Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought it was classic to not divulge salary history if possible. In other threads people would chastise OP for sharing it. NP.

That is what I thought although I know they could have gotten that information thru my references.

I have long disagreed with that stance. I believe you should give a target number (higher than your minimum of course). I don't like to waste time interviewing for jobs that canno meet my salary requirement. This tactic has never back fired on me, I know what the general rate is for my experience and education level.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought it was classic to not divulge salary history if possible. In other threads people would chastise OP for sharing it. NP.

If you can get around it smoothly, then sure, do that. For instance, instead of simply declining to answer the question and asking for the hiring range, OP could have stated, "The salary range I'm looking for now is $X-$Y. What is the hiring range for the position?" It doesn't directly answer the question but doesn't just refuse, and if they really want to know they can follow up. Some employers will insist on having the information, though, and if they're being insistent, refusing to divulge the information without good cause (e.g., your previous employer had a policy of salary confidentiality) may be a mark against you.

+1 if you can easily and nonconfrontationally avoid giving salary history, you should try to do so. However, in this case, they were insistent on having it, it sounds like OP didn't handle the request well and combined that with an unrealistic salary expectation. It isn't just the reluctance to disclose salary history that's the problem here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here:

Update! The employer wants to set up a call about my "questions" and where they are in the interview process. What should I say to let them know that I am yet interested in the job and to reduce the damage I've done going forward/redeem myself?

Don't bring up salary further for now unless they do. Focus instead on your interest not just in the job, but in the organization and its mission. Nonprofits know they can't pay as well and for-profit, so they're looking for people who have an interest in the purpose of the organization so that the satisfaction they get from being part of it will make up for the lower salary.

To prepare for salary discussion, make sure you have a sound basis for your salary expectations, not just what you'd like to make, or what your friend who's been doing HR for almost ten years makes at a big for-profit corporation. Be candid in your responses, but realistic. They've given you a salary range, and maybe they have a little wiggle room above that but it may not be much. Think about other forms of compensation you'd be willing to take instead, such as more vacation time. Another possibility, if there's a gap between what they're willing to pay and what you'd like to make, is to ask for a salary review in six months, once they've seen how you perform and what you have to offer.

I concur that you can't bring up salary and you need to focus on how you will benefit the organization. I do not agree that you can continue trying to negotiate unless you are willing to walk away from this job. If you get an offer which is lower than what you want, you need to thank them for trying to get to your range and then either accept or decline the job.

Now isn't the time to negotiate, but if they ask her directly about whether she'd be willing to take the job in the stated hiring range, OP needs to have an answer ready, even if it's something non-committal like, "I value the work Food for Every Child does to combat hunger in the community and would love to be part of the your team so I'm open to negotiating a package in that salary range." It reaffirms OP's interest in the organization itself, doesn't completely roll over on the salary issue and signals that she's open to other ways of improving the compensation that the organization might have more flexibility to provide.

Anonymous wrote:I thought it was classic to not divulge salary history if possible. In other threads people would chastise OP for sharing it. NP.

If you can get around it smoothly, then sure, do that. For instance, instead of simply declining to answer the question and asking for the hiring range, OP could have stated, "The salary range I'm looking for now is $X-$Y. What is the hiring range for the position?" It doesn't directly answer the question but doesn't just refuse, and if they really want to know they can follow up. Some employers will insist on having the information, though, and if they're being insistent, refusing to divulge the information without good cause (e.g., your previous employer had a policy of salary confidentiality) may be a mark against you.

Anonymous wrote:I thought it was classic to not divulge salary history if possible. In other threads people would chastise OP for sharing it. NP.

That is what I thought although I know they could have gotten that information thru my references.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here:

Update! The employer wants to set up a call about my "questions" and where they are in the interview process. What should I say to let them know that I am yet interested in the job and to reduce the damage I've done going forward/redeem myself?

Don't bring up salary further for now unless they do. Focus instead on your interest not just in the job, but in the organization and its mission. Nonprofits know they can't pay as well and for-profit, so they're looking for people who have an interest in the purpose of the organization so that the satisfaction they get from being part of it will make up for the lower salary.

