But the average score across those years is about 20 percentage points lower than the DCPS.
-- non-Latinos and non-ELLs score as highly as the same group at the DCPS.
-- the school is smaller and more welcoming than the DCPS.

From the data, my conclusion is that the education is just as good at the charter although the demographics are quite different. And your child comes out bilingual. But yes, the overall PARCC scores don't look very impressive compared to the DCPS.
Anonymous
Post 11/01/2017 20:13     Subject: Re:PARCC Scores for Charters
Also, consider that the test scores you've quoted reflect different testing grades for different schools. This is a function of the way OSSE reports the scores, but it is important. CMI and ITS test 3rd-8th graders. The other schools (and most DCPS elementaries with high test scores) only test 3rd-5th graders.



+1. Comparing scores by grade between schools is much more accurate when the schools are testing different grades. It makes a big difference. For instance, if you take a look at 3rd grade scores, both ITS and CMI scored much better than their overall score shows.
Anonymous
Post 11/01/2017 20:03     Subject: PARCC Scores for Charters
OP, i have been having these exact same thoughts recently, from potentially over-hyped charters to questioning the given that a kid from educated parents will be fine wherever. I remember telling one of my child-free friends about the charters trend in DC, that high SES people opt into hippie-ish schools that downplay tests, and the low SES opt into "teaching to the test" schools and she was like "what if the rich people are wrong?" I think there may be some truth to it... From the scores, it seems clear that good DCPS schools trump good charters, and I think there are curricular reasons that this happens. My kids is at our middling DCPS now in pre-k 3 and he is really learning substantial stuff -- the curriculum is really fun, but rigorous. My friends at the charters you mentioned are playing and focused on socio-emotional growth. In talking to people in higher grades at both our DCPS and at charters, it seems like DCPS really gets them reading and doing math earlier. I'm sure that knowledge compounds as the years go on. I've completely turned around -- last year our lottery was full of those charters, but this year I am seriously considering moving into a good DCPS zone, like Ross or Oyster.
Anonymous
Post 11/01/2017 17:15     Subject: PARCC Scores for Charters
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Our charter did not have PARCC scores when we got in: Too new without testing grade.

We are very happy with our choice. Our child is in the testing grades now and has 5/5 on PARCC. Ultimately, it's how your child scores that counts for parents not the overall scores for the school. Kids from high SES backgrounds will test well pretty much anywhere.

We are low SES in one of the high performing DCPS. DC received 5/5 on Parcc both times. Peer group is important. Not sure how he would've done in lower performing school.


Peer group matters but it doesn't have to be everyone in the school. Jist enough.
Anonymous
Post 11/01/2017 16:27     Subject: PARCC Scores for Charters
Anonymous wrote:Our charter did not have PARCC scores when we got in: Too new without testing grade.

We are very happy with our choice. Our child is in the testing grades now and has 5/5 on PARCC. Ultimately, it's how your child scores that counts for parents not the overall scores for the school. Kids from high SES backgrounds will test well pretty much anywhere.

We are low SES in one of the high performing DCPS. DC received 5/5 on Parcc both times. Peer group is important. Not sure how he would've done in lower performing school.
Anonymous
Post 11/01/2017 16:26     Subject: PARCC Scores for Charters
Anonymous wrote:Our charter did not have PARCC scores when we got in: Too new without testing grade.

We are very happy with our choice. Our child is in the testing grades now and has 5/5 on PARCC. Ultimately, it's how your child scores that counts for parents not the overall scores for the school. Kids from high SES backgrounds will test well pretty much anywhere.


I dug into the data and this is actually not true (and not the metric I like anyway). Some of the HRCS have considerable differentials between how kids of similar backgrounds do, with a bigger acheivement gap, and worse outcomes for white kids as well, compared to our IB. Personally I don't think my child is perfect just b/c he is white and has educated parents. I think he actually needs to be taught. That said, if your IB is really struggling obviously those charters look better. AND if you prefer the charter's philosophy as a better fit for you, agree that the test scores shouldn't hold you back.
Anonymous
Post 11/01/2017 16:15     Subject: PARCC Scores for Charters
Our charter did not have PARCC scores when we got in: Too new without testing grade.

We are very happy with our choice. Our child is in the testing grades now and has 5/5 on PARCC. Ultimately, it's how your child scores that counts for parents not the overall scores for the school. Kids from high SES backgrounds will test well pretty much anywhere.
Anonymous
Post 11/01/2017 15:30     Subject: PARCC Scores for Charters
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:because those scores are higher than many if not most of the in-boundary public schools for the students who are attending the listed schools.


Yes.

PARCC Scores for my IB

PK3-8 16%/23%

PARCC Scores for my kids' charter

Elementary 52%/38%
MS 60%/59%




It's not that complicated. It comes down to choosing what's best for your kid among the available options. Sure, the scores at the listed schools aren't great, but compared to available options for most applicants, they are better. OP, are you trying to make a different point that I'm missing?

I guess you could be trying to say that there are other options with higher PARCC scores that don't seem as popular, is that it?




OP here. I was actually just trying to figure out why parents choose and revere charters when the PARCC scores don't indicate the students are achieving basic proficiencies -- which to me (since the students taking the tests have been there a few years) indicates a potential issue with the academics there/ the school's teaching methods. I understand that for parents wanting to stay in their current neighborhood, who aren't interested in or can't afford private school, they don't have another option. For us, staying in our neighborhood isn't that important, so we're considering a move elsewhere.

