Anonymous wrote:. Our DD is a 14, and I think the 14 pool is stronger than the older pools overall.

Just so I know how much weight to give to the rest of your post, could you explain why you think the U14 pool at your daughter's DA is stronger than the other age groups in that DA, other than the fact that your daughter is in that group? You don't have to even state which DA it is. But your statement is throwing me off because at 3 of the DAs, the U14 don't have the best record, and at the 4th DA, the U14s are tied for best record but have a much worse goal differential. Or are you saying that across all of the area DAs, more talent has moved into the U14 age group than has migrated to the older groups?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "kick and run" style of play is where a kid boots the ball down the field and teammates run on to it and try to score. It's the opposite of possession style soccer, where players control the ball and move it down the field by passing, dribbling, taking on players one on one. At younger ages, teams with big athletic kids can appear to dominate by employing kick and run, where smaller, more skillful teams may continually lose. Over time, the kids with foot skills and the teams that have honed a good possession style of play will emerge as the stronger players/teams.

Yeah, I've been told this a million times, too, but I'm starting to wonder if the possession teams just start winning in the long run because the kick-and-run athletes move on to other sports.

USMNT are kick and run. How are they doing on the International stage?

When they're able to diversify their game a bit, pretty well. When they're not (see WWC semifinal vs. Germany in 2003), less well.

They crashed out of the 2016 Olympics because they just didn't have a lot of attacking ideas to break down a bunkering team. Funny how Pia Sundhage anticipated that.

I don't know if this is just recent scheduling additions to my cable tv lineup (it was on fox sports), but I've been able to watch a bit of womens college soccer.

Last night I watched the 10/1 TCU vs Texas Tech (big 12) women's match, it was very windy and it showed, but there was a lot of attempts at possession style, but there was still a lot of unforced errors via unconnected passes. It was also clear when individual speed and size matchups were a mismatch, so the couple of foot races to the goal were "exciting". I don't think speed & size will or should disappear from teams if it works (why would you handicap yourselves). Unfortunately there must have been a goal (final 1-0) after my recording stopped since I saw only until the last couple minutes and it was still 0-0 then. http://www.ncaa.com/news/soccer-women/article/2017-09-30/womens-soccer-no-8-texas-battles-past-texas-tech-double

However, as wrong or right as it may be to make the comparison, I also watched the first half of the recent Man City v Chelsea match right after and the appearance of the value of connected passes was significant. Tangentially, I had read/heard an analysis that one thing, of the many things, that differentiate Marta from other players at that level is her ability to connect passes. Clearly pace of the ball and first touches are significant. I didn't see that well displayed at the DA game I watched, lots of poor passes that led to defense stepping in and disrupting play which I think was caused by a lack of stretching the defense. I know these girls are young, but I've watched some girls do great build passing from u8 and on depending on the team. I've seen it in u8 rec, u8 rec tournaments, travel league play and tournaments. And I am not so sure I can blame the training/coach when it doesn't happen. I've seen coaches pull their hair out/ stomp on their cap when girls can't apply the concepts in game play. Maybe it's the lack of game confidence, don't want to make a mistake so play suffers.

Anonymous wrote:to the OP, we are a couple years from USGDA, but I can tell you already that we have no interest in ECNL, with its cost and travel, just to be able to play soccer in HS, or because a college scout may attend. if DD is an elite player in 2 years and wants to commit to that future, then it will be trying out for the team that all the best girls (at her club, and nearby clubs) are interested in. From premature conversations, that looks like it would be DA from other parents with 1st team girls, but we will have to wait and c. If DD is that great, then colleges will still take notice of the DA plat and she can sacrifice HS ball as some choice to pursue her highest level and ability. If not elite and just a good 1st team player in 2 years, then a non-ECNL travel team sounds better to us and then she could enjoy HS ball and no worry about college soccer. That is the divide. Doing ECNL as some costly middle ground with the players that don't make DA sounds like a real bad idea. glad we have two years.

This poster gets it.

to the OP, we are a couple years from USGDA, but I can tell you already that we have no interest in ECNL, with its cost and travel, just to be able to play soccer in HS, or because a college scout may attend. if DD is an elite player in 2 years and wants to commit to that future, then it will be trying out for the team that all the best girls (at her club, and nearby clubs) are interested in. From premature conversations, that looks like it would be DA from other parents with 1st team girls, but we will have to wait and c. If DD is that great, then colleges will still take notice of the DA plat and she can sacrifice HS ball as some choice to pursue her highest level and ability. If not elite and just a good 1st team player in 2 years, then a non-ECNL travel team sounds better to us and then she could enjoy HS ball and no worry about college soccer. That is the divide. Doing ECNL as some costly middle ground with the players that don't make DA sounds like a real bad idea. glad we have two years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To get back to the topic of girls teams in the local area: From our experience, the DA training has been stellar, and the 4th night is focused on either fitness or game intelligence. Both of which the girls can really use. Our DD is a 14, and I think the 14 pool is stronger than the older pools overall. So I think the younger years will be even stronger as they move into the system. ECNL has been great for the girls game, particularly by consolidating college-bound talent, but I do think it's good for US Soccer to be filling that space so that there's less likelihood to default to athleticism and kick-and-run in the games. So far, kick and run is not at all what the DA coaches are teaching my daughter's team (even if it is what some teams collapse into at this point given past training). It will take time to gel, but I bet the DA teams look far better to the casual watching in late spring than they do now. And one of the best parts about the DA overall is that they have focused on filling the senior ranks and the talent identification roles with experienced *women.* I love that for our daughters.