To prepare for salary discussion, make sure you have a sound basis for your salary expectations, not just what you'd like to make, or what your friend who's been doing HR for almost ten years makes at a big for-profit corporation. Be candid in your responses, but realistic. They've given you a salary range, and maybe they have a little wiggle room above that but it may not be much. Think about other forms of compensation you'd be willing to take instead, such as more vacation time. Another possibility, if there's a gap between what they're willing to pay and what you'd like to make, is to ask for a salary review in six months, once they've seen how you perform and what you have to offer.

I concur that you can't bring up salary and you need to focus on how you will benefit the organization. I do not agree that you can continue trying to negotiate unless you are willing to walk away from this job. If you get an offer which is lower than what you want, you need to thank them for trying to get to your range and then either accept or decline the job.

Anonymous wrote:OP here:

Update! The employer wants to set up a call about my "questions" and where they are in the interview process. What should I say to let them know that I am yet interested in the job and to reduce the damage I've done going forward/redeem myself?

Don't bring up salary further for now unless they do. Focus instead on your interest not just in the job, but in the organization and its mission. Nonprofits know they can't pay as well and for-profit, so they're looking for people who have an interest in the purpose of the organization so that the satisfaction they get from being part of it will make up for the lower salary.

To prepare for salary discussion, make sure you have a sound basis for your salary expectations, not just what you'd like to make, or what your friend who's been doing HR for almost ten years makes at a big for-profit corporation. Be candid in your responses, but realistic. They've given you a salary range, and maybe they have a little wiggle room above that but it may not be much. Think about other forms of compensation you'd be willing to take instead, such as more vacation time. Another possibility, if there's a gap between what they're willing to pay and what you'd like to make, is to ask for a salary review in six months, once they've seen how you perform and what you have to offer.

I thought it was classic to not divulge salary history if possible. In other threads people would chastise OP for sharing it. NP.

OP here:

Update! The employer wants to set up a call about my "questions" and where they are in the interview process. What should I say to let them know that I am yet interested in the job and to reduce the damage I've done going forward/redeem myself?

Anonymous wrote:OP here:

Thank you for your feedback. I understand that what I was asking for was way above my previous salary but I have read articles about negotiating so in an attempt to try to do that I may have put myself in a hole. I did state that I would be open to negotiation. I did not expect to have a "deal or no deal situation", this is technically my 2nd job. I would be willing to take the job for the experience and yes it would be an increase in salary compared to what I was making. You live and learn I suppose.

Unfortunately negotiating too hard can backfire, especially when you're sufficiently young/junior enough that you're largely interchangeable with a whole bunch of other applicants rather than an experienced person whose particular expertise they need. This is especially true when you do it at the beginning of the interview process rather than once you have an offer in hand. When you're at the beginning of the process, the prospective employer typically has very little invested in you, so it's easy to move on to another candidate if it seems like you'll be difficult to work with or if they think your bottom-line salary requirement will be more than they can pay. If you wait until you have an offer from them, you're in a much stronger position to negotiate because they've already put the effort into interviewing you, meeting to discuss candidates and decide to whom to extend an offer, their back-up candidates might have already moved on by the time you might turn down their offer, etc.

An employer is going to know that you're likely expecting to make more in your next job than in your prior one (although since you've had an extended period of unemployment, you're in a much weaker position here), so there's nothing shocking about a candidate asking for more in the new position. If I were you, I would have been upfront about my salary history and then asked for the position's salary range in the same communication, as a signal that I'm not just going to take whatever I'm offered and I'm deciding whether it's worth it for me to move forward as much as them. Once I had my offer in hand, that's when I would have pushed for a higher salary or other compensation.

I also agree with the others that your salary expectations seem too high, especially for a nonprofit. What kind of data did you find to support your expectation of mid-50s, given your experience level?

Anonymous wrote:I received a call last week from the employer stating they want to move forward with me. They ask my salary history and for my references. I decline my salary history and instead ask for their hiring range. She states she'd like to know my salary history again so that they won't pay me less than my previous employer. The problem is that I was making mid 40s at my last employer and I want to make ideally in the 60s but bottom line 55. I state I'd prefer to know the range. She agrees and says she'll get back to me. I get an email stating the hiring range is 46-52 and to state my requirements.