I really wanted a charter to work, but I base my decisions on fact-based information (like test scores) and my gut feel at school visits. I'm going to go to the open houses to get a better feel for the schools, but if most of the students aren't meeting basic proficiencies I don't think I'll end up sending my kids there. One less name dropped in the lottery... I'm sure no one will miss us.


I'm the previous poster you're responding to. I think I understand now. Since you are willing/able to move, you are wondering why you should try for one of the listed schools instead of moving to a location where the in boundary school has higher scores, right? I don't really have an answer for that that I can support with hard evidence. Our situation was similar a few years ago. We got into a charter (not one that's listed) and decided to stay. It's our 4th year now and we are very happy with our decision. We've continued to stay because of how our children are doing, not the overall PARCC scores for the school.
Anonymous
Post 11/01/2017 14:52     Subject: PARCC Scores for Charters
Anonymous wrote:Also, consider that the test scores you've quoted reflect different testing grades for different schools. This is a function of the way OSSE reports the scores, but it is important. CMI and ITS test 3rd-8th graders. The other schools (and most DCPS elementaries with high test scores) only test 3rd-5th graders.


This. OP, some people do not plan to stay in the area for middle or older elementary grades. So they choose based on reputation and programming and are more willing to tolerate low test scores.
Anonymous
Post 11/01/2017 14:51     Subject: PARCC Scores for Charters
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:because those scores are higher than many if not most of the in-boundary public schools for the students who are attending the listed schools.


This is the case for my family.

We are zoned for LaSalle Backus.

For 2015-2016

13.2% met or exceeded expectations on Math.
10.8% met expectations in ELA. No one exceeded.

We attend one of the schools above. Our children get a great education with extensive art, dance, and social and emotional educational. We are thrilled. And yes, they do great on tests so I’m not that worried. They love reading and love learning in general.

I am truly grateful to the founders of non-profit charter schools for offering my children educational opportunities they would not otherwise have in DC.

If it was your kid, would you truly feel differently? Would you feel comfortable sending your children to a school with the scores above?


I do. I would not want to continue to the testing grades, but for Pk3, PK4, and K, it has been good. Test scores are a function of demographics and the school is gentrifying. A lot of our low-scoring kids are recently arrived from other schools. The kids who have been at the school for a while do better. So dig into the data and you may be surprised.

I am the PP above. My oldest is in 2nd and the scores for LaSalle Backus have remained the same for the past decade. Do you send a child to LaSalle Backus? If so, id love to hear your experience especially with 3rd and up. If not? Then thanks for playing but no. There’s nothing exciting hiding in the test scores there. I named my zoned school, what’s yours?


Not gonna say because it would out me-- we are one of just a few gentrifying families in K. Sorry you aren't seeing improvement. I wish you well.
Anonymous
Post 11/01/2017 14:47     Subject: PARCC Scores for Charters
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:because those scores are higher than many if not most of the in-boundary public schools for the students who are attending the listed schools.


This is the case for my family.

We are zoned for LaSalle Backus.

For 2015-2016

13.2% met or exceeded expectations on Math.
10.8% met expectations in ELA. No one exceeded.

We attend one of the schools above. Our children get a great education with extensive art, dance, and social and emotional educational. We are thrilled. And yes, they do great on tests so I’m not that worried. They love reading and love learning in general.

I am truly grateful to the founders of non-profit charter schools for offering my children educational opportunities they would not otherwise have in DC.

If it was your kid, would you truly feel differently? Would you feel comfortable sending your children to a school with the scores above?


I do. I would not want to continue to the testing grades, but for Pk3, PK4, and K, it has been good. Test scores are a function of demographics and the school is gentrifying. A lot of our low-scoring kids are recently arrived from other schools. The kids who have been at the school for a while do better. So dig into the data and you may be surprised.

I am the PP above. My oldest is in 2nd and the scores for LaSalle Backus have remained the same for the past decade. Do you send a child to LaSalle Backus? If so, id love to hear your experience especially with 3rd and up. If not? Then thanks for playing but no. There’s nothing exciting hiding in the test scores there. I named my zoned school, what’s yours?
Anonymous
Post 11/01/2017 14:47     Subject: PARCC Scores for Charters
Also, consider that the test scores you've quoted reflect different testing grades for different schools. This is a function of the way OSSE reports the scores, but it is important. CMI and ITS test 3rd-8th graders. The other schools (and most DCPS elementaries with high test scores) only test 3rd-5th graders.
Anonymous
Post 11/01/2017 14:36     Subject: PARCC Scores for Charters
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:because those scores are higher than many if not most of the in-boundary public schools for the students who are attending the listed schools.


This is the case for my family.

We are zoned for LaSalle Backus.

For 2015-2016

13.2% met or exceeded expectations on Math.
10.8% met expectations in ELA. No one exceeded.

We attend one of the schools above. Our children get a great education with extensive art, dance, and social and emotional educational. We are thrilled. And yes, they do great on tests so I’m not that worried. They love reading and love learning in general.

I am truly grateful to the founders of non-profit charter schools for offering my children educational opportunities they would not otherwise have in DC.

If it was your kid, would you truly feel differently? Would you feel comfortable sending your children to a school with the scores above?


I do. I would not want to continue to the testing grades, but for Pk3, PK4, and K, it has been good. Test scores are a function of demographics and the school is gentrifying. A lot of our low-scoring kids are recently arrived from other schools. The kids who have been at the school for a while do better. So dig into the data and you may be surprised.
Anonymous
Post 11/01/2017 14:33     Subject: PARCC Scores for Charters
A lot of it is demographics driven too. Higher income students tend to have way less social issues and are generally more on the same level in the classroom. PTA can raise a lot more money etc.