The DA training sounds right on, hopefully the girls have the capacity to digest and apply when it counts. into their 6th game soon, i would have hoped that these top girls were easier to gel earlier since they are clearly more attuned to what success could mean, and playing "selfishly" or in cliques doesn't help anyone develop in training or in games.

In a year i'd hope that all girls progress, regardless of team, league, etc. I was checking out the CCL and NPL standings since they are almost on to their 8th league game and have had some tournaments. looks fairly lopsided with the final scores and overall results. it really does make me wonder what good comes of having CCL and NPL separate. if you claim you want to do the best for a kids development, then i would think you need to not only train with the "best" but also "play with the best". clearly multi-goal (sometimes double digit) to zero or one, over a many game period indicates a mismatch in opponents. club bragging rights, and let's be realistic they do mean something to club recruiting and likely future successes, mean essentially nothing if you aren't playing competitively appropriate teams.

why the two leagues? it cant be all about money because the clubs probably see little difference as to who they are paying league fees, field conditions have been all over the place, so what keeps the best from wanting to play the best in league play?

The two leagues existed because of ECNL. ECNL/NPL are under the U.S. Club soccer banner. CCL is under the USYS banner and both presented entirely different pathways. ECNL worked pretty well with the ability to move kids back and forth between ECNL and NPL as the players needed. It worked as a decent pyramid system and NPL knew its role as a feeder league. CCL demands the clubs A team where as NPL did not. While it would be good to merge the two I just don't see either organization giving up just yet the way WAGS eventually did.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:do you feel that there is a significant difference between kick & run and the through ball at half field that turns everything into a foot race? i feel like those are looked at very differently but rely on similar concepts that are not possession and speed of play. both are basically foot races in the end.

those are different, kick and run usually means that on the first touch that a defender or midfielder take, the ball is going forward/long, high, as hard as they can behind the defensive line without any thought of looking for other options or who it's going to, just that someone on your team will try to get to it. A through ball is an intentional pass to a specific target running into a specific area to break down the defensive line or take advantage of gaps. Usually played on the ground and is usually created by ball movement through possession (passing/dribbling) where you are moving the defensive line to exploit gaps/splits on the field. Through balls can be played in multiple directions (forward/diagonal/sideways). Yes there is a BIG difference.

meant first touch or thought

Anonymous wrote:do you feel that there is a significant difference between kick & run and the through ball at half field that turns everything into a foot race? i feel like those are looked at very differently but rely on similar concepts that are not possession and speed of play. both are basically foot races in the end.

those are different, kick and run usually means that on the first touch that a defender or midfielder take, the ball is going forward/long, high, as hard as they can behind the defensive line without any thought of looking for other options or who it's going to, just that someone on your team will try to get to it. A through ball is an intentional pass to a specific target running into a specific area to break down the defensive line or take advantage of gaps. Usually played on the ground and is usually created by ball movement through possession (passing/dribbling) where you are moving the defensive line to exploit gaps/splits on the field. Through balls can be played in multiple directions (forward/diagonal/sideways). Yes there is a BIG difference.

Anonymous wrote:To get back to the topic of girls teams in the local area: From our experience, the DA training has been stellar, and the 4th night is focused on either fitness or game intelligence. Both of which the girls can really use. Our DD is a 14, and I think the 14 pool is stronger than the older pools overall. So I think the younger years will be even stronger as they move into the system. ECNL has been great for the girls game, particularly by consolidating college-bound talent, but I do think it's good for US Soccer to be filling that space so that there's less likelihood to default to athleticism and kick-and-run in the games. So far, kick and run is not at all what the DA coaches are teaching my daughter's team (even if it is what some teams collapse into at this point given past training). It will take time to gel, but I bet the DA teams look far better to the casual watching in late spring than they do now. And one of the best parts about the DA overall is that they have focused on filling the senior ranks and the talent identification roles with experienced *women.* I love that for our daughters.

The DA training sounds right on, hopefully the girls have the capacity to digest and apply when it counts. into their 6th game soon, i would have hoped that these top girls were easier to gel earlier since they are clearly more attuned to what success could mean, and playing "selfishly" or in cliques doesn't help anyone develop in training or in games.