I thank her for the information and state I'm looking for 59 (doubt they'd give this but if we can negotiate to 55-57, perfect). She states she'll speak to director and get to me next week. This was last Thursday and it is now Wednesday and I'm feeling extremely anxious. I reached out on Monday to follow up and she basically snapped back, "What is there to discuss, I'll get back to you after I speak to the director". This came off as unprofessional and rude imo.

I am in desperate need of a job, I have been unemployed for 6 months. I have a masters degree but if its not for a position related then I leave it off for fear of being "overqualified". I am late 20s, female, DC metro area, background 5 years admin/2 hr. This position was at a non profit and in HR if that matters.

Advice needed!!

Stop being a pain in the ass. You played coy with your salary history, then came back with a request for an unattainable salary above the range. You were told they'd get back to you next week, and you called on Monday to bug them. They don't want to hire you anymore. Negotiation is fine, but you're just playing stupid games. Next time, share your salary history, ask for a higher salary, and explain why you think you deserve it.

Anonymous wrote:OP here:

Thank you for your feedback. I understand that what I was asking for was way above my previous salary but I have read articles about negotiating so in an attempt to try to do that I may have put myself in a hole. I did state that I would be open to negotiation. I did not expect to have a "deal or no deal situation", this is technically my 2nd job. I would be willing to take the job for the experience and yes it would be an increase in salary compared to what I was making. You live and learn I suppose.

Yikes OP. I don't know what articles you are reading but I think you need to read some better sources. Negotiating is all well and good but you shot for a 20-30% raise when a) you are currently unemployed b) were already told the salary range and knew your ask was substantially out of that range and c) didn't seem to provide much justification for such a big leap. Also, following up Monday when you had just interacted on Thursday (and had likely already pissed off the hiring manager with your salary ask) and it all adds up to you've been wildly unrealistic in your negotiating attempts.

Even your "minimum" of 55k when you were previously making mid 40s and are currently out of work is unrealistic. I think you need to go back to the drawing board on your expectations and realize you aren't likely going to be able to make the salary leap you're hoping for in a single bound.

FWIW, my go to for workplace advice is Ask a Manager (www.askamanager.org), she's an actual hiring manager and gives really good advice. She has a lot of info on negotiating salary and dealing with requests for salary history when you don't want to give them.

Anonymous wrote:OP here:

Thank you for your feedback. I understand that what I was asking for was way above my previous salary but I have read articles about negotiating so in an attempt to try to do that I may have put myself in a hole. I did state that I would be open to negotiation. I did not expect to have a "deal or no deal situation", this is technically my 2nd job. I would be willing to take the job for the experience and yes it would be an increase in salary compared to what I was making. You live and learn I suppose.

And will those articles give you a pay check?

My experience -- i am 2x your age -- is those guidelines only apply when you are not desperate. If you are employed, it is much easier to negotiate.

Another way to look at this: if you are working on some types of contracts (e.g, T & M), the company gets a labor rate. You are only profitable if youare within that rate. For example, I am working on a program where the company loses $30 /HR for every hour I work. (it is one of my projects). The gov't pays the company 240/hr, but with my salary, OH, and everything else, the company typicially bills my time at at 290/hr (cost + 7% profit; cost is about 2.85xmy salary).

If you price yourself such that you are not be profitable, you will remain unemployed.

Assuming the work is gov't contract, you need to understand the business....if the project is CPFF company will be more flexible....if it is T &M, you need to fit in their rate. Fix price, they make more if they pay you less.

To negotiate you need to understand how they make the money to pay your salary.

OP, you need to rethink your negotiation skills if that is what you believe you were doing in this interaction. You threw out a salary that is high for the position, especially in a non-profit, didn't answer their requests about your salary history, and didn't justify at all why you warrant a higher price tag. You didn't even seem to ask about the rest of the compensation package to at least compare overall packages from prior employment to this offer. And the position you are looking for is in HR! Even your response just now reeks of entitlement.

They've already went back and forth with you once and, was up front and honest with you about their range, yet you one-upped them by asking for 7k more.

Assuming this is a relatively entry/junior level position (which it appears to be the case given the relatively low salary), they've probably moved on to people who actually meets their range (assuming people with your skillset is a dime a dozen).

So exactly, where is there to discuss unless you say you're accepting their max 52k offer? Joke's on you.