In a year i'd hope that all girls progress, regardless of team, league, etc. I was checking out the CCL and NPL standings since they are almost on to their 8th league game and have had some tournaments. looks fairly lopsided with the final scores and overall results. it really does make me wonder what good comes of having CCL and NPL separate. if you claim you want to do the best for a kids development, then i would think you need to not only train with the "best" but also "play with the best". clearly multi-goal (sometimes double digit) to zero or one, over a many game period indicates a mismatch in opponents. club bragging rights, and let's be realistic they do mean something to club recruiting and likely future successes, mean essentially nothing if you aren't playing competitively appropriate teams.

why the two leagues? it cant be all about money because the clubs probably see little difference as to who they are paying league fees, field conditions have been all over the place, so what keeps the best from wanting to play the best in league play?

do you feel that there is a significant difference between kick & run and the through ball at half field that turns everything into a foot race? i feel like those are looked at very differently but rely on similar concepts that are not possession and speed of play. both are basically foot races in the end.

To get back to the topic of girls teams in the local area: From our experience, the DA training has been stellar, and the 4th night is focused on either fitness or game intelligence. Both of which the girls can really use. Our DD is a 14, and I think the 14 pool is stronger than the older pools overall. So I think the younger years will be even stronger as they move into the system. ECNL has been great for the girls game, particularly by consolidating college-bound talent, but I do think it's good for US Soccer to be filling that space so that there's less likelihood to default to athleticism and kick-and-run in the games. So far, kick and run is not at all what the DA coaches are teaching my daughter's team (even if it is what some teams collapse into at this point given past training). It will take time to gel, but I bet the DA teams look far better to the casual watching in late spring than they do now. And one of the best parts about the DA overall is that they have focused on filling the senior ranks and the talent identification roles with experienced *women.* I love that for our daughters.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "kick and run" style of play is where a kid boots the ball down the field and teammates run on to it and try to score. It's the opposite of possession style soccer, where players control the ball and move it down the field by passing, dribbling, taking on players one on one. At younger ages, teams with big athletic kids can appear to dominate by employing kick and run, where smaller, more skillful teams may continually lose. Over time, the kids with foot skills and the teams that have honed a good possession style of play will emerge as the stronger players/teams.

Yeah, I've been told this a million times, too, but I'm starting to wonder if the possession teams just start winning in the long run because the kick-and-run athletes move on to other sports.

Kick and run works! It’s just not that hard to learn so not worth developing in youth. Plus, kick and run can be negated by teams with athletes in defense, which are two reasons that teams that rely on this and kids who only learn it are at a disadvantage long term. But sure, it works, until it doesn’t.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "kick and run" style of play is where a kid boots the ball down the field and teammates run on to it and try to score. It's the opposite of possession style soccer, where players control the ball and move it down the field by passing, dribbling, taking on players one on one. At younger ages, teams with big athletic kids can appear to dominate by employing kick and run, where smaller, more skillful teams may continually lose. Over time, the kids with foot skills and the teams that have honed a good possession style of play will emerge as the stronger players/teams.

Yeah, I've been told this a million times, too, but I'm starting to wonder if the possession teams just start winning in the long run because the kick-and-run athletes move on to other sports.

not PP, even if you are possession style, gotta finish. we've all seen games that are complete possesion and opportunities domination, but can see a kick and run goal against for the loss.

i'm not sure i've seen the possession style as the prevailing style yet. The games i am able to see online from u18? boys (BRYC) national title to both male and female NCAA finals (last year) iirc weren't won by possession style goals.

It's at a severe minority's/almost non-existent in the US. Since none of the big clubs or even club DAs are playing possession (or the correct way), the kick and run prevails in the elite leagues and colleges. It's generally small, lesser know Clubs playing possession.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "kick and run" style of play is where a kid boots the ball down the field and teammates run on to it and try to score. It's the opposite of possession style soccer, where players control the ball and move it down the field by passing, dribbling, taking on players one on one. At younger ages, teams with big athletic kids can appear to dominate by employing kick and run, where smaller, more skillful teams may continually lose. Over time, the kids with foot skills and the teams that have honed a good possession style of play will emerge as the stronger players/teams.

Yeah, I've been told this a million times, too, but I'm starting to wonder if the possession teams just start winning in the long run because the kick-and-run athletes move on to other sports.

not PP, even if you are possession style, gotta finish. we've all seen games that are complete possesion and opportunities domination, but can see a kick and run goal against for the loss.

i'm not sure i've seen the possession style as the prevailing style yet. The games i am able to see online from u18? boys (BRYC) national title to both male and female NCAA finals (last year) iirc weren't won by possession style goals.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "kick and run" style of play is where a kid boots the ball down the field and teammates run on to it and try to score. It's the opposite of possession style soccer, where players control the ball and move it down the field by passing, dribbling, taking on players one on one. At younger ages, teams with big athletic kids can appear to dominate by employing kick and run, where smaller, more skillful teams may continually lose. Over time, the kids with foot skills and the teams that have honed a good possession style of play will emerge as the stronger players/teams.

Yeah, I've been told this a million times, too, but I'm starting to wonder if the possession teams just start winning in the long run because the kick-and-run athletes move on to other sports.

USMNT are kick and run. How are they doing on the International stage?